General / Off-Topic The safest place

Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
Also been discussed earlier. In short: there are no guidelines as to what constitutes a COVID19 death, so different countries are labeling outcomes different. Also, some countries might spend more tests on 'diagnosis' the deceased whereas others use them differently. Finally, Germany has the highest number of ICU beds in Europe, so they have zero issues there.

very interesting. I’m not talking a pop at the Germans.

Ever considered that people are taking offence between the health services like you seem to be doing?
 

:)

pa

:)

I can’t find an answer in English. My very limited French language abi suggests I’m not going to?
 
i want to know what the Germans are doing. The infection to death rate is totally different to everyone else?

Syncreto showed that to me earlier, and oui, it is odd. No explanation from them so far.
We cannot say that it is artefactual because they have a very high number of tests run, because they have not run that high number. So pourquois? Je ne sais pas.

(Also not able to understand the question about offense between the health services, but perhaps another cmdr could help translate better?)
 
U.S. President Donald Trump, speaking at a news conference on Thursday, called on U.S. health regulators to expedite potential therapies such as Gilead Sciences Inc’s Remdesivir and the generic antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine, aimed at treating COVID-19.
 

Trumps medical advisor (can't remember his name) immediately walked back on it during the same press conference. Might not be quite as one sided as has been claimed.
 
Is hydroxychloroquine, or the Bayer Chloroquine being widely used in Germany?
Because we still cannot say why people there are doing exceptionally well... it would be really positive if this were the reason.

Trumps medical advisor (can't remember his name) immediately walked back on it during the same press conference. Might not be quite as one sided as has been claimed.

Well it isn't unusual for technical people to be more realistic about the limitations than the optimistic politicos. Especially for unproven therapies.
 
Syncreto showed that to me earlier, and oui, it is odd. No explanation from them so far.
We cannot say that it is artefactual because they have a very high number of tests run, because they have not run that high number. So pourquois? Je ne sais pas.

(Also not able to understand the question about offense between the health services, but perhaps another cmdr could help translate better?)

What is to translate? Italy, France, Spain; all have fantastic health care systems. They are struggling to cope.
 
pa
I can’t find an answer in English. My very limited French language abi suggests I’m not going to?

Syncreto showed that to me earlier, and oui, it is odd. No explanation from them so far.
We cannot say that it is artefactual because they have a very high number of tests run, because they have not run that high number. So pourquois? Je ne sais pas.

(Also not able to understand the question about offense between the health services, but perhaps another cmdr could help translate better?)

I used the Google translator with a copy paste text.

It may not be perfect but should help a little for understanding.

------

Coronavirus: the mystery of the low death toll in Germany

A large number of patients, but an extremely low mortality rate: the mystery remains regarding the German exception to the epidemic of the new coronavirus.

With officially 10,999 cases listed Thursday for 20 deaths, the fatality rate is established in the country at only 0.18%, against some 4% in China or Spain, 2.9% in France, even 8.3% in Italy.

"It's difficult to unravel (...) We have no real answer and it's probably a combination of different factors," admitted this week Richard Pebody, head of the World Health Organization (WHO). ).

Here are the main hypotheses put forward by the specialists.

- Best medical equipment

With 25,000 intensive care beds with respiratory assistance, Germany is particularly well equipped compared to its European neighbors. France has around 7,000 and Italy around 5,000.

Berlin also announced Wednesday to double this number in hospitals in the coming weeks.

Sick patients can so far be quickly followed and the country does not fear, in the immediate future, that its hospitals are saturated, as is the case for example in Italy or in the East of France.

However, this explanation does not seem significant enough to explain the difference in the number of deaths in the first weeks, when its European neighbors also mobilized their hospitals.

However, this point could weigh in the coming months if the crisis worsens.

- Early tests -

"We recognized the disease in our country very early on here: we are ahead in terms of diagnosis and detection," says Christian Drosten, director of the Institute of Virology at the Charity Hospital in Berlin.

This criterion, associated with the large territorial network of independent laboratories in Germany which as early as January - when the number of positive cases was still very low - began to test people, would have allowed doctors in the country to better diagnose the disease and to exclude in quarantine the cases most at risk.

These numerous laboratories increase screening capacity, estimated at around 12,000 per day by the Robert Koch Institute (IRK), which is piloting the fight against the epidemic.

Getting tested in Germany remains complicated but, according to experts, simpler than in other countries: the appearance of symptoms coupled with contact with a confirmed case or a person returning from a risk zone are enough.

- A young population affected -

"In Germany, more than 70% of the people who have been identified as infected so far are between 20 and 50 years old," said the president of the IRK.

The disease first spread mainly in a relatively young and healthy population, less aware of the risks of coronavirus because it was not the population most at risk.

Like the Scandinavians, the first infected Germans returned to the country after being infected during a ski trip in Italy or Austria.

However, this remains a sign that the epidemic is still in its infancy in Germany. With nearly 25% of its population aged over 60, according to the Statista Institute, the country fears that the number of its deaths will increase sharply in the coming days.

- Absence of post-mortem tests -

Another explanation, put forward in particular on the Italian side to understand the difference in mortality, is the absence in Germany of post-mortem coronavirus tests on deceased people.

"We do not consider post-mortem tests to be a decisive factor. We assume that patients are diagnosed before they die," defends AFP the IRK.

