Exploring the galaxy's perimeter - question re: risk of getting stranded

El Vert

E
A question for the veteran explorers here . . .

I have done some exploring in the past - mostly before the new FSS - and am on another trip now. Not going anywhere in particular, but more or less heading for the perimeter of the galaxy. Using an Orca with about 55 lyrs maximum range. I'm never in a hurry and while I have an AFMU, I don't have repair limpets, and since I try to avoid damage for all my trips, I have never used neutron stars, nor have I ever used FSD injection before (although I'm not sure that damages anything) to increase my jump range.

On this trip, twice now I've had something happen which I've not seen before. I have my next target star laid in, and have been traveling toward it for a few days - maybe 10,000 lyrs or so from my current location - and just a few hours ago I was jumping toward it without incident. I took a few hours off, and when I came back to continue the trip, I logged on, hit M to reload the target, but now it says "route plotting failed". I tried some stars relatively close to my target, and get the same result.

This is the second time on this trip this has happened, where a target star which was formerly working is now apparently beyond my reach.

I assume the stars are in motion relative to my location, and there aren't all that many of them close to the galaxy's perimeter . . . so is it possible that they are slowly but surely moving beyond my jump range? I have quite a bit of exploration data stored, and I'm concerned that I might get to a target successfully, but then be unable to get back. Is that a risk? Should I just resign myself to staying closer to the core?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me!

El Vert
 

Zieman

Zieman
No, in E: D the stars don't move relative to each other.

The route plotter fails sometimes seemingly without any reason.
Try to manually plot a couple of jumps towards your destination, or perpendicular to your route, and then check if the route plotter manages to work again.
 

VR tazbert

VR tazbert
Out towards the edge the plotter can be tricky. It managed to plot a path from your original position, but now you have moved it can't find a path.
Remember, it only looks in a relatively narrow angle - no doubling back etc.
If you watch it try, it should get to a certain percentage - that tells you how far away the problem is.
If it is close by, try going up or down a little relative to the galactic plane, then try again.
If it's near the destination, just keep going - it should resolve eventually!
 

Sapyx

Sapyx
I took a Type 10 out to the Crab Nebula a year or so ago. 21 LY jump range, or something like that. Had a terrible time getting the route plotter to work - it would hit 98%, then stop. Every single time. Got out near the Crab Nebula, and found out why: there's a huge starless void, about 30-40 LY thick and a couple hundred LYs wide and high, directly in front of the nebula. You can easily fly around it and get to the space station in the Crab Sector DL-Y d9 system from the side using that jump range, but you can't plot a route there directly from the Bubble in a ship like that - the void is just too big.

Now, imagine a similar void, only with one or two stars in the middle of it, allowing safe transit across the void through those "bridge" systems. If the route-plotter finds those bridge systems, well and good it can plot a route. But if it can't find those bridge systems - if, for example, your jump range is 40 LY and the bridge stars are 30 LY into the void, then if the route plotter lands within 10 LY of the edge of the void, it can find the bridge and get across, but if it lands further away, then the bridge stars are out of range - then all it can see is a void, that it can't cross or go around. Route plot failed.

It's all got to do with the travelling salesman problem, which requires a vast amount of computing power to crunch through to find "the most efficient route" if the number of potential waypoints (stars) is as high as it is in ED. The route plotter used to be better at skirting around obstacles and crossing voids, but plotting routes with it used to take so dang long, people would think the game had crashed. When they upped the plot range from 1000 LY to 20,000 LY, the old system simply wouldn't have worked. They were forced to make the route-plotter dumber, but quicker.
 

SMcA

SMcA
Sapyx said:
I took a Type 10 out to the Crab Nebula a year or so ago. 21 LY jump range, or something like that. Had a terrible time getting the route plotter to work - it would hit 98%, then stop. Every single time. Got out near the Crab Nebula, and found out why: there's a huge starless void, about 30-40 LY thick and a couple hundred LYs wide and high, directly in front of the nebula. You can easily fly around it and get to the space station in the Crab Sector DL-Y d9 system from the side using that jump range, but you can't plot a route there directly from the Bubble in a ship like that - the void is just too big.

Now, imagine a similar void, only with one or two stars in the middle of it, allowing safe transit across the void through those "bridge" systems. If the route-plotter finds those bridge systems, well and good it can plot a route. But if it can't find those bridge systems - if, for example, your jump range is 40 LY and the bridge stars are 30 LY into the void, then if the route plotter lands within 10 LY of the edge of the void, it can find the bridge and get across, but if it lands further away, then the bridge stars are out of range - then all it can see is a void, that it can't cross or go around. Route plot failed.

It's all got to do with the travelling salesman problem, which requires a vast amount of computing power to crunch through to find "the most efficient route" if the number of potential waypoints (stars) is as high as it is in ED. The route plotter used to be better at skirting around obstacles and crossing voids, but plotting routes with it used to take so dang long, people would think the game had crashed. When they upped the plot range from 1000 LY to 20,000 LY, the old system simply wouldn't have worked. They were forced to make the route-plotter dumber, but quicker.
Click to expand...
There is a similar problem I have encountered. You can jump into a volume of space that has an entry jump which was further than I could jump with a full tank. So I had to backtrack to get out. I used the "visited stars" filter in the G-Map. When I arrived at a star that was a dead end I had to burn off some fuel before I could get out.
 

