Star Citizen Discussion Thread v11
- Thread starter Sir.Tj
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No you wont. You wont get the chance.
It sounds like something I'd expect a hunchback wearing a blood-soaked apron to say to me in an Eastern European castle.
![[VR] Merkir](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/141/141091.jpg?1553527154){kind=avatar}
I've never commented on an SC combat vid before, but with that last one I came to a realisation...
In ED, players fire at ships. In SC, players fire at little white circles.
In ED, players fire at ships. In SC, players fire at little white circles.
While our dear Sovapid is almost certainly enjoying themselves - the footage is about as exciting as a happy meal.
Served cold.
A month after purchase.
Served cold.
A month after purchase.
I've PvP'd. Found it a bit boring though.
I never PVP'd. Not my cup of tea.
I've been griefed once during a cargo hauling community goal. (no, it was not PVP as I was shot dead right out of supercruise when I reached a station )Wasn't fun for me, I guess it was as fun as tier-0 Elite mining for him.
If SC comes to fruition one day, before I die of old age, I won't play for PVP aspect.
I've been griefed once during a cargo hauling community goal. (no, it was not PVP as I was shot dead right out of supercruise when I reached a station )Wasn't fun for me, I guess it was as fun as tier-0 Elite mining for him.
If SC comes to fruition one day, before I die of old age, I won't play for PVP aspect.
I have. I've participated in a few pre-Horizons tournaments and done a bit of actual piracy. I also occasionally enjoy baiting murder-hobos into playing the "Let's see how many times you'll interdict me on the way to my destination before you give up in frustration," game. Record was seven before I got bored with it.
PvP in Elite suffers the same inherent flaw that every "freeform" PvP game I've ever played: asymmetrical PvP is the norm. In order for PvP to be fun for most people, it needs to be symmetrical: a rough parity between both sides of a conflict. There are some people who enjoy being at a disadvantage, pushing their skills to the limit, and of course there's the GIFTED who only enjoy PvP when its biased in their favor, but for most people PvP is only fun when the outcome is in doubt.
Players more inclined towards PvP, but desiring symmetrical PvP, are therefore forced to adhere closely to the current meta, which in most games means grinding a lot. Not the "I had to do something I don't enjoy more than once, ever" style grind, or the "it take a while to accomplish my goals in a game I enjoy playing" style grind, but actual grinding: repeating the same activity over and over and over again, for dozens of hours, in order to gain a 0.1% build advantage... only to repeat the process again when the developer makes a change that disrupts the current meta.
Combine that with PvP in Elite inflicting session-long times to kill meta-PvP ships, the poor returns on PvP piracy, being counter-productive in defensive BGS work and, in my opinion, an unproductive diversion in Powerplay, and you get what you describe: PvP being "a bit boring" for most people.
I see no indication that there's anything novel about Star Citizen that will overcome that inherent flaw. Then it tosses pay-to-win into the mix.
Pretty much it. I enjoy PvP when i know everyone is on the same level in terms of what the game gives them. Its why when you have different types of heroes in PvP they need to be balanced well and a slight imbalance results in most playing the same meta heroes and tends to upset the community because when you want skill to be the deciding factor its rubbish when unbalanced heroes/cars/factions/whatever ruin it. Its also why such games tend to get constant patches balancing things.
This is what the PvP community pushed for with ED a few times, resulting in a number of changes, some of which were not appreciated by the PvE community, becauese they actually liked things the way they were. The PvP community pushed for further changes, which fortunately (for the PvE community) FD declined to implement.
To keep this post relevant to SC, its going to be interesting in the long run how CIG will handle this sort of thing. They have already made it pay to win, but they could put effort into balancing things, and since there are no modes, no private servers, no PvE slider, its going to favour the "git gud" crowd, who certainly won't care about getting bounties and stuff if it means they can get their jollies on blowing up harmless targets in trade ships, etc.
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Viajero
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Edit (think I got the poll the other way round): Does not raises hand
Re the assymetrical vs symmetrical discussion, I think that reducing the pvp discussion to the actual confrontation event is a bit narrow in the case of Elite. Elite has the depth and width to ensure the required symmetry goes beyond that and over to the meta. One of the best parts of strong PvP games like for example EVE is also all your actions prior and leading to that pvp encounter. Making and preparing your moves so you force your opponents to an assymetric confrontation event (where you have the better ship/gear/position etc) is also part of the PvP game too. And in there (beyond a certain number of played hours) the playing field is much more levelled.
The part I fully agree with you though is the one about Elite not currently having a very strong incentive to do PvP. It is all on a voluntary/consensual basis at the moment. I personally would like if there were more direct incentives for it, like multipliers for BGS or PP progress for playing in open, and the like. But that is a discussion for a different part of the forum!
Re SC, also agree, there is still nothing at the moment along those lines in that regard.
I have. I've participated in a few pre-Horizons tournaments and done a bit of actual piracy. I also occasionally enjoy baiting murder-hobos into playing the "Let's see how many times you'll interdict me on the way to my destination before you give up in frustration," game. Record was seven before I got bored with it.
PvP in Elite suffers the same inherent flaw that every "freeform" PvP game I've ever played: asymmetrical PvP is the norm. In order for PvP to be fun for most people, it needs to be symmetrical: a rough parity between both sides of a conflict. There are some people who enjoy being at a disadvantage, pushing their skills to the limit, and of course there's the GIFTED who only enjoy PvP when its biased in their favor, but for most people PvP is only fun when the outcome is in doubt.
Players more inclined towards PvP, but desiring symmetrical PvP, are therefore forced to adhere closely to the current meta, which in most games means grinding a lot. Not the "I had to do something I don't enjoy more than once, ever" style grind, or the "it take a while to accomplish my goals in a game I enjoy playing" style grind, but actual grinding: repeating the same activity over and over and over again, for dozens of hours, in order to gain a 0.1% build advantage... only to repeat the process again when the developer makes a change that disrupts the current meta.
Combine that with PvP in Elite inflicting session-long times to kill meta-PvP ships, the poor returns on PvP piracy, being counter-productive in defensive BGS work and, in my opinion, an unproductive diversion in Powerplay, and you get what you describe: PvP being "a bit boring" for most people.
I see no indication that there's anything novel about Star Citizen that will overcome that inherent flaw. Then it tosses pay-to-win into the mix.
Re the assymetrical vs symmetrical discussion, I think that reducing the pvp discussion to the actual confrontation event is a bit narrow in the case of Elite. Elite has the depth and width to ensure the required symmetry goes beyond that and over to the meta. One of the best parts of strong PvP games like for example EVE is also all your actions prior and leading to that pvp encounter. Making and preparing your moves so you force your opponents to an assymetric confrontation event (where you have the better ship/gear/position etc) is also part of the PvP game too. And in there (beyond a certain number of played hours) the playing field is much more levelled.
The part I fully agree with you though is the one about Elite not currently having a very strong incentive to do PvP. It is all on a voluntary/consensual basis at the moment. I personally would like if there were more direct incentives for it, like multipliers for BGS or PP progress for playing in open, and the like. But that is a discussion for a different part of the forum!
Re SC, also agree, there is still nothing at the moment along those lines in that regard.
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I once took on Harry Potter’s Clipper in an SRV. Hear me roar!
But yeah, I’ve only dabbled with PvP in Open, and only in ways that embraced the asymmetric aspect, IE: Blockade running in a T6 and trying to survive interdictions / mass carnage in 2-sided combat CGs etc / the occasional scrap with a kill-stealing pirate who’d gone too far in some anarchic asteroids...
My stats say I’ve got 500hrs in Arena though! And that’s because it’s zero-grind, zero-loss, straight up action
My non-pro take on SC combat is it just seems really ranged. I’ve got no problem with the leading weapons and projectile speeds etc, but when it’s reduced to reticule tracking at those distances, with the odd lancing pass etc, it doesn’t look like the most compelling take on spaceship clash. If they’re going to use the UFO-style uni-directional flexibility you’d think you should be all up in each other’s faces and turret buzzing around each other more.
But yeah, I’ve only dabbled with PvP in Open, and only in ways that embraced the asymmetric aspect, IE: Blockade running in a T6 and trying to survive interdictions / mass carnage in 2-sided combat CGs etc / the occasional scrap with a kill-stealing pirate who’d gone too far in some anarchic asteroids...
My stats say I’ve got 500hrs in Arena though! And that’s because it’s zero-grind, zero-loss, straight up action
My non-pro take on SC combat is it just seems really ranged. I’ve got no problem with the leading weapons and projectile speeds etc, but when it’s reduced to reticule tracking at those distances, with the odd lancing pass etc, it doesn’t look like the most compelling take on spaceship clash. If they’re going to use the UFO-style uni-directional flexibility you’d think you should be all up in each other’s faces and turret buzzing around each other more.
How big is the download?
Not counting griefing/ganking (where you're not really fighting, you're dead within few seconds), I've PvPed exactly... once. Got interdicted, got told to draw or die, so I fought for a bit, the enemy stopped at few % of my health, complimented my fight and left. And it was more enjoyable than SC fighting, from what I could try in free flight.
E: Also forgot I have a rank in CQC, yeah, but don't consider that main Elite.
Depends how many times it messes up and needs a redownload
But 60gb currently. Which should be stored on your SSD. For performance reasons...
Yeah, my fiancé is apparently not a fan of that ship HUD... She glanced over while I was watching the video and apparently got 80s vibes: "oh, it looks like old Elite! ... better old Elite?"
The combat definitely looked fairly underwhelming compared to the fights I've experienced playing ED... but then I typically wasn't going up against the min-maxed boom-and-zoomers, more often your average pirate or murderhobo. I guess at the moment SC is generally going to be a bit more binary - kitted for and interested in PVP, or... not.
I've dabbled now and then, not seriously though - no big wing fights. I hung out in the GCI Discord server for a little while and the level of chat rapidly reminded me why I tend not to get involved in such places.
Huh, that's smaller than I anticipated. As for SSD, everything is SSD for me these days.Depends how many times it messes up and needs a redownload
But 60gb currently. Which should be stored on your SSD. For performance reasons...
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