General / Off-Topic The safest place

Wotthe Dickens · Mar 31, 2020

I’ve been watching the seagulls and I’m convinced they’re wondering where all the humans have gone, they’re especially missing the bins out the back of restaurants!
Imagine the dolphins, ‘yay, they’ve finally got the bl**dy message! Yippee!’ ... 18 months down the line, when systems are all back on line, ‘oh crap, w.t.f!’. (Poetic license taken in regards to dates and actual speech.)

lysan · Mar 31, 2020

some perspective

Ian Skippy · Mar 31, 2020

Morbad · Mar 31, 2020

The idea that the leadership of China is somehow more responsible for the impact of COVID-19 on me and mine than those entities who tax me for existing in their jurisdictions, and whose incompetence, indifference, or malfeasance are separated by far fewer degrees, is insane. I know, at least in broad strokes, what China's leadership did and what they neglected to do, but none of that even begins to excuse the same sort of mismanagement and neglect from those who would claim me as citizen or subject.

With regard to naming conventions, not calling it "China virus", "Chinese flu", "Chinese coronavirus", or whatever isn't to appease the CCP, it's to protect innocent people who have nothing to do with China, from being victimized by idiots looking for scapegoats. Nor does using WHO terminology absolve the Chinese government of their part in this.

lysan said:
some perspective

Of the highly misleading and already inaccurate sort.

Synkreto · Mar 31, 2020

ianw said:
In other news;
Coronavirus testing kits appear to be contaminated with ...Coronavirus

Is this a usually trustworthy source, and can that be verified ?

ianw · Mar 31, 2020

Synkreto said:
Is this a usually trustworthy source, and can that be verified ?

It's a fair question - it seems to have originated with The Daily Telegraph - it's paywalled so could be clickbait I guess - dunno.

Synkreto · Mar 31, 2020

K. I'll see whether something appears in our media .

lysan · Mar 31, 2020

Morbad said:
The idea that the leadership of China is somehow more responsible for the impact of COVID-19 on me and mine than those entities who tax me for existing in their jurisdictions, and whose incompetence, indifference, or malfeasance are separated by far fewer degrees, is insane. I know, at least in broad strokes, what China's leadership did and what they neglected to do, but none of that even begins to excuse the same sort of mismanagement and neglect from those who would claim me as citizen or subject.

With regard to naming conventions, not calling it "China virus", "Chinese flu", "Chinese coronavirus", or whatever isn't to appease the CCP, it's to protect innocent people who have nothing to do with China, from being victimized by idiots looking for scapegoats. Nor does using WHO terminology absolve the Chinese government of their part in this.

Of the highly misleading and already inaccurate sort.

So you deny that more people die of cancer than the COVID19 virus?
Who is misleading now?

Synkreto · Mar 31, 2020

Han_Zen said:
The CCP are like the Sirius corporation in ED. A corporation that controls everything and runs a nation. Profit is their only goal. They will lie when they think it's profitable and they tell the truth if that leads to profit.
They know they messed up big, this time. They try to create doubt of the origin of the virus, hinting to the US and to Italy. At the same time they give massive aid, for good will.
Their efforts will probably work, but it will not change the facts.

There is zero, nada, zilch PROOF that the Virus "originated" in China . It just so happens that the isolation and first sequencing of it, as well as the first confirmed Cases of CoViD -19 happened in China .

Really funny is : some of the same people who ADAMANTLY insist in the Virus having originated in China, dismiss scientific papers who actually give valid arguments and very plausible theories for it to exactly having happened as those people wish ( origin in China ) as "only Theory" .

True Story .

Synkreto · Mar 31, 2020

lysan said:
So you deny that more people die of cancer than the COVID19 virus?
Who is misleading now?

Can we stop confusing the Virus with the disease, please ? SARS - CoV -2 is not CoViD -19 . If you want to talk about people dieing due to the Virus ( comorbidities ), talk about that . If you want to talk about people dieing to CoViD -19, talk about that .

Syllogism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

edit : typos

Han_Zen · Mar 31, 2020

Synkreto said:
There is zero, nada, zilch PROOF that the Virus "originated" in China . It just so happens that the isolation and first sequencing of it, as well as the first confirmed Cases of CoViD -19 happened in China .

