General / Off-Topic The safest place

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[VR] optimal_909

[VR] optimal_909
lysan said:
Oh don’t get me wrong, this is nothing compared to other things in our society, as I said, what will people do if something much more deadly occurred?
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Indeed, the current situation is a result of complacency, and is nowhere near to a real disaster. I think the world will come out of it stronger pretty soon - and hopefully will learn and spend more on health care.

Seriously, for example, in India this shouldn't make such a chaos. I mean, most of would probably take corona virus fairly well - but try to take a bath in the Ganges, we'd probably have a hard time afterwards. :)
 

Ian Skippy

Ian Skippy
Rubbernuke said:
True! But inside the EU you have the 'thrifty' group and the Dutch are firmly in this camp. Before CV19 there was disagreement over filling the Brexit void, and now the EU want govs to buy Eurobonds to support weaker EU economies- the Dutch were not happy.
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For sure. Concerns here are specifically about the risk of (hyper) inflation. If the EU buys bonds above the 33% threshold and the country would default on them the ECB would most likely solve that issue simply by compensating with printing more money. And the more bonds we have, the greater the threat of inflation.

But my understanding of economics and the models underpinning this is not sufficient to have a strong opinion either way.
 

Ian Skippy

Ian Skippy
Odd news from Belgium. One hospital has started testing non-suspected patients. 8% has tested positive, including measurable damage to the lungs without the patient noticing it (yet). Long term impact unknown.

I myself will enter week 4(!), with very little improvement with regards to breathing or lung pain compared with last week. Starting to look forward to recovery. :cautious:
 

sewerratuk

sewerratuk
Rubbernuke said:
I wonder how much debt the US can accrue (since the debt ceiling never goes down). The EU will see this as a lesson for closer co-operation, but the biggest problem will be Italys economy which was bad before this kicked off. Germany will grumble, and recently the Dutch gov have been accused of being misers regarding financial help over Eurobonds. Unless Macron does something truly stupid I can't see Le Pen getting in. If anything you might see a lurch to the left.

The one to watch is the UK, how is a centre / right gov that swung to the left going to find itself again? It has not even exited the EU yet, and the population will be rattled about CV and want more action on the NHS they (the gov) tried so hard to kill.
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When this is all over there is going to be a long lasting financial crisis leading to years of austerity. The NHS and other services will have funding slashed.
We will be looking to the US for help stimulating the economy, as will many other countries
 
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Ian Skippy

Ian Skippy
Patrick_68000 said:
The number of cases of contamination with coronavirus in Germany increased by 8% in 24 hours to reach 52,547, including 389 fatal cases, show statistics published by the Robert Koch Institute for Infectious Diseases, federal health authority.

64 new deaths have been recorded in the last 24 hours, an increase of 19%.

It seems that the virtuous Germany will also have its share of the burden in the coming weeks.

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😷
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Germany has been flying in Italian, British, French and Austrian patients to be treated in Germany. How are these patients counted? As German cases (and possibly casualties)?
 
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ianw

I
Ian Skippy said:
Last week in the Netherlands the prevailing sentiment was that we don't need other countries, that we were smarter, less panicky, more mature and calm in the face of a crisis. Right now the only question on most of our minds is whether Germany will come rescue us.

For most, the question whether we are 'better together' has been quite resoundingly answered. New questions have replaced it, with the most urgent ones dealing with the recent trends in healthcare policy. The last 15 years we have increasingly went in the direction of semi-privatisation. Right now we are wondering if the much praised 'efficiency' may have come at the cost of resilience and robustness.

But these are questions we'll answer when the dust has settled.
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Seems Germany is helping out where it can - good on them. https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/28...own-from-france-and-italy-to-german-hospitals

Ian Skippy said:
Odd news from Belgium. One hospital has started testing non-suspected patients. 8% has tested positive, including measurable damage to the lungs without the patient noticing it (yet). Long term impact unknown.

I myself will enter week 4(!), with very little improvement with regards to breathing or lung pain compared with last week. Starting to look forward to recovery. :cautious:
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Hope it picks up soon.
 