However, these tests are well performed in France for example.

Concretely, this means that when a person dies in quarantine at home and not in hospital, there is a good chance that his case does not go into the statistics, which was astonished Giovanni Maga, director from the Institute of Molecular Genetics of the National Research Council of Pavia (Italy) in an interview with Euronews.
 
Okay, I accept what you are saying. Native English speakers are horrible to each other. I’m sorry if I’m being a complete head but I’m really struggling with the poopoo that is happening with the virus.

[...]

What is to translate? Italy, France, Spain; all have fantastic health care systems. They are struggling to cope.

To be clear, I am not a native English speaker, so any issues could definitely be from my end! In any case, check this (and if this is indeed a reason for Germany's stats, that is great news for Jason and the USA! It is, unfortunately, not great news for the UK...):

Number of ICU beds per capita are almost 300% in Germany compared with either France or Italy. The quality of care is great in all three, but the capacity seems to be considerably higher in Germany. The main issue in Italy right now is not the quality, but simply the number of beds they have. Mortality simply went through the roof when they ran out of beds. :(
 
Last edited:
I used the Google translator with a copy paste text.

It may not be perfect but should help a little for understanding.

------

Coronavirus: the mystery of the low death toll in Germany

A large number of patients, but an extremely low mortality rate: the mystery remains regarding the German exception to the epidemic of the new coronavirus.

With officially 10,999 cases listed Thursday for 20 deaths, the fatality rate is established in the country at only 0.18%, against some 4% in China or Spain, 2.9% in France, even 8.3% in Italy.

"It's difficult to unravel (...) We have no real answer and it's probably a combination of different factors," admitted this week Richard Pebody, head of the World Health Organization (WHO). ).

Here are the main hypotheses put forward by the specialists.

- Best medical equipment

With 25,000 intensive care beds with respiratory assistance, Germany is particularly well equipped compared to its European neighbors. France has around 7,000 and Italy around 5,000.

Berlin also announced Wednesday to double this number in hospitals in the coming weeks.

Sick patients can so far be quickly followed and the country does not fear, in the immediate future, that its hospitals are saturated, as is the case for example in Italy or in the East of France.

However, this explanation does not seem significant enough to explain the difference in the number of deaths in the first weeks, when its European neighbors also mobilized their hospitals.

However, this point could weigh in the coming months if the crisis worsens.

- Early tests -

"We recognized the disease in our country very early on here: we are ahead in terms of diagnosis and detection," says Christian Drosten, director of the Institute of Virology at the Charity Hospital in Berlin.

This criterion, associated with the large territorial network of independent laboratories in Germany which as early as January - when the number of positive cases was still very low - began to test people, would have allowed doctors in the country to better diagnose the disease and to exclude in quarantine the cases most at risk.

These numerous laboratories increase screening capacity, estimated at around 12,000 per day by the Robert Koch Institute (IRK), which is piloting the fight against the epidemic.

Getting tested in Germany remains complicated but, according to experts, simpler than in other countries: the appearance of symptoms coupled with contact with a confirmed case or a person returning from a risk zone are enough.

- A young population affected -

"In Germany, more than 70% of the people who have been identified as infected so far are between 20 and 50 years old," said the president of the IRK.

The disease first spread mainly in a relatively young and healthy population, less aware of the risks of coronavirus because it was not the population most at risk.

Like the Scandinavians, the first infected Germans returned to the country after being infected during a ski trip in Italy or Austria.

However, this remains a sign that the epidemic is still in its infancy in Germany. With nearly 25% of its population aged over 60, according to the Statista Institute, the country fears that the number of its deaths will increase sharply in the coming days.

- Absence of post-mortem tests -

Another explanation, put forward in particular on the Italian side to understand the difference in mortality, is the absence in Germany of post-mortem coronavirus tests on deceased people.

"We do not consider post-mortem tests to be a decisive factor. We assume that patients are diagnosed before they die," defends AFP the IRK.

However, these tests are well performed in France for example.

Concretely, this means that when a person dies in quarantine at home and not in hospital, there is a good chance that his case does not go into the statistics, which was astonished Giovanni Maga, director from the Institute of Molecular Genetics of the National Research Council of Pavia (Italy) in an interview with Euronews.

Patrick; I have loads of respect for your country and its citizens because of you.
 
The quality of care is great in all three, but the capacity seems to be considerably higher in Germany. The main issue in Italy right now is not the quality, but simply the number of beds they have. Mortality simply went through the roof when they ran out of beds. :(

Quantity has a quality all it's own.
 
Quantity has a quality all it's own.

Heh, we're screwed in the Caribbean. Maybe 10 ICU beds per 1.5 million.
If containment fails...

Oh well. Need to find a treatment instead.
It would probably be possible to also slug the virus indirectly by messing with human protein synthesis machinery that the viral RNA takes over. You could slow it down with anything that blocks up ribosomes like Erythryomycin or Rapamycin, or even Tumeric/curcumin to some extent, but that is the SAME machine that makes our antibodies...

The same French study showed a synergistic effect of Zithromycin with the HOCQ. Zithro is same family as old time Erythromycin. Maybe that is the mechanism? Or maybe the Zithro was just killing off opportunistic bacterial co infections.

I had stopped the basic science research for the last 3 weeks because of the workload, but now I have the time to dig deeper.
 
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom