Mind going into more detail here? Interesting statement, especially since I can't see how that scenario will play out.
FD answers: no Cartographics for you
- Thread starter marx
- Start date
Precisely.
I remember an initiative from early 2014, called The First Great Expedition, aimed at a trip of exploration, adventure and discovery. This was founded on the premise that a collective of complementary commanders could achieve more together than they could individually.
The idea was that a small fleet of ships would head out into deep space, pushing back the boundaries of known star systems, discovering hyperspace jumps, path-finding (eg. making sure the expedition wasn't heading into a dead end), repairing, refuelling, etc. etc. The key goal - being the first to lay eyes on the never-before-seen systems and stellar bodies in Elite. A bold and imaginative vision, if ever there was one.
Implicit in the hopes and dreams back then was a team made up of "large" ships anchoring the fleet, being supported by many "small" ships - jumping ahead, scouting, finding routes and resources. There was even talk of associated traders doing their thing to finance buying equipment, effect repairs, and so on.
At point of release, the FGE morphed into a general "explorers" player group, mostly because the high expectations of Elite's exploration mechanics went unrealised. Things have improved over the years, but the feel of the FGE never truly translated to stuff that was possible in-game.
Well...
These new player-owned megaships * could, in theory, deliver FGE-like gameplay...
...but FD's approach right now contains showstoppers, costs and contradictions that would sabotage "FGE style gameplay" from the get-go. This is a shame, because if there's anything that screams First Great Expedition, it's a player-owned megaship! *
* I've stopped calling them Fleet Carriers.
The idea was that a small fleet of ships would head out into deep space, pushing back the boundaries of known star systems, discovering hyperspace jumps, path-finding (eg. making sure the expedition wasn't heading into a dead end), repairing, refuelling, etc. etc. The key goal - being the first to lay eyes on the never-before-seen systems and stellar bodies in Elite. A bold and imaginative vision, if ever there was one.
Implicit in the hopes and dreams back then was a team made up of "large" ships anchoring the fleet, being supported by many "small" ships - jumping ahead, scouting, finding routes and resources. There was even talk of associated traders doing their thing to finance buying equipment, effect repairs, and so on.
At point of release, the FGE morphed into a general "explorers" player group, mostly because the high expectations of Elite's exploration mechanics went unrealised. Things have improved over the years, but the feel of the FGE never truly translated to stuff that was possible in-game.
Well...
These new player-owned megaships * could, in theory, deliver FGE-like gameplay...
...but FD's approach right now contains showstoppers, costs and contradictions that would sabotage "FGE style gameplay" from the get-go. This is a shame, because if there's anything that screams First Great Expedition, it's a player-owned megaship! *
* I've stopped calling them Fleet Carriers.
I think ' Shops ' should be paying ME to use MY carrier , not the other way round. Would be nice to wander around the black exploring and mining ores just to relax , you just pick an area ,park up , and go explore the region for a few days ,then hop to another.
Being able to go to far flung places, scanning and hoovering up systems then selling, getting creds and tags while moving along further to far flung paces will wreck the dynamics of exploration IMHO
Is it just me that agree with the Devs that a UC on a portable carrier is not a good thing for the game????
You, among select few. Out of curiosity, do you like exploration? Like, going away from the bubble for a few months, past SagA?Is it just me that agree with the Devs that a UC on a portable carrier is not a good thing for the game????
Yes, it is just you, @Leif 
Serious, nobody is forced to use/install a UC from a FC.
you want to do it oldschool?
Np, do your parallax explo style and get home first, then sell your stuff, get your tags
True explorers like me of course suicide winder whenever it's possible
Oh, and btw, shouldn't it be better serverload-wise if data is sold in little chunks instead of all at once after two years!?
Serious, nobody is forced to use/install a UC from a FC.
you want to do it oldschool?
Np, do your parallax explo style and get home first, then sell your stuff, get your tags
True explorers like me of course suicide winder whenever it's possible
Oh, and btw, shouldn't it be better serverload-wise if data is sold in little chunks instead of all at once after two years!?
Yes, it is just you, @Leif
Serious, nobody is forced to use/install a UC from a FC.
you want to do it oldschool?
I like oldschool method- I'm 1984 oldschool !
Not giving you what you want !== not knowing the community
Not giving you what you want !== bad design (as a rule of thumb)
Its politics. Some you like, some you dont. Freedom of speech says you can complaint to your hearts delight.
Not giving you what you want !== bad design (as a rule of thumb)
Its politics. Some you like, some you dont. Freedom of speech says you can complaint to your hearts delight.
I can kind of agree with that, but on the other hand: what else carrier can give explorers out there in the black except for that UC? What can it do, what I currently can't with modules on my Anaconda? Well, maybe replenish lost SRVs and restore paint. But 150 millions per week for that looks a bit too much
Totally disagree. There's still a minimum time of about a minute per jump to visit each star system, without even adding in scanning time. An explorer still has to visit and scan all of the things to "hoover up" tags. And with a carrier in tow, they'll be spending more time scouting mining locations in rings, and doing the mining. They'll lose a huge amount of exploration time to carrier management that way. If anything, they'll make far fewer discoveries and get far fewer tags.
And this doesn't even get into the jump timer problems, keeping you from getting to far flung places for a very long time.
IMO the behaviour of an Elite explorer is to either deliberately tag a single object (group tag systems are cool to find!) or tag multiple objects as a side effect of scanning them because you're interested in them.
