PvP FDL PvP loadout viable?

Catharsiac

Catharsiac
As far as I'm concerned, the traditional FDL meta is 3 PAs and 2 rails, but there are two problems: I tried to use 4 railguns and even that seemed to do not really much hull damage, and also I totally hate asymmetric setups (the medium PAs should be on one side, rails on the other). I tried using 3 PAs on center mounts and two seeker missile racks on the sides, and really loved it. Missiles have great hull damage and I can focus all of my attention on firing plasma. I don't have any serious PvP experience, so can someone tell me if it will be an effective loadout if I stick to it (maybe forever)? Also, I'd love to get some shield and engineering tips (powerplant, plasma efficent vs longrange, bi-weave vs prismatic shields, how many shield boosters etc). A coriolis link from a person who uses a loadout like this in PvP would be perfect.
 
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tiddymun

T
rather than ask for lots of advice, I suggest just taking your FDL to Deciat, Borann, Shinrata and get interdicted. You'll soon find out what works for you and what doesn't. and you'll have no end of fun as long as you treat each encounter as a learning experience, dont give a monkeys about being killed all the time, and record the fights so you can look back over them and see where you made mistakes etc.....
the PA/rail combo is high skill. you only gain skill through experience ;)
 

Catharsiac

Catharsiac
tiddymun said:
rather than ask for lots of advice, I suggest just taking your FDL to Deciat, Borann, Shinrata and get interdicted. You'll soon find out what works for you and what doesn't. and you'll have no end of fun as long as you treat each encounter as a learning experience, dont give a monkeys about being killed all the time, and record the fights so you can look back over them and see where you made mistakes etc.....
the PA/rail combo is high skill. you only gain skill through experience ;)
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Don't really want to do that, because the only thing I got engineered is FSD, so I'll just get destroyed in seconds, which I guess won't really give me anything but wasted credits. The reason I'm asking is because my ship is not yet ready for PvP, but I'd rather spend time gaining experience with something meta and widely used than fly around with something I feel "comfortable" with and then realise it objectively underperforms in PvP
 

Morbad

Morbad
Some people will complain about seeker racks, and there are times when you'll definitely want some good hitscan weapons, but if your skills are up to snuff, three PAs and two seekers will almost certainly be able to complete.

Anyway, your perception of rails not doing good hull damage is almost certainly due to how penetration and module damage works. Rails are murder against most shieldless ships due to how frequently they'll induce malfunctions or destroy modules.
 

Catharsiac

Catharsiac
Morbad said:
Some people will complain about seeker racks, and there are times when you'll definitely want some good hitscan weapons, but if your skills are up to snuff, three PAs and two seekers will almost certainly be able to complete.

Anyway, your perception of rails not doing good hull damage is almost certainly due to how penetration and module damage works. Rails are murder against most shieldless ships due to how frequently they'll induce malfunctions or destroy modules.
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Thank you for your answer, I'll try to get better in module sniping, maybe then rails will feel much deadlier against hulls (however the main problem for me is still having to use the asymmetric setup). As for missiles, are pack hounds worth it? Some say they do less damage per volley, but is it so? I guess their point defense evading potential compensates for it if it is so
 

Bigmaec

Bigmaec
Catharsiac said:
As far as I'm concerned, the traditional FDL meta is 3 PAs and 2 rails, but there are two problems: I tried to use 4 railguns and even that seemed to do not really much hull damage, and also I totally hate asymmetric setups (the medium PAs should be on one side, rails on the other). I tried using 3 PAs on center mounts and two seeker missile racks on the sides, and really loved it. Missiles have great hull damage and I can focus all of my attention on firing plasma. I don't have any serious PvP experience, so can someone tell me if it will be an effective loadout if I stick to it (maybe forever)? Also, I'd love to get some shield and engineering tips (powerplant, plasma efficent vs longrange, bi-weave vs prismatic shields, how many shield boosters etc). A coriolis link from a person who uses a loadout like this in PvP would be perfect.
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Catharsiac said:
Thank you for your answer, I'll try to get better in module sniping, maybe then rails will feel much deadlier against hulls (however the main problem for me is still having to use the asymmetric setup). As for missiles, are pack hounds worth it? Some say they do less damage per volley, but is it so? I guess their point defense evading potential compensates for it if it is so
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I can't hit anything with FdLs in FAoff sadly because they are so jittery, so I use gimballed multicannons on mine (lame, I know).

Generally you're good with a PA loadout though, because you can kill shields most efficient with them due to how absolute works.
A complimentary rail armament is the meta, but other weapons aren't unheard of. Packhounds or seekers work good, but are frowned upon by "real PvPers" (* drinks *)
due to their "low skill requirement".

Regarding general outfitting :

Core:
Powerplant -> armored if possible (could be impossible with a dual SCB loadout, depending on weapons)
Distributor -> charge enhanced / super caps
FSD -> generally I prefer to be able to jump, so extended range (could go for shielded, but good luck hitting an evasive FdL anyways)
Sensors, life support -> I'd go for lightweight, but generally not really important
Hull -> reactive (either lightweight or heavy duty) compensating the thermal deficit with a single small thermal resistant HRP

Optionals/utilities:
either a high evasive (thermal res) bi-weave with only a few boosters and chaff and heatsinks, or a stacked (reinforced) prismatic with 5 boosters and one chaff
either a dual HRP build or a dual SCB build
one MRP, one thermal resistant HRP, one interdictor

That's my to go FdL

Coriolis EDCD Edition

A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous
s.orbis.zone s.orbis.zone
 
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Morbad

Morbad
Catharsiac said:
Thank you for your answer, I'll try to get better in module sniping, maybe then rails will feel much deadlier against hulls (however the main problem for me is still having to use the asymmetric setup). As for missiles, are pack hounds worth it? Some say they do less damage per volley, but is it so? I guess their point defense evading potential compensates for it if it is so
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It's worth it to acclimate to an asymmetric loadout. The medium hardpoints on each side the FDL are closer to each other than the two center mediums and not terribly far from the huge. Personally, I prefer a pair of rails on the right hand side, as the pilot's seat is 1-2m closer to them...hardly a big deal, or really even noticeable difference, but every little bit helps.