WeComeInPeace

WeComeInPeace
Ian Skippy said:
Odd news from Belgium. One hospital has started testing non-suspected patients. 8% has tested positive, including measurable damage to the lungs without the patient noticing it (yet). Long term impact unknown.
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Do you have some sort of link to that story? I'd really like to read that. Thanks in advance.

I hope you get well soon.
 

AkenBosch

AkenBosch
Ian Skippy said:
Germany has been flying in Italian, British, French and Austrian patients to be treated in Germany. How are these patients counted? As German cases (and possibly casualties)?
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Interesting question, but logic would dictate they'd still count for their country of origin statistics, Germany is "only" ("""only""") making available beds, people and equipment to treat already ongoing cases.
 

WhiteHaulerMan

WhiteHaulerMan
AkenBosch said:
Interesting question, but logic would dictate they'd still count for their country of origin statistics, Germany is "only" ("""only""") making available beds, people and equipment to treat already ongoing cases.
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It's a fair question to ask, particularly with how people like to manipulate statistics to prove a point.
 

AkenBosch

AkenBosch
Sadly, twelve people more or less won't add much to any attempt at manipulation, given the current numbers*.

(*"Reported numbers taken as they are", better to clarify since the topic seems so touchy around here)
 
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Synkreto

Synkreto
So, in order to avoid confusion : please understand that what I am writing below is written out of interest, and the desire to be able to understand more about what I am writing about .Please refrain from taking it personal, clasifying it as "AntiMyNation", "AntiCapitalism" or any other nonsense . Try to understand that I am interested in FACTS, and do not care about any sentiment re. the above mentioned .

Quick tests as well as quick antiboy tests could be really good news, and could well proove to be a game changer . But what I am really interested in for these tests is

  1. precison
  2. sensitivity
  3. failure rate
of those tests . Did some searches yesterday re antibody tests, and just now for the announced quicktest by Abbott . Could not find the Information really .

Please understand me here . I am interested in whether those tests are actually RELIABLE, and therefore really helpfull .

For the rather quick, serological antibody tests which were reported yesterday (?) to roll out, the FDA

does not intend to object to the development and distribution by commercial manufacturers” of these tests, provided they meet a number of criteria, including qualifying the results of their reported test results with the following information:

  • This test has not been reviewed by the FDA.
  • Negative results do not rule out SARS-CoV-2 infection, particularly in those who have been in contact with the virus. Follow-up testing with a molecular diagnostic should be considered to rule out infection in these individuals.
  • Results from antibody testing should not be used as the sole basis to diagnose or exclude SARS-CoV-2 infection or to inform infection status.
  • Positive results may be due to past or present infection with non-SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus strains, such as coronavirus HKU1, NL63, OC43, or 229E.
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Source:
techcrunch.com

The FDA just okayed multiple 15-minute blood tests to screen for coronavirus, but there are caveats | TechCrunch

On Thursday, the FDA amended their emergency policy around diagnostic testing for SARS-CoV-2, the novel coronavirus that causes COVID-19. Following on a
techcrunch.com techcrunch.com

this to me amounts to "worse then useless" . Please, please, please base any discussion on this on FACTS .

As another caveat, there have been voices during the past week mentioning that - just as with almost everything else urgently needed at the moment - also the chemicals needed for PCR tests are running low, since there are only a few suppliers for some of them globally . Now, if the new tests newly announced are using different (re)agents, that would be reassuring .
 
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WhiteHaulerMan

WhiteHaulerMan
AkenBosch said:
Sadly, twelve people more or less won't add much to any attempt at manipulation, given the current numbers*.

(*"Reported numbers taken as they are", better to clarify since the topic seems so touchy around here)
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It is not about 'being touchy'.

It is about making sure you know where the numbers come from, so you can make a sensible assessment based on their meaning.

See The Tiger That Isn't for an understanding of how that manipulation of data can lead to agenda-ised outcomes.
 

AkenBosch

AkenBosch
@WhiteHaulerMan no problem at all, indeed it could have been taken with the wrong meaning, a bit of clarification can go a long way. No intention to deride anyone unless it's clearly for joking purposes, can't see the point in that.
 
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