General / Off-Topic The safest place

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Para Handy

Para Handy
Red Anders said:
........ If I get it, I'd be happy to take my chances - I might well have a fairly crappy time of it since I'm a smoker but I'm in fairly good general health. ..............
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You might be interested in this then:

www.theguardian.com

French researchers to test nicotine patches on coronavirus patients

Study – which stresses serious health risks of smoking – suggest substance in tobacco may lower risk of getting coronavirus
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

... now if only we could actually afford the price of a pack of cigs a day. :ROFLMAO:
 

Robin of Spiritwood

Robin of Spiritwood
"Doctor Oz" the TV character, has abruptly changed his dangerously false song and dance act on Hydroxychloroquine.
Nothing like a study showing nearly 3 times as many people die when they take it to shut up the ignorant proponents.

And this time, yes, that was perjorative. Because Oz has decided to abdicate his training as a Fellow of the American College of Surgery, to perform in public for meretricious purposes. As a person, he's not in the least ignorant.

It is a costume he chooses to wear for fame and money, because he wasn't getting enough as a professional, as plain Dr. Oz, no quotes, in the world's richest nation.

Some authorities are not acting in the interests of the public. They are acting in their own interests, and risking lives to do so. Most of them, like Peter Navarro, know what they are doing.

We should not tolerate that.
 

Ian Skippy

Ian Skippy
Robin of Spiritwood said:
Some authorities are not acting in the interests of the public. They are acting in their own interests, and risking lives to do so. Most of them, like Peter Navarro, know what they are doing.

We should not tolerate that.
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There is a limit what you can do when it concerns people actively wanting to be duped. Alex Jones openly admitted his entire infoWars stuff is nothing but a cynical act, and he did so in a court of law no less. So what is he up to now? Selling fake silver covid19 cures and anti-corona toothpaste. People still watching his stuff are just beyond help. You can remove the fake doctor and fake theory conspiracy peddlers, but their audience will just give their money to the fake TV evangelist or whatever.

The solution is to educate the next generation better and make them cognitively resilient to such nonsense.
 

Robin of Spiritwood

Robin of Spiritwood
slate.com

It’s Honestly Fine if You Can’t Find a Pulse Oximeter to Buy

That viral New York Times op-ed makes some good points. But the timelines here are way off.
slate.com slate.com

Piece on home use of a pulse oximeter. Turns out they are not as useful as thought. Back in late January? Or so? I'd suggested getting this item for home use but now they are sold out.

We generally offer oxygen below 92%, lots of it by 85%, and by 80% we are getting a transfer to ICU, (edit: -from-) where I work.Technically we can go up to CCU designation, which is "cardiac care, or critical care" depending on if you ask the cardiologists or somebody else!
On ICU units, lower numbers appear.

When mine dropped to 90%, it was uncomfortable. But treatment with bronchodilators settled it without oxygen. It is not good to hang out at low levels, because of strokes and heart attacks.

If you have experienced a low level yourself, you know how it feels. Like long distance running, while sitting still.
 
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Robin of Spiritwood

Robin of Spiritwood
🇬🇧 The United Kingdom
www.ft.com

UK coronavirus deaths more than double official figure, according to FT study | Free to read

FT estimate has been updated to reflect latest mortality trends
www.ft.com www.ft.com

The coronavirus pandemic has already caused as many as 41,000 deaths in the UK, according to a Financial Times analysis of the latest data from the Office for National Statistics. The estimate is more than double the official figure of 17,337 released by ministers on Tuesday, which is updated daily and only counts those who have died in hospitals after testing positive for the virus.
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Ralph Vargr said:
I was able to buy four rolls of toilet paper last night. First time I'd seen it in a month.
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So, how are you going to celebrate? ;)
 
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Demascus

Demascus
Besides wearing a face mask at work and the store, very little has changed for me through all of this. Pays to work in military contracting and infrastructure. 🙂
 

metatheurgist

metatheurgist
Ralph Vargr said:
I was able to buy four rolls of toilet paper last night. First time I'd seen it in a month.
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My local supermarket has a whole aisle full again. I had to stop and check the last time I went, couldn't help but smile. All the packaging is smaller now though, but yeah, if the Australians can stop hoarding no excuse for the rest of the world.
 

Robin of Spiritwood

Robin of Spiritwood
-
Morbad said:
Certainly doesn't look promising, but aren't both of these studies pre-print that haven't been reviewed yet? I'm sure there will be plenty of studies of field data and at least a few more trials before hydroxychloroquine is ruled out.

At least no major media outlets or prominent politicians seem to be openly recommending it anymore.
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Yes.
However, if the medicine has a benefit, we should be able to detect something positive, to some degree.
It's possible that the dose ranges are not right, or they give it only to dire cases, skewing the death rates.

