General / Off-Topic The safest place

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That doesn't constitute an answer to my charge; an obvious exception is made for the CCP for obvious reasons; after you guys gang piled me the other day I decided to change my tactics to be more blunt.

This idea that the CCP isn't responsible for how they covered this up in the international community directly leading to the rampaging spread we see now would be laughable if it were not so sickening. Look around you at the devistation and then look at how this was handled where it originated. Anybody who actually thinks that has simply not been watching the news. I know that you and many others thrive and gain strength by pointing fingers...why do you all refuse to point the finger where it actually deserves to be pointed?

You know Jason, in the last few days, I was really tempted to copy some earlier posts of this Thread for you to read, especially your reactions to those who had a much better understanding of what was REALLY going on than you or me . But then I quickly remind myself that it would be a waste of time . I really have more important things to do .

Nothing hinders you to do that though . I suggest you start reading at about page 12 or so, maybe earlier .
 
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Deleted member 38366

D
On the "pointing fingers at China" :

Please keep in mind the so-called "west" had countless cover-ups in the past just as well.
So whoever is throwing mud right now likely doesn't wear a white, clean shirt himself.

On the handling of the situation :
China - just as most other countries - faced a few massive problems :
  • ensure public trust in its own government and its ability to tackle the challenge
  • international relations and the reaction of all other governments
  • avoid national or international panic to maintain control and afford other nations the same

If I compare that i.e. to how other governments, organizations or the EU initially handled it, I vividly recall seeing the exact same patterns.
Even the WHO initially downplayed it severely.
I recall seeing one of the first appearances of Germany's RKI lead scientist and couldn't believe the nonsense he was still speaking at that time.
Based on some Details he talked about, it was absolutely clear he fully knew far more than he was allowed to discuss in public and on national TV.

Same with the EU in Brussels, initially (and repeatedly) demanding nations to adhere to the Schengen Treaty and wait for a coordinated EU response - which at that time was already way too late and no signs of such a unified approach was even visible on the Horizon. All while individual Nations had already kicked into high gear because reality forced their hands with no time to lose.

Unfortunately, this is a perfectly normal reaction of pretty much any government. First step is always to maintain control and avoid loss of control at all cost (i.e. public panic).
This is to be maintained for as long as possible, even if it comes at a price.

How else could a government maintain control - even if they were factually not in control and still in the process of working out plans to regain the control a potent Biohazard in an outbreak scenario was ripping from their hands?
Either way, while typically happening with the best of intentions, those are some of the reasons the public will never get access to "red briefings" that occur daily behind closed doors.
When the public is given the declassified briefings.... don't ever expect the "real deal", that's not how it works.

So while it's easy (convenient?) to point fingers, as usual things aren't as simple or easy as they seem.
On top, the entire planet entered uncharted territory. All we ever had at this point were Simulations based on various Models. This time, however, it's a live scenario and we're right in the heart of it. All of us (unless you live in the Arctic/Antarctica or are an Astronaut on the ISS - or on a nuclear Submarine on a long-term mission maybe).
 
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More running cover for the CCP using the 'ol moral equivalency chestnut?

Look around you in your country, your hometown and then ask yourself how much of that could have been avoided if the CCP had been 100% transparent from the very beginning. Your countrymen, neighbors and family members aren't sickening from past cover ups by various nation's, they're suffering from the current cover up by the CCP.
 
But you agree that green yellow is not a reason to believe you’re infected with corona but if it turns into a gray color it’s much more serious?

Somewhat, yes. The observation is a bit backwards in sequence.

Coloured sputum suggests a different illness.
It can become colourless if we get better, with bacterial clearance.
This a common experience we have all had.

Covid usually doesnt produce much mucus. It could be colourless or grey, sure.
If a victim gets super infected with bacteria, that's usually bad. Colour would go greenish then.

So it isn't a bad simple rule of thumb. We CAN just look at the colour and get an idea.
 
not being on the ball from FIRST domestic case on

Really, being on the ball in case of a pending epidemic/pandemic means reacting well before there are any domestic cases, assuming there is any knowledge of an outbreak occurring anywhere. Events in China, despite their own delayed response and downplaying the issue, gave the rest of the world a sold month of warning...that essentially no one heeded.

Even the richest nations in the world are proving to have marginal surge ICU capacity and insufficient stockpiles of basic equipment, not to mention no coherent plans for what to do when these scenarios inevitably occur, despite having experienced similar ones in the past.

All we ever had at this point were Simulations based on various Models.

