AI and the punishment system is in desperate need of re-tuning/ work.

[Damian WOlfe]

Hey FDevs, I really wan't to continue to enjoy the game, but after the "punishment" revamps I've lost my type 10 twice to absolute in the last 2 days after returning from a long hiatus.

First time I winged a federal security forces bounty hunting and got a 200 cr. bounty on myself, went to pay it and just as I get through the mail slot on the station, fed security scans me, revokes landing clearance and I get blown to hell by the station 2 meters off the deck. Wasn't until after the fact that I found out you can find another system to pay the bounty off so whatever, I can live with that.

What is absolutely inexcusable though is the Second loss that happened just now, I was cleared to dock and was just entering the slot when another AI controlled ship tried to force its way passed and literally JAMMED ME IN THE DAMN AIRLOCK. I couldn't turn, couldn't reverse thrust, could not get unstuck because its a type 10 and it takes up the ENTIRE airlock. Then I get 30 seconds to clear it for "loitering" and am unable to go anywhere, so again I get blown to pieces. This isn't the first time I've had AI go full tilt in or out of the station and smash into me. Before I was in something small enough to escape getting stuck, but now its a real problem outside an annoying repair bill.

This garbage needs to be re-tuned, I'm sure I'm not the only one that's tired of being killed for stupid reasons and losing money, or worse, the ship they spent a ton of time grinding up to build.

 

[SMcA]

It is easier to learn to play by the rules than asking for them to be changed. FD does not change them often.

 

[FrogsFriend]

Unlucky, but all part of the risks inherent in the game.

A few points to note:
1. You can log off to escape destruction when jammed in the airlock.
2. A Type-10 will usually squeeze past anything in the airlock if you get right over to the side and angle yourself up or down by 30 degrees or so. Alternatively, try to take the hit right on the nose, which will allow you to then reverse out of the situation.
3. All ships entering and exiting can be seen on your radar, and as the only ship not part of the automated traffic control (unless using a docking computer) it's up to you to avoid running into them.
4. Rebuy will get back your ship, fitted out exactly as it was when destroyed (never fly without a rebuy, etc.)

 

[Terekhov]

I basically agree that there are a number of very common routine procedures that are not implemented and thought out as thoroughly as the could be.

Crime/Punishment is one. I'm still early in my ED gameplay, but the incident I recall here was when I was a lot greener.

I had what I now know to be a lucky escape when, in error, I briefly fired upon the wrong ship in combat. I broke off immediately (noting that I'd been issued with a fine for "assault", then noting that I was suddenly "Wanted". I immediately boosted out, and set super-cruise for the local station. Arrived, wes permitted docking, not scanned (phew!), landed, and immediately high-tailed it to the Authority contact to straighten things out...(additionally Starport services knew my status and most of it was locked out, as one would expect) I ended up spending the night in the cells and the AI lawyers sweet talked me out for just the payment of the 300cr fine.

It sounds as if, had I been scanned, I'd have been destroyed instead..

The inconsistencies here are:
1) I, a wanted vessel, was permitted landing (when the station systems knew about my poor standing)
2) Not being scanned (I didn't avoid or disrupt a scan or go in under stealth) got me a lighter punishment.
3) If what I did was that bad - why didn't the Authority contact shoot me on sight!!??? (I'm pleased he didn't).

What might have been better could have been..

[Request docking]​

Message from station: "Mike Charlie Kilo, Cleared to land on pad three-one where you will be met by Federal Security"​

[Pair of system authority vessels form up behind]​

Message from System Authority vessel: "Mike, Charlie, Kilo, proceed to dock in accordance with flight control instructions. Do not deploy weapons or attempt to flee"​

[System Authority vessels break off as you enter the mail-slot]​

[On touchdown, you receive the "hand yourself in" dialog]​

The OPs second misfortune is the conjunction of a number of shortcomings in these common procedures. The single most useful thing would be the assignment of positions in the approach queue (and a similar departure mechanism). As it is - with manual approach, you need to guess where you are in the queue.