It's also possible that in uncontrolled trials reported before, the majority of cases are likely going to recover. Making it look good.

Till there's a clear study that has a better survival rate, better recovery time, or less ICU admissions as a met endpoint, we shouldn't be using this medicine outside of a study. Not even for compassionate usage, as there's now a higher death rate popping up. That is a PR shot through the heart, but I agree with your thinking: it isn't the scientific answer we need.
 

Synkreto

Synkreto
Northpin said:
It was too little too late.

By the time Wuhan entered in lockdown (January 23rd) it already had spread outside of China.
WHO declared Public Health Emergency of International Concern by January 30th
By the time other countries entered in lockdown, it already had spread in their communities and to the rest of the world.
WHO announced it as a Pandemic on March 11th
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In this regard, it is really helpfull to look at the WHO press Briefing of April 22th .
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGJcbogfKSg


The highest State of emergency as far as IHR is concerned, was declared on January 30th ( lass than 100 cases outside China, no deaths outside China ) . THIS is the moment when EVERYONE knows ( or can know ) : this is serious ! Or at least, this has huge potential to become serious, so we need to get prepared .

Now look at what Countries did (not) in response to this WHO declaration, and how some of them are now trying to wiggle out of responsibility, muddy the waters, and generally blame WHO .

The announcement of "Pandemic" actually is not important when it comes to WHO responsibilities in the framework of IHR, it has no bearing whatsoever .
 
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Northpin

Northpin
That doesn't change the fact that Sars-Cov-2 is a bomb with a long fuse and stealth vectors.

By January 31th it was already too late - it had spread to both US and Europe.
US, Italy, Germany, France, Spain, UK - for all Worldometer is reporting cases from 15 february - but it could had been present way ahead (up to 2 weeks incubation is really nasty)

Israel shows no cases prior 21 February - but i call that bullcrap - our 17th reported case was someone that returned from Israel on February 26th when in Israel were 2 (!) confirmed cases... kinda lol
Our first reported case was on 26 February - someone that was working for an Italian that was confirmed Covid AFTER he left our country. The said 71yo Italian citizen was in our country between 18-22 February and he was already a carrier/spreader (Italy had 3 reported cases on Feb 18)

Isn't obvious that at the end of January it was all over the world already?
 

Factabulous

Factabulous
Northpin said:
That doesn't change the fact that Sars-Cov-2 is a bomb with a long fuse and stealth vectors.

By January 31th it was already too late - it had spread to both US and Europe.
US, Italy, Germany, France, Spain, UK - for all Worldometer is reporting cases from 15 february - but it could had been present way ahead (up to 2 weeks incubation is really nasty)

Israel shows no cases prior 21 February - but i call that bullcrap - our 17th reported case was someone that returned from Israel on February 26th when in Israel were 2 (!) confirmed cases... kinda lol
Our first reported case was on 26 February - someone that was working for an Italian that was confirmed Covid AFTER he left our country. The said 71yo Italian citizen was in our country between 18-22 February and he was already a carrier/spreader (Italy had 3 reported cases on Feb 18)

Isn't obvious that at the end of January it was all over the world already?
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First US death 6th Feb apparently

www.bbc.co.uk

Coronavirus: First US deaths weeks earlier than thought

Two newly identified cases in California are now believed to be the earliest virus deaths in the US.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
 

Para Handy

Para Handy
Robin of Spiritwood said:
..
However, if the medicine has a benefit, we should be able to detect something positive, to some degree.
It's possible that the dose ranges are not right, or they give it only to dire cases, skewing the death rates.

It's also possible that in uncontrolled trials reported before, the majority of cases are likely going to recover. Making it look good.

Till there's a clear study that has a better survival rate, better recovery time, or less ICU admissions as a met endpoint, we shouldn't be using this medicine outside of a study. Not even for compassionate usage, as there's now a higher death rate popping up. That is a PR shot through the heart, but I agree with your thinking: it isn't the scientific answer we need.
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You might not have heard about this:

www.theguardian.com

Top vaccine expert claims he was fired for resisting Trump on hydroxychloroquine

Rick Bright, who directed key government agency, tells New York Times refusal to embrace unproven treatment led to departure
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

One quote from the ousted medic:

“I insisted that these drugs be provided only to hospitalised patients with confirmed Covid-19 while under the supervision of a physician. These drugs have potentially serious risks associated with them, including increased mortality observed in some recent studies in patients with Covid-19.

“Sidelining me in the middle of this pandemic and placing politics and cronyism ahead of science puts lives at risk and stunts national efforts to safely and effectively address this urgent public health crisis.”

(My emphasis)

Politics trumps science.
 
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