General / Off-Topic The safest place

[Synkreto]

You dont get to be old on this planet unless you are considerably lucky . So, the older you get, the more you are defying the odds . I am willing to bet that a surprisingly high %age of old people wherever are very much aware of that fact .

I guess the choices for most of us come down to :

a) get it, and survive .
b) get it, need any kind of level of care, up to weeks in ICU, and survive ( likely being in need of ongoing care due to dmg. suffered )
c) b, but with "die" at the end .

a) means you become immune, which is actively helping ;
b) means you become a burden ;
c) means you are finally done with all this crap ;

So people make their choices .

I think its too easy to question mental facilities/capabilities of people based on their age/appearance . It is very much possible that many of those older people still roaming around are very much aware of what is going on, and made/make conscious choices . Probably, experience and wisdom gained tells many people that, in their Situation, it is preferrable to attack the Problem head on .

Would not be amazed if for some, it comes down to wanting to spend as much time as they still can walking freely, under the sun .

p.s.: If any elders in my families would still xist, I would not dare trying to prevent them from going out, if that is what they decided to do . They have prooven through their Lifes that they were perfectly capable of, overall, making the correct decisions when it comes to the wellbeing of the Family .

 

[Rubbernuke]

Well, I neveer thought I'd see this touted as actual policy in some places:

Its worrying govs are now trying to pull back from what works.

 

[Han_Zen]

in the uk, schools are closed.
But no they’re not.
they are still open for key workers kids- (and the key worker list is pretty big).
All the teachers I know feel they have no support from the gov. And no ppe.
How are other countries doing their school shutdown? Are they absolute? Or some kids still at school?
The other bit of news from uk, Nhs frontline doctors are threatening to quit because of no / substandard ppe.

Doctors threaten to quit NHS over shortage of protective kit

Call for NHS recruits to tackle Covid-19 pandemic undermined by lack of essential supplies

www.theguardian.com

I wonder why our PM feels these people can be cannon fodder?

We have the same system in Norway. About 10 of 400 kids in our local primary school are present. Older kids have to manage on their own.

 

[Patrick_68000]

You dont get to be old on this planet unless you are considerably lucky . So, the older you get, the more you are defying the odds . I am willing to bet that a surprisingly high %age of old people wherever are very much aware of that fact .

I guess the choices for most of us come down to :

a) get it, and survive .
b) get it, need any kind of level of care, up to weeks in ICU, and survive ( likely being in need of ongoing care due to dmg. suffered )
c) b, but with "die" at the end .

a) means you become immune, which is actively helping ;
b) means you become a burden ;
c) means you are finally done with all this crap ;

So people make their choices .

I think its too easy to question mental facilities/capabilities of people based on their age/appearance . It is very much possible that many of those older people still roaming around are very much aware of what is going on, and made/make conscious choices . Probably, experience and wisdom gained tells many people that, in their Situation, it is preferrable to attack the Problem head on .

Would not be amazed if for some, it comes down to wanting to spend as much time as they still can walking freely, under the sun .

p.s.: If any elders in my families would still xist, I would not dare trying to prevent them from going out, if that is what they decided to do . They have prooven through their Lifes that they were perfectly capable of, overall, making the correct decisions when it comes to the wellbeing of the Family .

Certainly many prefer to enjoy the sun and air until the last moment.

An old movie actor once said he’d rather not cure his cancer and let nature do things.

It does not want to be destroyed by chemotherapy and other treatments.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Currently the science council is briefing the government. After reducing testing we still recorded the largest increase in daily new cases yesterday; they looked at that data and just announced that to them it looks like they stopped the exponential increase and the measures are a success. Peculiar.

 

[ianw]

in the uk, schools are closed.
But no they’re not.
they are still open for key workers kids- (and the key worker list is pretty big).
All the teachers I know feel they have no support from the gov. And no ppe.
How are other countries doing their school shutdown? Are they absolute? Or some kids still at school?
The other bit of news from uk, Nhs frontline doctors are threatening to quit because of no / substandard ppe.

Doctors threaten to quit NHS over shortage of protective kit

Call for NHS recruits to tackle Covid-19 pandemic undermined by lack of essential supplies

www.theguardian.com

I wonder why our PM feels these people can be cannon fodder?

Govt reps keep saying the PPE stuff is being sorted but it seems to be taking too long. This has just blind sided everyone completely. Feel for those peeps that need it and feel exposed.

I know a guy that works with a few schools near to each other and they've managed to shut most and put all the key worker and other kids in one. Most of the staff are off so at least they're not cheek by jowl.

It makes me cringe when I see pictures of people on the tube stuffed into each others armpits..

 

[Synkreto]

In other news: Germany is putting a dent into the curve . In # of active cases around the 30k mark . Daily new cases is declining relative to our peak for 2 days now ( though we had the normalization effect on Monday due to limited reporting over the weekend ) .