Also, you don't need to specifically target modules for modules to be hit...though it certainly helps to have an appropriately critical module selected to make striking what you want easier.

As for missiles, I'm not 100% certain on damage per volley, but packhounds definitely work better against PDTs. On the downside, they are a bit slower and bit more susceptible to sympathetic detonations. Which ever mix you select, I'd recommend staggering their fire by rocking firegroups and using both emissive and drag modifications.
 
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cmdr Ramius007

C
Not so std but effective especially 1vs1 build is 3 gimbal mc with 2 lr/focused effects pa, it somehow fix convergence and asymetric issue some have, hard counters gimbal builds too. Expect longer fights tough.
 

Phisto Sobanii

Phisto Sobanii
This is what I use for my Bubble gankcations. https://s.orbis.zone/6kh5 (EDIT: Ignore the DSS. I forgot to swap that back out for module reinforcement after scanning Borann's rings. My bad.)

It's not a proper PvP build by any stretch of the imagination but I tried to incorporate a few best practices.

1) Bi-weave shields are generally best in 1v1 scenarios. You can avoid fire and take advantage of regeneration. In wing fights, prismatics are favored. The idea in my build is to tank just enough damage to scalp a target and flee (whether that's defending players or cop attrition). Take a look at the resistances and MJ amount. On a prismatic, this gives you the best balance for what you'll see in the wild. High MJ to deal with rams and PAs, high kinetic and explosive for things like multicannons and missiles, and slightly lower thermal because thermal weapons do less damage than anything else anyway.

A proper PvP build would likely have a size five prismatic. Quite a few people like the size four though and couple it with armor or SCBs in the remaining five and four slot.

2) Unless you know without a doubt your enemies are running fixed, better bring chaff. If you don't, gimbal users are just gonna get free time on target. Low skill weapons or not, that's on you for not preparing.

3) Five PAs is a lot of fun. This one has dispersal, TLB, and three thermal conduits. Firing over 80% gets you a damage bonus. Fire over 100%, and that bonus increases substantially. When I'm getting good time on target, with boosting and firing I'll often be getting the TC bonuses after 2 or three volleys. Sometimes I'll bring a 2B shield cell bank and hot bank in preparation for TC shots. Boost and pop the bank, get over 100%, and rock and roll. Heat damage has been nerfed so hard this tactic is quite viable. Your chaff will be the first to drop under 80% and start malfunctioning, so that gives you a good heads up regarding the heat damage you're doing to yourself.

Hope this helps!
 

cmdr Ramius007

C
Problem with bi-weaves in fdl is how OP boosters are, even if you take into consideration reinforced fast charge bi-weaves with 4 boosters 1600MJ base vs 2450MJ of 4 booster prism, you need fight to last around 30 mins and get at least one broken regen to go over prismatic healtpool (remember those recherge overtime too) . Of course there are other benefits of 2-3 boosters BROKEN regen bi-weaves, even in wings, like being able to not get focused so easily by plasma builds and gimbals, but hard math supports prism even in 1vs1, outside rare scenarios with broken hybrid runnnig away to recherge shields vs full short range weapons and slower ship. In 1vs1 gap is just smaller, but it's still here. Real question now IMO is 5 boosters and hrp's/mrp vs 4 boosters and banks, both 1vs1 and wings?
 
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Bigmaec

Bigmaec
cmdr Ramius007 said:
Problem with bi-weaves in fdl is how OP boosters are, even if you take into consideration reinforced fast charge bi-weaves with 4 boosters 1600MJ base vs 2450MJ of 4 booster prism, you need fight to last around 30 mins and get at least one broken regen to go over prismatic healtpool (remember those recherge overtime too) . Of course there are other benefits of 2-3 boosters BROKEN regen bi-weaves, even in wings, like being able to not get focused so easily by plasma builds and gimbals, but hard math supports prism even in 1vs1, outside rare scenarios with broken hybrid runnnig away to recherge shields vs full short range weapons and slower ship. In 1vs1 gap is just smaller, but it's still here. Real question now IMO is 5 boosters and hrp's/mrp vs 4 boosters and banks, both 1vs1 and wings?
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I like the 5 booster dual HRP setup more, because it gives a bit more protection against a phasing build. And as soon as the shields drop, you can go 042 and be evasive as hell, and still have 2000 hp left.
 

Cmdr Mo Baxter

C
Does anybody have a build for the 2 shield booster biweave FDL people use to have those fly by the seat of your pants fights? I.e., are they two augmented A's, or? And, do they tend to use thermal resistant or reinforced shields with fast charge, or other? Many thanks (the grind is killing me)
 

Sebastian Rooks

Sebastian Rooks
Bigmaec said:
I can't hit anything with FdLs in FAoff sadly because they are so jittery, so I use gimballed multicannons on mine (lame, I know).
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I don't know that I'd call using gimballed multi's lame. Truesilver was not only a advocate of them, he made a good argument for their use due to inequities in P2P instancing.

SR o7
 

Cmdr Mo Baxter

C
cmdr Ramius007 said:
yes, but it matter in broken regen, when shields are up diffrence is very small
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Ah, so would I be right in thinking low draw might be more of a benefit to biweave fdl in that sense, whereas fast charge still good for, say, viper, where you don't need as much power to get the shields back? And as you say, very small difference between fast charge and low draw when up! hmmmm
 
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