Not entirely true. We also had much hindsight with regard to former outbreaks. The most relevant comparison being the 1918-1919 H1N1 pandemic.


For those familiar with history, much of this is deja vu all over again. There are certainly unique components to every pandemic, and some aspects of the impact on a modern global economy will be unprecedented, but almost none of this was truly unforeseeable.
 
More running cover for the CCP using the 'ol moral equivalency chestnut?

Look around you in your country, your hometown and then ask yourself how much of that could have been avoided if the CCP had been 100% transparent from the very beginning. Your countrymen, neighbors and family members aren't sickening from past cover ups by various nation's, they're suffering from the current cover up by the CCP.

The CCP are tragically hillarious in this thing.

Demanding that people stop calling Covid-19 'The Wuhan Flu' citing 'racism' while at the same time using "African Swine Fever" in all their press statements.

You just couldn't make this stuff up.
 
First, not cherrypicking, its just these are the portions of your post I want to reply to .

Really, being on the ball in case of a pending epidemic/pandemic means reacting well before there are any domestic cases, assuming there is any knowledge of an outbreak occurring anywhere. Events in China, despite their own delayed response and downplaying the issue, gave the rest of the world a sold month of warning...that essentially no one heeded.
[...]

You are of course absolutely right . But I deliberately did point to the response from first domestic case on...which is why I wrote what I wrote . When the argument is "The CCP is to blame...", it follows that , once the outbreak DID reach a given Country and showed up in the first confirmed domestic case(s), the response of any Country just as well did or did not contribute to the extend the outbreak did/does develop in that Country .

Not entirely true. We also had much hindsight with regard to former outbreaks. The most relevant comparison being the 1918-1919 H1N1 pandemic.


For those familiar with history, much of this is deja vu all over again. There are certainly unique components to every pandemic, and some aspects of the impact on a modern global economy will be unprecedented, but almost none of this was truly unforeseeable.

Yeah...funny how promoting quarantine, distancing, lockdowns this time around were looked at as "fearmongering" and deliberate attempts to hurt the economy by some...
 
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More running cover for the CCP using the 'ol moral equivalency chestnut?

Look around you in your country, your hometown and then ask yourself how much of that could have been avoided if the CCP had been 100% transparent from the very beginning. Your countrymen, neighbors and family members aren't sickening from past cover ups by various nation's, they're suffering from the current cover up by the CCP.


For the future, please refrain from trying to instrumentalize me for your political agenda . Also, please refrain from trying to tap into my emotions for the same purpose . Also, look at your own Country and Nation, and ask yourself how that all came to be .

Thanks MOD for deleting my previous post ( serious ), I had not really considered...
 
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The CCP are tragically hillarious in this thing.

Demanding that people stop calling Covid-19 'The Wuhan Flu' citing 'racism' while at the same time using "African Swine Fever" in all their press statements.

You just couldn't make this stuff up.

They are really desperate to avoid the blame. They've tried to claim that Americans caused it to spread in China too.

Counterfactual nonsense. It's like a sea of 💩, we might as well listen to Kudlow or Bolsonaro, or ---- the list goes on forever.

Lies take lives.
 
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Ian Phillips

Volunteer Moderator
Everyone. Stop picking on each other.

It's fine to discuss controversial things, and this is an outlet that is needed right now, but there is no excuse for personal bickering.

My previous warning stands: Enforced isolation from this thread is a real option and has already been applied. Don't be the next one.

Thanks.
 
They are really desperate to avoid the blame. They've tried to claim that Americans caused it to spread in China too.

Counterfactual nonsense. It's like a sea of 💩, we might as well listen to Kudlow or Bolsonaro, or ---- the list goes on forever.

Lies take lives.
The CCP are like the Sirius corporation in ED. A corporation that controls everything and runs a nation. Profit is their only goal. They will lie when they think it's profitable and they tell the truth if that leads to profit.
They know they messed up big, this time. They try to create doubt of the origin of the virus, hinting to the US and to Italy. At the same time they give massive aid, for good will.
Their efforts will probably work, but it will not change the facts.
 
Just a small PSA that 1) the naming convention of viruses is by the WHO, not CCP, 2) the guidelines not to name them after regions, nations or people is from 2015, and 3) this was publicly stated and motivated at the time. Attempts to call it 'china virus' and pretend either CCP came up with the request to not do it or CCP strong-armed the WHO to do so are simply right-wing nationalist propaganda.

If people are interesting in Bashing the CCP, just take one of the 1001 well-documented legit reasons.
 
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