(I've said it before, but it bears repeating: I'd be more than happy to have every single tag of mine removed, although I'd kinda like to keep one in Syriadeae JX-F C0 for nostalgia's sake.)
On a related note, I've been trying out a thoroughly horrible style of exploration these last couple of weeks; I'm exploring purely for cash for one of these blasted carriers and as a consequence I'm leaving a trail of partially scanned systems in my wake, using the atrocious FSS only so long as to establish whether there's valuable planets to detail scan. From an exploration point of view it's pathetic, but I'm curious to see how it compares with the latest get-rich-quick mining fad.
(I've said it before, but it bears repeating: I'd be more than happy to have every single tag of mine removed, although I'd kinda like to keep one in Syriadeae JX-F C0 for nostalgia's sake.)
On a related note, I've been trying out a thoroughly horrible style of exploration these last couple of weeks; I'm exploring purely for cash for one of these blasted carriers and as a consequence I'm leaving a trail of partially scanned systems in my wake, using the atrocious FSS only so long as to establish whether there's valuable planets to detail scan. From an exploration point of view it's pathetic, but I'm curious to see how it compares with the latest get-rich-quick mining fad.
Don't forget what will come at its end: the LYR grind. That's where I am right now, and ugh. What wonderful design from Frontier.
In any case, if you go map your pre-FSS finds for the larger-than-normal payout, and utilise the LYR bonus at the end, the credit rate should come out at around 40-42 million Cr / h. Based on Allitnil's data, his was 41 million, so I think this sounds like a good estimate.
Of course, it only lasts as long as you have stuff discovered before the FSS, so it's not like there's an infinite source as there is with laser mining.
But then, even with the FSS, I still enjoy a dozen hours of exploration more than I enjoy three hours of laser mining. (But the LYR grind... Oof.)
Thank you very much for providing the clip.
And now that I've listened to it... that's one of the worst answers I've ever heard. Let me put this in bold with italics and repeat it a few times in the hope that it sinks in somewhere in Cambridge:
FORCING PEOPLE TO PLAY A SANDBOX GAME A PARTICULAR WAY IS INCREDIBLY BAD FOR BUSINESS.
FORCING PEOPLE TO PLAY A SANDBOX GAME A PARTICULAR WAY IS INCREDIBLY BAD FOR BUSINESS.
FORCING PEOPLE TO PLAY A SANDBOX GAME A PARTICULAR WAY IS INCREDIBLY BAD FOR BUSINESS.
Glad these are free, because I wasn't gonna pay for them. As it stands (and speaking only for myself), I don't see a point in getting hyped for paid DLC. If I wanted to be told how to play a game beyond the TOS or EULA, I'd go back to formulaic MMOs with set storylines and leveling progression and all those silly little hoops and carrots.
What's the matter, FDev? Afraid we'll make something people like so much they stop using your offerings in the bubble? Afraid we can do this better than you?
The only other logical conclusion, if it isn't fear of being surpassed, is so monstrous I won't even suggest it. I'm just gonna go with this. Stop being afraid of the playerbase. Start working with us instead so that, together, we can realize a little more of the immense potential the galaxy holds -- for developer and player alike.
Stop treating grown adults that are paying customers as if they were children. It's incredibly disrespectful.
FORCING PEOPLE TO PLAY A SANDBOX GAME A PARTICULAR WAY IS INCREDIBLY BAD FOR BUSINESS.
FORCING PEOPLE TO PLAY A SANDBOX GAME A PARTICULAR WAY IS INCREDIBLY BAD FOR BUSINESS.
FORCING PEOPLE TO PLAY A SANDBOX GAME A PARTICULAR WAY IS INCREDIBLY BAD FOR BUSINESS.
Glad these are free, because I wasn't gonna pay for them. As it stands (and speaking only for myself), I don't see a point in getting hyped for paid DLC. If I wanted to be told how to play a game beyond the TOS or EULA, I'd go back to formulaic MMOs with set storylines and leveling progression and all those silly little hoops and carrots.
What's the matter, FDev? Afraid we'll make something people like so much they stop using your offerings in the bubble? Afraid we can do this better than you?
The only other logical conclusion, if it isn't fear of being surpassed, is so monstrous I won't even suggest it. I'm just gonna go with this. Stop being afraid of the playerbase. Start working with us instead so that, together, we can realize a little more of the immense potential the galaxy holds -- for developer and player alike.
Stop treating grown adults that are paying customers as if they were children. It's incredibly disrespectful.
Funny thing: nobody is forcing you to do anything.
spot on.
i would add that there is no such thing as design in abstract, let alone good or bad, you design for something. the question is what has frontier been designing for. if the aim is some sort of farmville in space with your own spacey themed farm that you need to log in to maintain, then i'd say it's a pretty good job. i further assume that having exclusive access to the numbers and behavior patterns they do know the player base (community is such an imprecise definition) far better than anyone, and that this design is probably not a coincidence ...
You're right; I don't have to buy one at all, do I. No one's forcing me to eat either. It's not like I'll die immediately; life will still be experienced, yes? Kinda like selling people the base game, telling them the expansion doesn't matter. Probably not until engineering starts to matter anyway. It's not like they need it in order to fly a spaceship, right?
I took the liberty of re-establishing context in the quote. I'd appreciate it in the future if quotes aren't taken out of context, but if that's not feasible don't worry; I'll happily restore it as needed. But I do sincerely appreciate it every time common courtesy is extended.
![[PS4] Filthymick420](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/201/201444.jpg?1555738739){kind=avatar}
Alt accts are free on console. Just sayin....