Really funny is : some of the same people who ADAMANTLY insist of the Virus having originated in China, dismiss scientific papers who actually give valid arguments and very plausible theories for it to exactly having happened as those people wish ( origin in China ) as "only Theory" .

True Story .

Of course there is no proof. Only chinese authorities can prove it. It is however overwelmingly likely that the virus spread from bats to humans in a live animal market.
They have those markets in Wuhan. I don’t think they are that common in Bergamo.

GJ51 · Mar 31, 2020

lysan said:
some perspective
View attachment 167439

Pretty much a good illustration of what I've been saying all along.

Yes the virus is unfortunate and needs to be addressed but the hysteria is out of all proportion to the threat driven by a politically motivated press to pin this on someone they don't like.

If not for that it would be a footnote in the daily news cycle.

Synkreto · Mar 31, 2020

Han_Zen said:
Of course there is no proof. Only chinese authorities can prove it. It is however overwelmingly likely that the virus spread from bats to humans in a live animal market.
They have those markets in Wuhan. I don’t think they are that common in Bergamo.

(emphasis mine )

Yeah so...if you concede this point, how does anything re blaming China make sense ? Also, how does "only Chinese authorities can prove it" make Sense ( is not true, also ) ?

Ian Skippy · Mar 31, 2020

Han_Zen said:
It is however overwelmingly likely that the virus spread from bats to humans in a live animal market.

I think you are misstating the direction of the reasoning. There is little evidence that it spread specifically in a live animal market. There is, however, considerable evidence it spread in Wuhan and that bats are at least the reservoir host. And if you have to guess a spot in Wuhan based on that, a live animal market would make sense.

Ian Skippy · Mar 31, 2020

Synkreto said:
(emphasis mine )

Yeah so...if you concede this point, how does anything re blaming China make sense ? Also, how does "only Chinese authorities can prove it" make Sense ( is not true, also ) ?

Because we know for a fact they destroyed evidence, silenced journalists, scientists and doctors and kept vital information from the WHO. Regardless of anything else, that is obviously blameworthy.

GJ51 · Mar 31, 2020

Ian Skippy said:

Which you don't refute with any data

Han_Zen · Mar 31, 2020

Synkreto said:
(emphasis mine )

Yeah so...if you concede this point, how does anything re blaming China make sense ? Also, how does "only Chinese authorities can prove it" make Sense ( is not true, also ) ?

Chinese authorities have full overveiw of the movement and contacts of the first infected cases. They have full access to all electronic tracks. I’m sure they know.

I only blame them for allowing the same unhygenic ways that lead to SARS to continue.

jasonbarron · Mar 31, 2020

Ian Skippy said:
Because we know for a fact they destroyed evidence, silenced journalists, scientists and doctors and kept vital information from the WHO. Regardless of anything else, that is obviously blameworthy.

And when Ian Skippy says what jasonbarron has been saying lo and behold it becomes praiseworthy. I notice that I have this sort of effect on the forum that the bad orange really badz really orangez man has on the rest of the world; if he says something, doesn't matter what, it's time to go into an apoplectic fit of rage and indignation. "The sky is blue." "Aaaaaarghhhh!"

Yeah, if you just forget that I'VE been saying that and maybe just accept it from Ian, just let it sink into your collective brains how the factors he brings up could effect the global spread. The people dropping like flies? The horror stories of triage and worse to come? The devastating cost to the global economies? The vastly increased suicides and building civil unrest? A great deal of this would have been mitigated if the CCP had just told the truth from the beginning. But they didn't, and they still don't. Hell, that's a dramatic understatement. Who among you can look at the global numbers and then look at China's current/daily numbers and even this late in the game think they are even remotely telling the truth? Those of you who would rather blame your own governments than the CCP are the one's who are "insane" as my good friend @Morbad put it earlier.

lysan · Mar 31, 2020

Synkreto said:
Can we stop confusing the Virus with the disease, please ? SARS - CoV -2 is not CoViD -19 . If you want to talk about people dieing due to the Virus ( comorbitdies ), talk about that . If you want to talk about people dieing to CoViD -19, talk about that .

Syllogism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Well I’m a simple person, when people die they are dead, no matter how it occurs, but that’s just me then.

GJ51 · Mar 31, 2020

lysan said:
Well I’m a simple person, when people die they are dead, no matter how it occurs, but that’s just me then.

But you didn't play fair

You actually cited data