Sapyx

Sapyx
Shinji Ikari said:
They should have left multiple kinds of route plotters, after all, the code was already there.
Click to expand...

I believe there may already be two different versions of the route plotter that run sequentially. I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but if you successfully plot a long-distance route with hundreds of waypoints, after finishing the plot calculation it starts calculating again, working in the background, taking two or three times longer than the first route did. If you leave the galaxy map alone for a few minutes, this second plot will complete, and usually gives you a (slightly) better route. I don't know if this second plotter is calculating a whole new route using different algorithms, or if it's just "polishing" the first route, finding shortcuts and eliminating double-backs.
 

Orvidius

Orvidius
I think it also uses a smarter version of the algorithm for short course plots, like under 1k. I really haven't done much testing, but anecdotally it seems to do better with short course plots than long ones, in getting around gaps and so forth.
 

Old Duck

Old Duck
Fleet Carriers should greatly reduce the chance of getting stranded anywhere. I myself may go where I've never gone before (either or up), and if I get stuck, then I'll request somebody to jump in with their FC and give me a ride out of there. Since I would be in a relatively humble exploration ship (60 ly max), I shouldn't get myself stuck anywhere a FC won't be able to reach.
 

Elferren

Elferren
Old Duck said:
Fleet Carriers should greatly reduce the chance of getting stranded anywhere. I myself may go where I've never gone before (either or up), and if I get stuck, then I'll request somebody to jump in with their FC and give me a ride out of there. Since I would be in a relatively humble exploration ship (60 ly max), I shouldn't get myself stuck anywhere a FC won't be able to reach.
Click to expand...

ANOTHER favorable FC comment, old chap!

You'll be mining for one soon!
 

marx

marx
Here are the ways you can get stranded somewhere:
1. Jump to a system without scoopable stars, and have no fuel to jump out anywhere, even with a synthesized boost (= less fuel consumption to the same star)
2. Use a neutron star boost to jump somewhere where there is no way back without another NS boost
3. Use a synthesized boost to jump somewhere without having enough materials for another synthesized boost back

As you can see, if you pay attention, all these are quite easily avoidable. In the first case, others can rescue you. In the rest, a carrier will be able to rescue you, but likely at a great cost to the owner.

Oh, and I guess you can also lose your ship while you're out in your SRV, in which case you are well and truly stranded.
 

El Vert

E
Some replies:

Sapyx,

Re: the route planner refining itself - that's interesting, and I've never noticed it before. For my next far-off destination I'm going to let the route planner sit for a while to see if it changes routes. I assume that the issue I originally posted about (target system is successfully plotted but then part of the way there becomes beyond reach) would not be remedied by this, since once it says the route plotting failed, it seems to stop trying . . but if and when it happens again, I may try it several more times before I change my route, just to see.

Marx,

Re: jumping through a sea of brown dwarfs and finding yourself out of fuel . . . a few years back, when I was new to exploring, I almost fell into that trap. When I finally realized my predicament, there was exactly one fuel star I could still reach and I managed to extract myself. I have always scooped to full at every KGBFOAM star I come to, but now I'm also careful to check the route anytime I get even a single non-scoopable target, to make sure that if there is more than one non-fuel star on my route, I don't continue past about 65% fuel, so that if I have to backtrack to the last scoopable star, I still can.

Re: losing your ship while motoring about in an SRV - I am torn on the best approach on that risk. I never carry any cargo while exploring so as not to entice pirates, but I used to always dismiss the ship once I was in the SRV because I understand that once it gets up, it ceases to exist to other players (same as if you were logged off). But I've also heard tales of ships crashing while trying to land themselves. I've not had that happen to me yet, but I always wonder what I'd do if it did . . .

El Vert
 

Valije

Valije
In the very last few hundred ly near the very edge the amount of non scoopable stars is close to zero. If you want to reach the very edge you can do it with your jump range, but not in all locations. My recomendations:

  • Never fly with less than a quarter of each of the materials used for jumponium. When you need to land to get more, try to find planets with several of the materials needed. In my experience it is easier to find rare/very rare mats in geo or bio sites and the others roaming around.
  • Routes will be useleless in the very sparse areas. You need to do a jump at a time. Learn how to use the "orange hats" to check if you can travel to a system and to find the routes that will use the less amount of rare materials. Use tags to mark your hand-made route.
  • Jumping around "in fumes" adds 3 or 4 ly to your jump range. It will be stressful at first, but it may be needed with your jump range. Remember to ALWAYS check the main start of the next system in the info you get when you start the jump and abort if it is not scoopable.
  • Don't use filters in the galaxy map. It can happen that a system that is ignored with the filters might be the one needed to continue your trip.
  • Be careful and have fun.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom