Which brings up a good point: if we all have to spend months indoors there are going to be some really serious negative health consequences on the diet & exercise front. Plus, the psychological impact of not being able to connect with Mother Earth
General / Off-Topic The safest place
- Thread starter Robin of Spiritwood
- Start date
- Status
The article that started this recent discussion here has been debunked, the criticisms has been accepted by the authors, they have acknowledged they were wrong and that is simply the reality of it. So before you guys continue with the conspiracy theories it is good everyone reading this understands that context. Beyond that everyone here is free to do with that as they want. I have little interest in arguing articles of faith, so belief whatever you want.
As for the rest of your post: if that is what you have learned from all the information being available to all of us, that is on you.
To your first point: that article was offered as "old news" and only mildly tangential to the point I speculated upon, which should have been obvious to anyone with an open mind.
To your second: at least some of us have learned it.
It is good to keep in mind that China is not North-Korea. They are not isolated from the rest of the world the way NK is. I worked at the electronic engineering department for a year, where most of the team were Chinese. They're all back in China now, and none of them experience 'their world burning down'. So far every time the CCP tries to suppress information they fail spectacularly, simply because the younger generation finds it trivially easy to bypass their internet walls. Is there a large error margin when it comes to Chinese stats? For sure. But anyone who beliefs China is burning down right now and the CCP somehow manages to completely shield that from the outside world is simply completely clueless as to how people live and communicate in China.
Of course China is not burning down, the same way no country in the world is burning down, because despite all the fear and apparatus, the number of deaths by coronavirus is still meaningless compared to the regular number of deaths by all other reasons. Even though we westerners love a good drama, the simple truth is that coronavirus is not the black plague.
Of course, we should do everything in our power to prevent as much deaths as we can possibly can, but no, we are not experiencing the apocalypse, and neither would China.
I have a treadmill and a set of weights at home, so I got the exercise covered. The treadmill is horribly boring, but it's better than nothing, even if you just walk for 15/20 minutes a day it's already much better than sitting down all day. As for diet, for now I can still order everything from major supermarkets to deliver at home, so I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.
Even my dogs were lucky, I have a walled backyard so they still get some entertainment as well while I can't (shouldn't) walk them outside. (btw if anyone here has dogs, my advice is to not let anyone pet them during this time, and also don't pet anyone else's dogs).
I do start to miss my weekend forest/mountain hikes though... but better get used to it, as I don't think this will be over in a couple of months...
But it is more than that. I am sick at home. I know four people right now who are sick at home. None of the Chinese folks I know know anyone sick around them. This suggests to me that at least the urban centers they live in are not currently effected in the same way it is over here. And over here it is still rather mild, all things considered. So it seems much more likely to me that the massively draconian (and make no mistake, having police and hazmat teams go door-to-door for forced temperature readings, dragging away entire families if even one member is suspected of showing a symptom is about as draconian and dystopian as it gets!) measures have (after three months!) squashed the outbreak to the point most of the industry is starting up again.
Right now Italy (and soon Spain) are the centers of the crisis. I wouldn't be surprised if two months from now Italy is rebooting their economy as well. Many forget that China has not only taken very decisive actions, they also have been doing it for months longer than we have.
But are you (or your mates) sick from this virus? You can be simply sick... it's spring in europe, it's cold, it's allergy and flu season... I on the other hand, don't know anyone who is sick (from the virus), neither in my neighbourhood or workplace. This doesn't particularly mean anything, it can be just coincidence.
Now that's some serious strenght of will!
I can't use a treadmill for more than 20, 30 minutes tops without collapsing of boredom (not even in a gym, I do all my exercise in nature).
Sure, that is possible. But if COVID19 would be a serious issue in their neck of the woods, they'd know about it. That's all I am saying. There can be some 'data massage' from the CCP, but there is a limit to it before we'd know about it from other sources. Like any massive bureaucracy, the CCP is not particularly good at being secretly evil.
As for me, they wont test unless you have to go to the hospital. My symptoms are sore throat, painful 'stabs' in the chest, shortness of breath (to the point I had moments where my vision blurred and I saw those black dots in my vision), bouts of fever, headaches and general fatique and weakness. Things are slowly improving now. It doesn't quite match flu (especially the breathing/stabbing pain) and it definitely does not match the common cold or allergies (which I dont have AFAIK). I am also never sick for three weeks with a normal common cold, or even the flu.So do I have it for sure? Can't say. But it would be my (and my physician's) first guess.