March 25th, 11:25 am

Germany COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Germany Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

As of 25.3, 0:00 ( rki numbers, clinical data of about 25k cases )

median age of infected 45
median age of dead 81
male 55% female 45%

RKI head Prof.Dr. Wieler clearly says today : Can not say anything about when it would be feasible to dial back on containment measures ( literal question was "How much does the number of daily new cases need to go down for you to advise government to ease up on ( containment ) measures in good conscience ?" ):

Question at 27:42

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig0RNixsh30

 

[Stigbob]

Prince Charles has just tested positive for the virus.

 

[Wotthe Dickens]

Prince Charles has just tested positive for the virus.

I doubt that he’ll be triaged at the local over crowded Nhs hospital.

 

[ianw]

Being reported that an ICU nurse has killed herself at work with an overdose.

R.I.P.

 

[askavir]

You dont get to be old on this planet unless you are considerably lucky . So, the older you get, the more you are defying the odds . I am willing to bet that a surprisingly high %age of old people wherever are very much aware of that fact .

I guess the choices for most of us come down to :

a) get it, and survive .
b) get it, need any kind of level of care, up to weeks in ICU, and survive ( likely being in need of ongoing care due to dmg. suffered )
c) b, but with "die" at the end .

a) means you become immune, which is actively helping ;
b) means you become a burden ;
c) means you are finally done with all this crap ;

So people make their choices .

I think its too easy to question mental facilities/capabilities of people based on their age/appearance . It is very much possible that many of those older people still roaming around are very much aware of what is going on, and made/make conscious choices . Probably, experience and wisdom gained tells many people that, in their Situation, it is preferrable to attack the Problem head on .

Would not be amazed if for some, it comes down to wanting to spend as much time as they still can walking freely, under the sun .

p.s.: If any elders in my families would still xist, I would not dare trying to prevent them from going out, if that is what they decided to do . They have prooven through their Lifes that they were perfectly capable of, overall, making the correct decisions when it comes to the wellbeing of the Family .

So the elders are exempt from the responsibility of staying home to avoid spreading the virus because they're elders, while all the others are stuck at home, mostly to protect those same elders from getting the virus and suffocating to death waiting for a respirator to become available in some overcrowded hospital.

It's not just "their problem", while they keep roaming the streets they are helping the virus to spread to other people, thus becoming someone else's problem too, mainly other elders that haven't yet given up on life.

 

[Kloppage Time]

You dont get to be old on this planet unless you are considerably lucky . So, the older you get, the more you are defying the odds . I am willing to bet that a surprisingly high %age of old people wherever are very much aware of that fact .

I guess the choices for most of us come down to :

a) get it, and survive .
b) get it, need any kind of level of care, up to weeks in ICU, and survive ( likely being in need of ongoing care due to dmg. suffered )
c) b, but with "die" at the end .

a) means you become immune, which is actively helping ;
b) means you become a burden ;
c) means you are finally done with all this crap ;

So people make their choices .

I think its too easy to question mental facilities/capabilities of people based on their age/appearance . It is very much possible that many of those older people still roaming around are very much aware of what is going on, and made/make conscious choices . Probably, experience and wisdom gained tells many people that, in their Situation, it is preferrable to attack the Problem head on .

Would not be amazed if for some, it comes down to wanting to spend as much time as they still can walking freely, under the sun .

p.s.: If any elders in my families would still xist, I would not dare trying to prevent them from going out, if that is what they decided to do . They have prooven through their Lifes that they were perfectly capable of, overall, making the correct decisions when it comes to the wellbeing of the Family .

<Double facepalm>

Unfortunately, it's really not as simple as that in terms of personal decision-making - this solipsistic perspective is not an acceptable way to behave given the extant global health crisis! Older people can also pass on coronavirus to other people & as has been firmly established, even showing zero symptoms is no guarantee that one is not a carrier; recklessly flouting the medical advice is extremely irresponsible & for the record, one does not receive special dispensation just because one is entering one's twilight years!

I appreciate that English is not your first language (hopefully) & maybe I've just misinterpreted your stance!

I doubt that he’ll be triaged at the local over crowded Nhs hospital.

Private jet & Ferrari on standby to a Swiss private clinic - much like my own arrangements!

Prince Charles has just tested positive for the virus.

First question from the gathering media vultures: "When did he last see The Queen?"

 

[Synkreto]

So the elders are exempt from the responsibility of staying home to avoid spreading the virus because they're elders, while all the others are stuck at home, mostly to protect those same elders from getting the virus and suffocating to death waiting for a respirator to become available in some overcrowded hospital.

It's not just "their problem", while they keep roaming the streets they are helping the virus to spread to other people, thus becoming someone else's problem too, mainly other elders that haven't yet given up on life.

Look, I do not want to fight over this . I absolutely understand you, I really do . I just wanted to offer some considerations on this .