A possible scenario for manual approach would be:

[Request docking]​

Message from station: "Mike Charlie Kilo, Access approved, expect to land on pad three-one."​

Message from station: "Mike Charlie Kilo, You are number three to land, hold short outside one point five kilometers"​

Message from station: "Mike Charlie Kilo, You are number two to land, hold short at five hundred meters"​

(When next in queue and nothing big coming the other way) Message from station: "Mike Charlie Kilo, Cleared to enter station and land - pad three-one" and sometimes "- expedite approach."​

in Addition, AR queue numbers would appear tagging other ships waiting to approach/depart.​

At the moment, If unsure, I (carefully!) follow closely another ship in. Whilst the scanner is useful, automated docking has other ships flying in faster than the 100m/s manual speed limit - very hard to judge.

 

[Stigbob]

Hey FDevs, I really wan't to continue to enjoy the game, but after the "punishment" revamps I've lost my type 10 twice to absolute in the last 2 days after returning from a long hiatus.

First time I winged a federal security forces bounty hunting and got a 200 cr. bounty on myself,

Don't shoot the friendlies.

went to pay it and just as I get through the mail slot on the station, fed security scans me, revokes landing clearance and I get blown to hell by the station 2 meters off the deck. Wasn't until after the fact that I found out you can find another system to pay the bounty off so whatever, I can live with that.

Drop a heat sink break the scan.

What is absolutely inexcusable though is the Second loss that happened just now, I was cleared to dock and was just entering the slot when another AI controlled ship tried to force its way passed and literally JAMMED ME IN THE DAMN AIRLOCK. I couldn't turn, couldn't reverse thrust, could not get unstuck because its a type 10 and it takes up the ENTIRE airlock. Then I get 30 seconds to clear it for "loitering" and am unable to go anywhere, so again I get blown to pieces. This isn't the first time I've had AI go full tilt in or out of the station and smash into me. Before I was in something small enough to escape getting stuck, but now its a real problem outside an annoying repair bill.

Have a look before entering the slot.

This garbage needs to be re-tuned, I'm sure I'm not the only one that's tired of being killed for stupid reasons and losing money, or worse, the ship they spent a ton of time grinding up to build.

You just need to pay a bit more attention to what's going on around you. Consider switching down from a type 10, with a smaller ship you can more easily evade and slink through gaps.

 

[Rick6549]

I basically agree that there are a number of very common routine procedures that are not implemented and thought out as thoroughly as the could be.

Crime/Punishment is one. I'm still early in my ED gameplay, but the incident I recall here was when I was a lot greener.

I had what I now know to be a lucky escape when, in error, I briefly fired upon the wrong ship in combat. I broke off immediately (noting that I'd been issued with a fine for "assault", then noting that I was suddenly "Wanted". I immediately boosted out, and set super-cruise for the local station. Arrived, wes permitted docking, not scanned (phew!), landed, and immediately high-tailed it to the Authority contact to straighten things out...(additionally Starport services knew my status and most of it was locked out, as one would expect) I ended up spending the night in the cells and the AI lawyers sweet talked me out for just the payment of the 300cr fine.

It sounds as if, had I been scanned, I'd have been destroyed instead..

The inconsistencies here are:
1) I, a wanted vessel, was permitted landing (when the station systems knew about my poor standing)
2) Not being scanned (I didn't avoid or disrupt a scan or go in under stealth) got me a lighter punishment.
3) If what I did was that bad - why didn't the Authority contact shoot me on sight!!??? (I'm pleased he didn't).

What might have been better could have been..

[Request docking]​

Message from station: "Mike Charlie Kilo, Cleared to land on pad three-one where you will be met by Federal Security"​

[Pair of system authority vessels form up behind]​

Message from System Authority vessel: "Mike, Charlie, Kilo, proceed to dock in accordance with flight control instructions. Do not deploy weapons or attempt to flee"​

[System Authority vessels break off as you enter the mail-slot]​

[On touchdown, you receive the "hand yourself in" dialog]​

The OPs second misfortune is the conjunction of a number of shortcomings in these common procedures. The single most useful thing would be the assignment of positions in the approach queue (and a similar departure mechanism). As it is - with manual approach, you need to guess where you are in the queue.

