General / Off-Topic The safest place

Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
Bavaria is going quarantine and i am sure all germany will follow morrow ...

Nope . Here are some of the measures clarified so far :

From tonight 0:00 on

  • people can still go to work if not possible to work from home ;
  • for at least 14 days, hospitality is locked down . Only drive through, takeaway and home delivery possible ;
  • hair stylists/hardwars stores closed ;
and 2, 3 other things that are not really clear XD .

Mr. Söder EXPLICITLY said : "We are NOT locking down Bavaria, we are not locking in people. "

Sadly, as I mentioned in my lengthy post above, the chief reason(s) for this being, too many people, especially younger ones, STILL have no clue of the severity of the Situation, STILL do large gatherings/parties etc . Too many cafes and restaurants still packed with people, etc .

In other news, my town still no confirmed case . And THIS made me cry:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyDk9hEeinE


From today on, the Initiave asks everyone to sing the European Hymn "And die Freude" together, every day at 18:00 .
 
Last edited:
Well it was expected, actually I have expected something to occur the last 30 years. I’m just happy my children now are adults and I don’t need to worry because they are here with us and that’s what matters.
As we use more power, water my system need a bit of maintenance so I will get my morning schedule from mrs Lysan, water pressure is low, fix it, power cut in small medical cabin, fix it, repair fence at gate FIX IT, yes Mam I’m on it, AND GET OFF THE DAMCOMPUTER 👨‍💻🤠Yes MAM!

momma-1.jpg

It seems we married the same girl!
 
I consider myself pretty lucky to be facing this with a woman who I've always said (for 25 years in January) I'd want by my side when the zombie apocalypse finally happened. Now that the crisis of our generation really has come about I feel like all the pieces of my life, good decisions and bad, are finally all starting to lock into place.
 
I consider myself pretty lucky to be facing this with a woman who I've always said (for 25 years in January) I'd want by my side when the zombie apocalypse finally happened. Now that the crisis of our generation really has come about I feel like all the pieces of my life, good decisions and bad, are finally all starting to lock into place.
Those of us that have a solid spouse, a good house with a real garden and live in a place where public transport isn't a necessity are lucky. Home office is efficient and relaxing and even the weather is nice.
The local store has full shelves again, there are no lines and it even has self service check out.
If this is the crisis of our generation, I can't complain. I'm getting of easy.
I'm really glad I don't live in Oslo now. Small apartments, lots of people and high infection rate.
 
Those of us that have a solid spouse, a good house with a real garden and live in a place where public transport isn't a necessity are lucky. Home office is efficient and relaxing and even the weather is nice.
The local store has full shelves again, there are no lines and it even has self service check out.
If this is the crisis of our generation, I can't complain. I'm getting of easy.
I'm really glad I don't live in Oslo now. Small apartments, lots of people and high infection rate.
I can't imagine living in a big city in an apartment complex if this gets really bad. Actually I can imagine which is a big reason why i don't live that way. Here's a particularly relevant song that fits my mindset well enough:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cQNkIrg-Tk
 
My wife and I packed up the mini van a week ago and drove 8 hours to the Laurentian mountains (we have a little place at the end of a dirt road up there). We were well provisioned with a wide assortment of amazing cheeses, a variety of Quebec craft beer and some of Wine countries finest Pinot Grigio. We got snowed in for a couple of days, but since we weren't going anywhere anyway it didn't matter.
No internet other than tethering to my phone but there is only one spot in the cottage where the phone will work so we have been out of the loop for the past week.
Very therapeutic and possibly the best vacation we have ever taken.

If we didn't have to come back we would still be there.
 

Deleted member 38366

D
Local SitRep (Germany) :

Documented Infections in my town have tripled overnight, at this point I have to consider it a "zone orange". High Alert now needed, no more room for mistakes.
With more lockdowns (regional and nationwide) expected to go into effect within 48-72hrs, took the last opportunity to get a few things done.

Public alertness (based on observation and talking from safe distance) has increased very notably.
More and more people "get it" and makeshift decon/prevition measures are being put in place almost everywhere.

Most typical supplies entirely unavailable now, though, empty shelves everywhere. Whatever in demand and what the shops can still restock is being easily purchased 3x faster.