 

[askavir]

Look, I do not want to fight over this . I absolutely understand you, I really do . I just wanted to offer some considerations on this .

Neither do I. I'm a lover, not a fighter.

I do understand your view, I only disagree that, in the current circunstances, that could be a valid justification, although it can be an explanation for their apparent weird behaviour.

 

[Synkreto]

<Double facepalm>

Unfortunately, it's really not as simple as that in terms of personal decision-making - this solipsistic perspective is not an acceptable way to behave given the extant global health crisis! Older people can also pass on coronavirus to other people & as has been firmly established, even showing zero symptoms is no guarantee that one is not a carrier; recklessly flouting the medical advice is extremely irresponsible & for the record, one does not receive special dispensation just because one is entering one's twilight years!

I appreciate that English is not your first language (hopefully) & maybe I've just misinterpreted your stance!

[...]

You did, I do not have a stance on this . To me, behaviour ultimately comes down to personal decisions . And in light of the current crisis, I would be more than happy if we could count on EVERYONE taking the correct decisions for the wellbeing of themselves and everyone else . Admittedly rather hard to do in many regards, given there are so many unknowns still .

I simply wanted to offer some considerations on the topic .

Put yourself in the shoes of a 80+ old person, you know your time is coming anyways ( corona or not ), maybe you even have conditions increasing your risk . Now, you listen to WHO and other experts, and assume your chance to get it is somewhere between 60 and 80% anyways, and noone is able to tell you whether any medicine or vaccine is available when its your turn...or even enough hospital beds . You watch the media, and just as everyone else start getting the creeping feeling that quite a large portion of younger people do not care TF whether you are at risk of dieing . And just as well INCREASE YOUR risk of dieing . Would you rather attack the Problem, find out whether you are strong enough to get immune, or otherwise get sick and probably even die rather quickly ?

 

[Synkreto]

Neither do I. I'm a lover, not a fighter.

I do understand your view, I only disagree that, in the current circunstances, that could be a valid justification, although it can be an explanation for their apparent weird behaviour.

Glad you understand .

 

[Ian Skippy]

And after the science councils 'looking good!' summary, the spokesperson for the hospitals announced they expect ICU demand to be approximately 50% higher than what can be provided on April 1st. Bit of a downer, really.

 

[ianw]

And after the science councils 'looking good!' summary, the spokesperson for the hospitals announced they expect ICU demand to be approximately 50% higher than what can be provided on April 1st. Bit of a downer, really.

There seems to be a conflict here too.

Minister was getting the grilled this morning as to why non essential construction work was still being allowed to continue - which in London's case is contributing to the people jam on the tube.

He kept falling back on the scientific advice that it's okay on the site if the keep 2 meters apart completely ignoring what that does to journeys on the tube to get to site.

Meanwhile the mayor is suggesting there will be further tube service cuts as more tube drivers and support peeps are going off sick.

Spoiler

 

[Ian Skippy]

There seems to be a conflict here too.

Minister was getting the grilled this morning as to why non essential construction work was still being allowed to continue - which in London's case is contributing to the people jam on the tube.

He kept falling back on the scientific advice that it's okay on the site if the keep 2 meters apart completely ignoring what that does to journeys on the tube to get to site.

Meanwhile the mayor is suggesting there will be further tube service cuts as more tube drivers and support peeps are going off sick.

Spoiler

Same. Mate of mine is a Dutch construction worker. His girlfriend is a lung patient. They live in tiny appartment consisting of one bedroom and one small living room/kitchen. Still has to show up to work. It maddening. Absolutely maddening. Thankfully our virtually non-existent Belgium government has locked down all construction projects (barring emergency stuff) for the time being.

I still can't get over the press conference today.

Chief science advisor (CSA):"Our objective is to prevent ICU overload. Our models predict we dont need to do what everyone else is doing."
Foreign experts:"You guys need to do more, your ICU will be overloaded."
CSA:"Nah, we'll be fine."
Hospitals:"Our ICUs are becoming overburdened."
CSA:"Doing just peachy."
Hospitals (today):"We'll masively overload out ICUs within the week."
CSA (today):"Look how well we're doing, still early days but looking grand if I dare say so myself."

Like, what the heck?

 

[Stigbob]

There seems to be a conflict here too.

Minister was getting the grilled this morning as to why non essential construction work was still being allowed to continue - which in London's case is contributing to the people jam on the tube.

He kept falling back on the scientific advice that it's okay on the site if the keep 2 meters apart completely ignoring what that does to journeys on the tube to get to site.

Meanwhile the mayor is suggesting there will be further tube service cuts as more tube drivers and support peeps are going off sick.

Spoiler

He was already forced to clarify that he was wrong, but fell short of apologising for going directly against the governments own instructions.

You can't expect honesty or accuracy from a man like Gove, he was heavily involved in the dishonesty .