General / Off-Topic The safest place

[Ian Skippy]

Is it possible to dispose of bodies by the million without the world noticing somehow?

It's not so much the 'disposing bodies' as much as 'removing from normal life' that is the issue. For example:

Chinese Tycoon Who Criticized Xi’s Response to Coronavirus Has Vanished (Published 2020)

Ren Zhiqiang appears to be the latest government critic silenced by the Communist Party as it cracks down on dissent over the epidemic.

www.nytimes.com

Now, we only hear about this individual because he is pretty influential so news worthy. But people notice when a friend disappears, and will spread the news. If 21 million (?) people disappear this news spreads like wildfire.

Something to consider: if you think 'communist ' China has the same level social security net as we have in Western Europe, think again. I am pretty sure Chinese-style lockdowns financially ruined endless numbers of Chinese citizens, and CCP is not the kind of government that cares much about such 'details' when it acts.

I anticipate a fair number will be kicked of their subscriptions in the US in total as well, three months from now. My estimate is half the effect (0.5*1.3%=+-2 million accounts) due to US relative wealth compared with China.

 

[Ian Skippy]

You can’t do anything without a phone in China so this is very odd if you ask me.

You can't pay for any subscription either without money, and you can't earn money during a military-enforced full lockdown in a restricted dictatorship.

 

[askavir]

In my country the top demographic for evading quarantine are the elders. A very large number of elders don't seem to be giving a damn and they're mostly the ones who keep roaming the streets disregarding the lockdown.

 

[AkenBosch]

The eggheads are coming up with different strategies for different countries, which was my earlier point. Which egghead's plan do you choose?

The eggheads are coming up with the very same strategy all over the world. Keep people away from each other, as much as possible. Not because science, but because scientific method. That they are listened at to various degree, or not listened at all, is pretty much dependent on the actual clowns in charge of decisions because voting/economic reasons, and is an entirely different can of worms.

 

[Alien]

While I'm not going to go out if I don't need to (I probably wouldn't have done anyway) and I won't intentionally do anything to spread the virus .... I'm not having ANYONE dictate to me whether I can or cannot leave my home.

 

[Ian Skippy]

The eggheads are coming up with the very same strategy all over the world. Keep people away from each other, as much as possible. Not because science, but because scientific method. That they are listened at to various degree, or not listened at all, is pretty much dependent on the actual clowns in charge of decisions because voting/economic reasons, and is an entirely different can of worms.

This. "Stay in your house, if you really have to go outside keep 6ft distance from others." It cannot possibly be any simpler than this. The "different strategies" are from politicians asking two very different question:"How many am I willing to sacrifice to the economy, and how will any of this hurt my election chances."

The first one will be answered by politicians, the second by the people.

 

[Stigbob]

While I'm not going to go out if I don't need to (I probably wouldn't have done anyway) and I won't intentionally do anything to spread the virus .... I'm not having ANYONE dictate to me whether I can or cannot leave my home.

That's why asking people doesn't work, you have to force the ones who don't know any better.

 

[Synkreto]

The eggheads are coming up with the very same strategy all over the world. Keep people away from each other, as much as possible. Not because science, but because scientific method. That they are listened at to various degree, or not listened at all, is pretty much dependent on the actual clowns in charge of decisions because voting/economic reasons, and is an entirely different can of worms.

To NOT go with the recommendations of WHO and everyone else ( even domestic Specialists ) serves exactly ONE purpose : to downplay the severity of the Problem . If you do not test, you report lower case numbers, lower death numbers . This is being done at the cost of lifes . There is no doubt about that .

 

[Ian Skippy]

It's mind-blowing. You have literally the top doctors in some countries calling for incredible precautions in order to prevent the addition of all these deaths to the already tragic early deaths of millions the world over - to prevent it from getting into every household and taking its toll, thus overwhelming medical systems - and some leaders are just very skeptical of all this because, you know, business must go on. Markets need to open and fall to new lows. People need to stop worrying and just risk it.

Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and as a member of the White House Coronavirus Task Force, said the following when asked about the constant barrage of nonsense, falsehoods and straight-up lies from a specific leader of a certain country (whom shall not be named for some here regard him as a religious figure that shall not be criticized on punishment of being accused of keeping score).

Yes, but what do you want me to do? I can't jump in front of the microphone and push him down. OK, he said it. Let's try and get it corrected for the next time.

It is insane. It is like a Spinal Tap version of the lovechild of The Onion and Idiocracy. And normally this would be funny, but this is actually real and the corpses are also very real. And at this point the emotions involved are a far cry from amusement...

 

[Synkreto]

This. "Stay in your house, if you really have to go outside keep 6ft distance from others." It cannot possibly be any simpler than this. The "different strategies" are from politicians asking two very different question:"How many am I willing to sacrifice to the economy, and how will any of this hurt my election chances."

The first one will be answered by politicians, the second by the people.

To think that this entire mess probably would not be HALF as bad if people folled the simplest Rules ( hygiene, distance ) is mindblowing . Just imagine you are one of the people yelling for months by now, simply being ignored and having to witness thousands of people dropping dead beacuse of it . How tf do these people even cope ?

 

[Ian Skippy]

And in other news, Philips is ringing the alarm bells. The Dutch megacorp that produces (among many other medical devices) respirators does so in two plants in the US. However, due to the 'Defense Act' it is not clear whether any produced respirators will be able to be shipped across the globe, or whether they will be confiscated by the US government. And this is not just a 'US vs the world' thing, because it gets worse: the required materials needed for the production are not made in the US, and these suppliers are obviously not very keen on sending what limited resources they themselves have to a company in a country unwilling to share. So a stand-off is looming during which no respirators will be made at all. They have been in talks with the WH, and hope to get this senseless hurdle cleared as soon as possible.

Great. Really ' great.

 

[Synkreto]

And in other news, Philips is ringing the alarm bells. The Dutch megacorp that produces (among many other medical devices) respirators does so in two plants in the US. However, due to the 'Defense Act' it is not clear whether any produced respirators will be able to be shipped across the globe, or whether they will be confiscated by the US government. And this is not just a 'US vs the world' thing, because it gets worse: the required materials needed for the production are not made in the US, and these suppliers are obviously not very keen on sending what limited resources they themselves have to a company in a country unwilling to share. So a stand-off is looming during which no respirators will be made at all.

Great. Really ' great.

To be fair: Germany had introduced an export ban on PPE about 3 weeks ago . This was done on the insight that the need fo that stuff would be HUGE within no time domestically . EU followed suit shortly after . The ban has only partially been lifted last week afaik, due to EU internal shipping problems arising XD .

If you listen to Gvnr. Cuomo describing the price spikes as well as individual US states actually having to outbid each other on the Market to get ANY kind of PPE supplies... it becomes understandeable that the US prioritizes domestic need . And to be honest, I can not find anything wrong with that . Even though the Situation you describe really is a mess XD .

 

[Ian Skippy]

The difference is that PPE is vastly easier to produce domestically than a Philips' respirator, which is a rather complex device that requires piles of resources, materials and components that neither the US nor EU can produce within their own borders. Nobody has all the pieces, we all have a few. You either cooperate or nobody gets anything.

 

[Synkreto]

The difference is that PPE is vastly easier to produce domestically than a Philips' respirator, which is a rather complex device that requires piles of resources, materials and components that neither the US nor EU can produce within their own borders. Nobody has all the pieces, we all have a few. You either cooperate or nobody gets anything.

I was the under the impression that respirators are products that fall under the "PPE" category .

 

[Ian Skippy]

I was the under the impression that respirators are products that fall under the "PPE" category .

PPE is personal protective equipment, so gloves and masks.

 

[Morbad]

And normally this would be funny, but this is actually real and the corpses are also very real. And at this point the emotions involved are a far cry from amusement...

The realities of death and hardship creeping ever closer to home aren't detracting from my amusement. Stuff like this is great satire. We have Leaders who have been placed on pedestals, all but openly trying to kill those who put them there, being defended to the last by these same fools who mistake their own sycophantry for loyalty or patriotism. I'm pretty damn jaded and cynical already, but I couldn't make this stuff up and had I seen it in non-comedy fiction before I saw it in reality, I would have dismissed it as a verisimilitude defying absurdity.

I was the under the impression that respirators are products that fall under the "PPE" category .

What sort of respirators are you talking about?

Ian seems to be refering to mechanical ventilators and you seem to be refering to wearable filtration devices...both of which can be called "respirators". The former is not personal protection equipment, but part of an ICU's treatment for respiratory failure.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Ian seems to be refering to mechanical ventilators [...].

Indeed.

The realities of death and hardship creeping ever closer to home aren't detracting from my amusement. Stuff like this is great satire. We have Leaders who have been placed on pedestals, all but openly trying to kill those who put them there, being defended to the last by these same fools who mistake their own sycophantry for loyalty or patriotism. I'm pretty damn jaded and cynical already, but I couldn't make this stuff up and had I seen it in non-comedy fiction before I saw it in reality, I would have dismissed it as a verisimilitude defying absurdity.

Trust me, I enjoy satire as much as the next guy and am pretty cynical in general. And maybe it is my background in clinical healthcare but the schadenfreude I sometimes experience when people are hoisted by their own petard is completely eradicated when the consequence is actual death. Dumb dingleberries being stuck with 2500 rolls of TP with the store refusing to take them back? Yeah, I'll laugh. People suffocating in the parking lot of a hospital because the beds are all filled and you weren't among the lucky picked by doctors? Not so much.

 

[Synkreto]

PPE is personal protective equipment, so gloves and masks.

Yeah, I know . I also just looked up Philipps product pages and now know what you meant . I guess theres just some general confusion in terminology ( even the CEO of 3m calls n95 PPE masks "respirators" ) :

3M CEO: 'Disappointing' to see N95 respirator masks at retail stores instead of hospitals

"We're trying to redirect everything to health-care workers," 3M CEO Mike Roman said.

www.cnbc.com

Terminology aside, interesting Article XD . Cuomo et al desperately trying to get that stuff on the world market...Target stocking supermarket shelves with it XD .

ps @Morbad &Ian : thanks for clarification, as written above, I understand .

pps: I am trying to get a reuseable halfmask, or even full mask, domestically for over 3 weeks now . First, shelves were stripped already, and most shops woud not sell to private customers at that point anyways and online did not ship to private customers . By now, I can get various masks....but the filters are not shipped to private customers XD .

 

[jasonbarron]

The eggheads are coming up with the very same strategy all over the world. Keep people away from each other, as much as possible. Not because science, but because scientific method. That they are listened at to various degree, or not listened at all, is pretty much dependent on the actual clowns in charge of decisions because voting/economic reasons, and is an entirely different can of worms.

You're thinking of direct transmission of the virus. I'm talking about the nation wide plans to deal with the spread, from start to finish. I've seen at least three different plans from various health organization for how best to handle the epidemic regarding promoting herd immunity, mitigation at certain speeds throughout society or trying to halt it completely. Each plan has significant pros and cons.

 

[jasonbarron]

Just scanned the last page or so of posts that came in while I slept. Good to see that the insults, condescension and America bashing is still cracking right along