So with things getting "hot" here, preparing to hunker down... Did all I could to prepare, now time will have to tell how well I did.

Good Vid of a Scientist explaining the core issue (Exponential growth and the relation of "confirmed infected" vs "infected but they don't know it yet") :
 
Last edited by a moderator:
UK Pubs, bars, restaurant, theatres, cinema, gyms, leisure centres, night clubs to close from this evening till further notice.

They can still provide take away food and whatnot.

ETA also sounds like heavy duty financial support for business and employees - list too long to type up but at first listen sounds good
 
Last edited:
Italy reported in: almost 6000 new positives, 627 deaths in the past 24 hours. Deaths also seem underreported. As the mayor of one village said, they had four times more (+-170 Vs +-40) deaths compared with the same period last year, but of the 'additional deaths' only a quarter were officially COVID19. Actual deaths per day is likely considerably higher.

:(
 
Italy reported in: almost 6000 new positives, 627 deaths in the past 24 hours. Deaths also seem underreported. As the mayor of one village said, they had four times more (+-170 Vs +-40) deaths compared with the same period last year, but of the 'additional deaths' only a quarter were officially COVID19. Actual deaths per day is likely considerably higher.

:(
All the meaning of the words heard in recent days.

"Human tragedy", "Enemy of the humanity", "Tsunami" ect ...

:(
 
UK Pubs, bars, restaurant, theatres, cinema, gyms, leisure centres, night clubs to close from this evening till further notice.

They can still provide take away food and whatnot.

ETA also sounds like heavy duty financial support for business and employees - list too long to type up but at first listen sounds good

They'll cover 80% of the wages of employee's who have no work due to closedowns among quite a few other things. Good news but too late for three firms I know directly of so far this week.

The public have been asked to stop having Covid19 parties where they flout the advice just for fun and all get together which have become suddenly fashionable apparently.
 
They'll cover 80% of the wages of employee's who have no work due to closedowns among quite a few other things. Good news but too late for three firms I know directly of so far this week.

The public have been asked to stop having Covid19 parties where they flout the advice just for fun and all get together which have become suddenly fashionable apparently.

Yeah - I'm struggling to contain my contempt for that stupidity.

I try to make allowances because many of them are at the young "invincible" stage of life - the time when many do stupid things that they manage to survive more by luck than judgement. To be fair I have - at times - been that idiot in my youth.

But this is unprecedented in any of our life times - and I'm older than many on here.

Just look at Italy's figures today as posted above - look at that family dinner reported in the US a week or so ago - about 30 odd people - within just over a week - 3 dead - 4 in intensive care - the rest in quarantine. All from one contact...
 
Since the mystery about German numbers is unending ( it is confusing me, too ), I will try to give some answers, to the best of my knowledge .

There are a few very wrong bits of Information in that Article above .

Richard Pebody is not the Head of WHO .There is no Richard Pebody sitting on the Panel at WHO press briefings .

During the WHO press briefing on March 18th., Dr. Michael J. Ryan, Chief Executive of WHO Health emergency programme, asked about the huge discrepancy in deathrate between European countries said :"There are a number of factors explaining that, but certainly, one of them is testing . If you look at Germany[...]they have had a very agressive testing process[...]so the number of tests and the number of confirmed cases may be detecting more mild cases."

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wucieL5YxCs&t=1462s
Question at 23:10


Also, the first infected in German were NOT people coming back from Ski Trips in Italy or Austria . The first comfirmed infected in Germany was a person in Starnberg, Bavaria , at Jan 28th . He was an employee of the company Webasto, and the Story is he got infected attending a meeting in Germany with a colleague from China who, after having returned to China, has been tested positive . This was reported to Germany, so immediately, the people having had close contact to the chinese Webasto employee were "on the radar'" .


The day the infection ( 28th Jan ) was diagonsed , the man was quarantined in a hospital .Looking at various reports in the papers, it seems to be that in total, 4 Websato people had been infected . All those and their contacts had been traced, tested and diagonsed, and quarantined . One of those cases had infected his wife and 2 of his Kids...ofc, these have been quarantined, too . A total of 80 people have been isolated quickly because of their contact to the then infected, and Webasto shut down the facility where 1k people work a day after the first infection was diagnosed . Initially, they thought they would open up again after a few days...in the end, their shutdown lastet until Feb. 11th . 180 pepople had been tested ( contacttracing ) and it was thought that cluster was effectively shut down, the chain of infections broken ( ofc, there is not really a way to verify this... ) .