A possible scenario for manual approach would be:

[Request docking]​

Message from station: "Mike Charlie Kilo, Access approved, expect to land on pad three-one."​

Message from station: "Mike Charlie Kilo, You are number three to land, hold short outside one point five kilometers"​

Message from station: "Mike Charlie Kilo, You are number two to land, hold short at five hundred meters"​

(When next in queue and nothing big coming the other way) Message from station: "Mike Charlie Kilo, Cleared to enter station and land - pad three-one" and sometimes "- expedite approach."​

in Addition, AR queue numbers would appear tagging other ships waiting to approach/depart.​

At the moment, If unsure, I (carefully!) follow closely another ship in. Whilst the scanner is useful, automated docking has other ships flying in faster than the 100m/s manual speed limit - very hard to judge.

They dont know youre wanted, they know youre anonymous.

Also yeah lets make docking take forever with completely useless lines. If OP was paying attention he wouldnt have gotten stuck.

 

[Thatchinho]

I basically agree that there are a number of very common routine procedures that are not implemented and thought out as thoroughly as the could be.

Crime/Punishment is one. I'm still early in my ED gameplay, but the incident I recall here was when I was a lot greener.

I had what I now know to be a lucky escape when, in error, I briefly fired upon the wrong ship in combat. I broke off immediately (noting that I'd been issued with a fine for "assault", then noting that I was suddenly "Wanted". I immediately boosted out, and set super-cruise for the local station. Arrived, wes permitted docking, not scanned (phew!), landed, and immediately high-tailed it to the Authority contact to straighten things out...(additionally Starport services knew my status and most of it was locked out, as one would expect) I ended up spending the night in the cells and the AI lawyers sweet talked me out for just the payment of the 300cr fine.

It sounds as if, had I been scanned, I'd have been destroyed instead..

The inconsistencies here are:
1) I, a wanted vessel, was permitted landing (when the station systems knew about my poor standing)
2) Not being scanned (I didn't avoid or disrupt a scan or go in under stealth) got me a lighter punishment.
3) If what I did was that bad - why didn't the Authority contact shoot me on sight!!??? (I'm pleased he didn't).

What might have been better could have been..

[Request docking]​

Message from station: "Mike Charlie Kilo, Cleared to land on pad three-one where you will be met by Federal Security"​

[Pair of system authority vessels form up behind]​

Message from System Authority vessel: "Mike, Charlie, Kilo, proceed to dock in accordance with flight control instructions. Do not deploy weapons or attempt to flee"​

[System Authority vessels break off as you enter the mail-slot]​

[On touchdown, you receive the "hand yourself in" dialog]​

The OPs second misfortune is the conjunction of a number of shortcomings in these common procedures. The single most useful thing would be the assignment of positions in the approach queue (and a similar departure mechanism). As it is - with manual approach, you need to guess where you are in the queue.

A possible scenario for manual approach would be:

[Request docking]​

Message from station: "Mike Charlie Kilo, Access approved, expect to land on pad three-one."​

Message from station: "Mike Charlie Kilo, You are number three to land, hold short outside one point five kilometers"​

Message from station: "Mike Charlie Kilo, You are number two to land, hold short at five hundred meters"​

(When next in queue and nothing big coming the other way) Message from station: "Mike Charlie Kilo, Cleared to enter station and land - pad three-one" and sometimes "- expedite approach."​

in Addition, AR queue numbers would appear tagging other ships waiting to approach/depart.​

At the moment, If unsure, I (carefully!) follow closely another ship in. Whilst the scanner is useful, automated docking has other ships flying in faster than the 100m/s manual speed limit - very hard to judge.

Well, you see, you say you got a fine...

But did you really get a fine?

Or did you perhaps get a bounty put on you?...

(Let’s just clear up the key issue first.)

 

[SMcA]

Well, you see, you say you got a fine...

But did you really get a fine?

Or did you perhaps get a bounty put on you?...