Last edited:
No, it is not the black plague. However, its effect on older populations is becoming somewhat staggering. 5,500 dead in Italy with 60,000 total infected in that country. This puts a massive additional strain on medical systems that are not well-equipped to begin with, particularly in remote regions. Now, consider how many deaths from this will simply go unreported in the infected slums of the world, which are already suffering from severe cleanliness issues. There's a reason India has further extended their lockdown by announcing suspension of all domestic flights beginning March 25. Buses and trains are already offline. This is the real, immediate concern; preventing a 3% worldwide mortality rate as rapidly and efficiently as possible, because most countries simply don't have the tools to tackle booming infection rates.
I can't believe the US is considering sending people back to work on Thursday. I really can't. Some of the comments online are unreal. "Just isolate control groups and let us all get back to work!" Really? What "control" group? Control groups are for experiments. I think you mean "risk group", Mr. Online Poster who thinks this is all a hoax designed to smear everyone's favorite politicians, and what exactly is that group? Obviously not you. But what if you get it and give it to someone who is at risk?
"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."
Some people just can't wrap their heads around that one.
People are remarkably selfish, as long as they're healthy and no one in their family dies from it, then they will ignore the crisis and try to downplay it. Never mind that others are suffering and dying, just as long as they can go about their usual routines. It's disgusting!
I do wonder as well how much of the "wash your hands" will stick after its over, because we might see a drop in seasonal flu and colds by people simply being better at hygiene.
Deleted member 38366
D
Careful though.... papers can be retracted for many reasons.
And the people discussing these matters weren't your average "facebook users" but experienced Scientists.
PS.
If a scientific paper is pulled within an extremely unusually short amount of time (not even enough for full analysis nor verification), you can be quite sure it was for "other reasons".
Well, they were quite quick on this one, weren't they? They had their reasons and I can quite well understand the motives. It's a red-hot topic with far-reaching political implications.
btw. the same happened after scientists created papers about a disastrous event many years ago. It was only years later we found out why - and that those papers were absolutely accurate at the time.
Last edited by a moderator:
Many aren't doing it now, so I doubt they'll do it after. I've never understood it personally, my parents drummed hygiene into me from a very early age, and I probably wash my hands more in a day than most do in a week!
I used to work as a hospital pharmacy technician, and do a lot of aseptic manufacturing. I find it funny how useful that training became
Regarding the last part of your comment (and I agree with everything you said) what is the disastrous event you refer to?
Or it is just really, really crappy science that makes such fundamental mistakes that there is no point in a further full analysis. This happens more often than you think, it just doesn't hit the news because most of it is boring and irrelevant to pretty much everyone. I've once been part of a peer review where I spend ten minutes, rather than the allotted six weeks, on the review. My review consisted of one sentence and one link. The paper was then withdrew by the authors.
Those folks probably submitted elsewhere hoping the next panel wouldn't catch it (spend too much money/time on it, have to publish it somewhere. sigh), but such lameness is not really possible when it hits major news outlets.
In general, people with zero scientific background or experience who reject peer-reviewed science ("well, what do those elitist eggheads know?!?!") but accept withdrawn reports ("Big Science is trying to keep the truth hidden!") are just looking for personal validation of their own believes. And that is going to happen a lot in the coming week as reality will contrast more and more with personal and political beliefs held by people. Some will show the strength of character and revise their opinions, others will descend to whatever flimsy conspiracy theory is needed to uphold their world view.
Last edited:
You'd none the less not be too surprised that some sections of Facebook and social media loonies have attacked people of Chinese origin in the streets thanks to that article...latest case in Glasgow where 2 Chinese restaurant workers were beaten unconscious outside their workplace.Really guys? This again?
Quick retraction of a faulty coronavirus paper was a good moment for science
The flawed #coronavirus paper was withdrawn before a single news outlet with any reach covered it, but not fast enough for critics of preprint servers, which publish studies without peer review.www.statnews.com
This paper was almost immediately retracted (note: it was not even published, it was a draft that was retracted) as it was horsecrap and everyone in the field was pointing it out the second it hit the news. I cannot spell it out any simpler than that. And for the future:
(emphasis not mine)
This is the kind of low-grade click-bait fear mongering that should be reserved for facebook and such social media where panicked aunts and uncles share the latest nonsense. We really don't need to spread conspiracy theories based on terrible 'science' that was never published and immediately debunked over a month ago.
Last edited:
- Status