Afaik, there had been no new cases diagnosed and reported until Feb 26th, when a man in Heinsberg, North-Rhine-Westfalia was tested positive, with his wife also showing Symptoms . To decipher this story is a bit hard, so many mediareports on this, and some obviously not 100% correct . but this is what I consider what happened :

The county did shut down schools and kindergardens amongst other measures . Contacttracing and testing started immediately . By 2 days later, another 33 people had been tested positive in the county, which had been sent into home quarantine, while the first case and his wife were treated in a hospital . Patient 0 had not yet been identified . Contatcttracing had sent approx. 1.000 people in home quarantine in the county .




Sadly, it seems Heinsberg is where things got a bit out of control in Germany . There were reports that, due to the huge numbe of people having been sent into home Quarantine, it was not possible anymore to control whether everyone actually adheres to the regulations . There also were reports were doctors, and in one case even a Hospital, did not follow the guidelines and recomendations of the RKI ( Robert - Koch - Institute ) .


About here is the point where it would take pages and pages to give an accurate account of how things evolved, so I will focus back on how the numbers in Germany are coming to be .


I have not found yet a really good resource on how many people exactly Germany tested early on . What I know is that random testing did not happen really at the beginning, and even people who had Symptoms similar to CoViD - 19 were not tested on a whim . The guidelines were and are pretty strict . Symptoms + contact to a confirmed or suspected case, Symptoms + having recently been to a risk area, and 2 other conditions result in immediate testing . But by now, there are drive through test stations in some heavily affected Areas .

In terms if numbers, I do recall that 3 weeks ago, there was a number of approx. 35k tested per week reported . By last week, our capacity has reached over 130k per week, and the head of RKI said in a press conference he assumes that we are actually testing to the max of capacity . A bit unsatisfying that he did not know for sure, but I guess there is no way really for him to know for sure . It has also been said that we can still ramp up testing capacity by tapping for instance into the resources of the veterinarian Sector .

Then, there is the Issue of reporting . The RKI only reports cases having been reported to them by communal and/or state health administration electronically, and are only updating once per day . It has been admitted last week that the manual work involved is timeconsuming much, and some heavily affected areas do not report to RKI promptly 'cos of that . So for those Areas, the numbers of their health administration are more accurate than RKIs numbers.

In tems of deaths reported, I am pretty sure ONLY people having died to CoViD -19 are reported ( as opposed to people dieing and having been infetced with SARS - CoV -2 ) . Afaik, dead people are not tested for the Virus . Now, some people may think this amounts to cheating, or lieing . But honestly, I do not think so . I just think there is a pretty strict protocol in place to get accurate numbers . The same goes for people reported as recovered . Pretty strict protocol, dont recall details exactly .

When it comes to the reponse in Germany in general : It would amount to an enormous task to even try and create a comprehensive timeline and source it, simlpy because a LOT of things have been done, measuers inroduced all over the country, varying sometimes from city to city, county to county, according to their specific Situation . Reports of schools, kindergardens, universities, cinemas, theaters closing down, companies large and small sending their entire workforce home ( and in some cases also selfisolation/quarantine ) on the suspicion of an infection, or suspicion of having had contact to an infected person ( say where a testresult was still pending ) are numerous . These things happened on local lvl acc. the specific situation, often ahead of State or Nationwide regulations being put in place .


Unfortunately, while I think the initial response was bang on, and I really have good confidence in politics ( I never thought I would say that in my lifetime XD ) as well as rki and healthcare in general , the carelessness of the general public by now at least partially rendered the initial, good response ineffective . That beast is spreading really fast here now, and I sadly really think stupid and careless people messed this up .