(Let’s just clear up the key issue first.)

Looks like a bounty as it was for 300 Cr not the 200 Cr a fine gives you. Sometimes you will get a fine for a stray shot and before you can leave the area. Someone (NPC) will kill the ship and since you were involved you get the bounty as well.
Anyway being sent to goal is for bounties not fines.
Having said that, recently I know that I have hit a friendly ship but did not get fined. It keeps you on your toes. (Well it would if we had "space toes" )

 

[Thatchinho]

Looks like a bounty as it was for 300 Cr not the 200 Cr a fine gives you. Sometimes you will get a fine for a stray shot and before you can leave the area. Someone (NPC) will kill the ship and since you were involved you get the bounty as well.
Anyway being sent to goal is for bounties not fines.
Having said that, recently I know that I have hit a friendly ship but did not get fined. It keeps you on your toes. (Well it would if we had "space toes" )

Oh, it was more a rhetorical set of questions. I’m very clear on what happened. Just wanted them to have a look at it themselves, which will hopefully better equip them for the future!

 

[Vetinari]

Deploying landing gear somehow gives you a free zone so you can move when you get stuck. I usually deploy and stow and repeat quickly but not sure that's necessary. I think thats why in the tutorial it says to deploy landing gear before even entering the slot.

The one thing that does need looking at is the ease to get bounties from police ships running in front or trespass zones when defending installations or accidentally hitting them during same. Just a bit more leeway, it used to be worse I know so just needs a little bit more tweaking.

 

[SMcA]

Oh, it was more a rhetorical set of questions. I’m very clear on what happened. Just wanted them to have a look at it themselves, which will hopefully better equip them for the future!

I did look at your joining date so I assumed they were rhetorical.
I just like answering easy questions.

 

[SMcA]

Deploying landing gear somehow gives you a free zone so you can move when you get stuck. I usually deploy and stow and repeat quickly but not sure that's necessary. I think that's why in the tutorial it says to deploy landing gear before even entering the slot.

I did not know that. Thanks.

 

[Terekhov]

Well, you see, you say you got a fine...

But did you really get a fine?

Or did you perhaps get a bounty put on you?...

(Let’s just clear up the key issue first.)

Yes, it WAS a bounty, but I'm convinced the very first message used the word "fine". Then I realised that I was Wanted and (as I was in a res zone with security nearby, thought it was a good idea to scarper for survival, and didn't have the attention span to read the message trail again,

 

[SMcA]

Yes, it WAS a bounty, but I'm convinced the very first message used the word "fine". Then I realised that I was Wanted and (as I was in a res zone with security nearby, thought it was a good idea to scarper for survival, and didn't have the attention span to read the message trail again,

It would have said a fine at first and the bounty notification could have rolled up out of view on the RH notification screen.
I wish we could scroll on that screen.

 

[Terekhov]

....

Also yeah lets make docking take forever with completely useless lines. If OP was paying attention he wouldnt have gotten stuck.

steady on.... I didn't say 'shoot on sight' anyone who jumps the queue . Now I think about it 'though .......

I suppose that I'm used to flying RL circuits and so am used to a .... certain order in proceedings.... (and consistency in other pilot's actions). Anyway, with the exception of the second hold that I mentioned, the above (probably with the initial hold at 4km) is what happens with automatic approach. My second hold should actually speed up proceedings as the pilot will already have started the approach run, and after receiving clearance, the pilot will have a shorter transit time to the mailslot... If the precefing craft did not get delayed, the approaching pilot might just receive clearance to enter and land before reaching the final hold.

Some pilots will choose to comply, others to jump the queue... The point is that those choosing to fly by the book would have a proper framework to work to, rather than guesswork.

There is also a confusing mix of real flight information messages ("200m to touchdown", "warning - Landing gear not deployed" etc.) and meaningless canned ATC chatter. Quite often when performing a landing at a planetary base, I'm told to "Descend to flight level three zero zero". Now as flight levels are a pressure altitude referenced to a standard atmospheric pressure that's meaningless on an airless world....