Engineers Why is Engineering result random and not a fixed result you would expect from an Expert?

Christian-A-Hill

Christian-A-Hill
As I have been enough Engineering lately, it got me wander, Why the an expert such as Engineer cannot provide a fixed result upgrade instead of random outcome?

If I go to a Professional expert, I would expect he/she will produce best result without doubt, specially If I AM the one bringing all the materials needed for that modification. Anybody know the logic behind it?

Seriously, I do not mind the mat gathering (grinding) as I take it as just gameplay. But it is annoying the heck out of me hearing from all the so called 'Engineers', "I cannot promise best result, please roll the dice".
 

Christian-A-Hill

Christian-A-Hill
The reason it feels like random to me, while engineering the same module type multiple times to same grade, I find that sometimes I need to click more rolls to reach certain %.

For example, when I was engineering 2 HRPs to grade 4, I needed to click 5 times for HRP #1 to reach 100% while it took 8 times for HRP #2 to reach 99%, still not 100%. Same thing happened to other modules as well. Sometime takes more mats sometimes less and I could not figure out the pattern.
 

SciTrekker

SciTrekker
The fixed result you desire is a fully Grade 5 engineered module.

Everything prior to that is based on (in no particular order): how much caffeine the RNGineer has had, the humidity level in the RNGineer shop, how many mats are in your inventory for the RNGineering being applied, is there a cat involved, and if it's T.J.'s fault or not. /s :LOL::ROFLMAO::p
 

muroko

muroko
why does it cost the same to engineer a 1E module and an 8A module?

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Christian-A-Hill

Christian-A-Hill
Para Handy said:
... and yet some people carried out literally hundreds of rolls per modification to get the "god roll" results. Crazy. :eek:
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That is my point. I am only in ED for last 5 months so do not have point of reference how old system uses to be. But I see now. I am the one working hard to gather mats, I am the one running around from engineer to engineer so why still it is designed not to be fixed to keep it realistic? I know the whole ED Galaxy is made up but still it is simulation. I play this because I like all the micro details of the game. Just wandered if my suspicion of randomness was real. I will still of course engineer things, but to me the system is little immersion breaker. I don't mind the grind, nor the hard work, just give me exactly what I am requesting and paying the engineer for. May be along with gathered mats a fixed amount of lump sump Credit to compensate the engineer would be better design.
 

Para Handy

Para Handy
Christian-A-Hill said:
That is my point.............. just give me exactly what I am requesting and paying the engineer for. .
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You are missing the point totally. In the current system you take a finite number of actions to achieve the maximum possible result for that recipe, you even get to chose the precise experimental enhancements that you want. Sure it is annoying that the last tiny gap in the grade 5 modification requires yet another "roll" but I have never seen a grade 5 take more than 9 attempts to complete and usually it is 6 or 7. Your complaint has no validity.

Look in the engineering part of the manual linked from your launcher - then come back and change your post to being thankful for the current system.

Watch these and weep:


 
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Christian-A-Hill

Christian-A-Hill
Para Handy said:
Look in the engineering part of the manual linked from your launcher - then come back and change your post to being thankful for the current system.
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I am afraid you have misunderstood my sentiment and reason of this post. No way it was intended as rant or complaint. I love ED as space simulation and all the things it allows me to tinker with which No Man's Sky did not quite cut it. I am playing ED for total immersiveness of simulated space and trying to learn as much as possible about the task I do in it.
As you have noticed from my post I do not mind the gathering materials requirement at all even if FD decides to double the requirement you will not hear a peep from me. All I am saying is I believe it will add to the realism if the engineer provided service based on fixed roll. You have also mentioned that it may require up to 9 rolls or avg 6/7 rolls. Why not fixed N numbers per grade for example?

ED is literally the only game of its kind which gives an average space loving person a chance to see the star with lots of real world mechanics. There are lot of things to be thankful about and even more posts with complaints. This post is not one of them.
 
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Madrax573

Madrax573
Well if you want to compare it to 'real' engineering just look at adding turbo's to car engines for example...

You get the same two engines and the same two turbo's and bolt them up in the same way you will get two different results from the match up...
Which is why when building up a drag/race car you often try a few different combinations to see which gives you the best upgrade before you start tweaking said setup...

Same goes for suspension systems, exhausts systems and even simple lighting options... It's all down to the tolerances of said componentry and how they line up with the tolerances of the married components, any mechanical sympathy and how they are installed/connected etc...

As an engineer it is a total PITA sometimes to get the right components to give you the results you want....

ED may simplify it somewhat but that is a general gist of it..... as well as the gameyfying to use up some of the resources in game.
 

EdzUp

EdzUp
OP I wondered the same myself a fully repaired ship should give the same result or near enough. What was suggested back in the day was the engineer gives you a report on what the upgrade would be with certain materials. That way you can see and choose what you want to get to.
 

GeoJase

GeoJase
I like to think that the minor randomness comes down to the quality of your materials.

Me: "Hey Engineer, I've got those Shield Emitters you need to crank up my Power Plant"
Eng: "Well those ES's you got from mission rewards will do fine, but those ones you scavenged ship wreckage have hairline fractures so they will only work at 90%. Expect some randomness buddy"
Me: "Fine, just armour that PP already!"
 

Maolagin

M
GeoJase said:
I like to think that the minor randomness comes down to the quality of your materials.

Me: "Hey Engineer, I've got those Shield Emitters you need to crank up my Power Plant"
Eng: "Well those ES's you got from mission rewards will do fine, but those ones you scavenged ship wreckage have hairline fractures so they will only work at 90%. Expect some randomness buddy"
Me: "Fine, just armour that PP already!"
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This is my thinking too. Especially when dealing with manufactured mats you blasted off a pirate, it seems like consistency of the inputs could be an issue.

As far as Engineer Logic goes, the one that puzzles me is the fact that as I improve my standing with an engineer, they get better at performing the lower-grade mods. E.g. when you've just unlocked Farseer, expect to take 3-4 rolls to max out the G3 level. Now that I'm max rep with her, it usually pops to mostly complete on the first try. Why? She serves thousands of pilots, it can't be that she's getting better in real time!

But I get the logic from a gameplay/balance/progression/whatever perspective, so I shrug and move on.
 

Northpin

Northpin
Christian-A-Hill said:
As I have been enough Engineering lately, it got me wander, Why the an expert such as Engineer cannot provide a fixed result upgrade instead of random outcome?
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It's not an exact science.
Engineering is rather experimental, so the outcome is more or less random and requires a lot or retries for the higher grade modifications.
 
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