But then: 25k ICU Beds in the Country . Efforts to ramp the capacity up underway for quite some time . Testing going on uninterruptedly, and afaik in growing numbers . The Situation regarding PPE is getting better and better due to the export ban ( which has been partialy lifted by now again already ) . Officials not at all being shy of drastic measures ( like Head of State in Bavaria, Mr. Söder, saying yesterday that, if it shows that the public is NOT able to adhere to the measures implented at the moment, he will not hesitate to call a Statewide curfew . ) .


I know we still are about 1, 2 days to go before we will get hit . But, I really think a lot of things have been done, and are done, really well here . To the best of my knowledge, Germany is the only European country that does ALL the things the WHO asks for : Testing ( more and more ), contacttracing ( yes, even with the hugely growing numbers, efforts are still going on to do that, as much as possible ), quaranteening and isolating . Problems seem to have arisen out of the isolating and quaranteening having been done on a "at home" basis, I think the WHO meant centralized isolation and quaranteening as has been done in China .


I think I could write some more stuff, but I need to get ready for the day . Final thought : imho, it really and simply comes down to testing . From the very first case in country at Jan.28th, Germany was on the ball in terms of testing, contacttracing, surveillance . Due to this, I think we simply have a more accurate picture of what is going on in terms of total# of infected . I think if countries like Sweden, UK, the USA and others were anywhere close to %age of population tested as Germany...there would be outright panic all over in those countries . Imho, they still fly mostly blind .

All the best. Stay safe everyone .

edit: typos, formatting

Pretty much the same info i read in some article in our press.
Main reasons being:
  • massive testing - up to 150k tests per week, (as per latest reports) - which yields a high number of confirmed cases and also a high number of people sent in isolation
  • demographics of the infected, vast majority being healthy adults between 18-65 yo - most of them showing light symptoms
  • the high numbers of intensive care beds and the high quality of medical care.
  • not at last, the way the deaths are counted and reported, also the fact that dead people are not tested. So if someone dies at home, they are not tested and the death might not be reported as covid related.

134_2012_2627_Fig1_HTML.gif


above graphic taken from here:
taken from here: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00134-012-2627-8
 
Just look at Italy's figures today as posted above - look at that family dinner reported in the US a week or so ago - about 30 odd people - within just over a week - 3 dead - 4 in intensive care - the rest in quarantine. All from one contact...

- one dude in his early sixties which returned from abroad at the end of the February, then participated to some company wide events on March 2nd, getting in contact with more than 100 coworkers, on 3rd he felt sick so went to hospital. They released him home the same day. Then on 5th he felt even worse and went back to the hospital. On 8th or 9th he was confirmed positive. The entire hospital was put on quarantine and after contacts with him more than 15 new cases emerged from this.
It's worth mentioning that in the hospital admission form he declared that he never left the country in the last 2 months. He has criminal charges filled against him now.

The dude i mentioned above managed to get 52 people confirmed covid-19 by now.
22 of them being Medical Personnel from the hospital he was admitted in and where he lied about the fact that he didn't left the country in the last 2 months.
At the time he was the confirmed covid patient #17
 
Social media is a bit worrying. I'm not on any, apart from Twitter for pic hosting, but my ex is showing me some of the stuff that's flying around, because it's 'funny'. Except its not funny anymore, because of the falsehoods being passed on and 'legitimised', it's disturbing. :(

The panic buying also seems to be getting worse, instead of calming down people seem to be latching onto new stuff to strip from the shops whilst still stripping the established panic commodities every time they restock.

Today it was fresh meat just rows of empty shelves.

The idiots will probably be blocking hospital beds with food poisoning soon since I doubt they read the best before dates or have any room left in their fridges.
 
The panic buying also seems to be getting worse, instead of calming down people seem to be latching onto new stuff to strip from the shops whilst still stripping the established panic commodities every time they restock.

Today it was fresh meat just rows of empty shelves.

The idiots will probably be blocking hospital beds with food poisoning soon since I doubt they read the best before dates or have any room left in their fridges.
Nipped out to my local mini Tesco a couple of hours ago, and this does seem to be the case, meat shelves stripped. Spar petrol/mart is a bit behind. Newsagent 50 yards away... fine, says he's having problems sourcing bog roll, otherwise no issues. But again, social media will soon sort that out.🤷‍♀️
 
Last edited:
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom