Probably over all our 'pay grades' (it's certainly over mine) but can you charge VAT on a 'pledge'? I thought VAT was only chargable on goods and services.
I could (very very well) be wrong!
Star Citizen Discussion Thread v11
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Probably over all our 'pay grades' (it's certainly over mine) but can you charge VAT on a 'pledge'? I thought VAT was only chargable on goods and services.
I could (very very well) be wrong!
What is a "pledge" anyway. Pretentious wording right there. And if it has VAT charged I guess it is a good or service.
Alpha game is just an alpha game.
The final game doesn't yet exist - there is no launch date for either SC or Sq42 - so cannot be objectively discussed.
It's not a game. It's a scam.
Chris Roberts bank manager begs to differ,with so many shell company's you can bet they're siphoning off profits,theirs so much effectively free cash floating around,you can bet the Calders are in it for the profits.
Oh, but for the matter of refunds they claim it's been delivered already.
Alpha game is just an alpha game.
The final game doesn't yet exist - there is no launch date for either SC or Sq42 - so cannot be objectively discussed.
Squadron 42 hasn't been delivered yet, so is an easy Consumer Rights claim.
Star Citizen needs more effort for a Consumer Rights claim, but I know UK, EU, and Aus laws can force the refund if wanted. The launched-game Star Citizen hasn't been launched, only an incomplete Alpha. Could a 2018 backer who spent £££ on ships force a refund? I don't know. But a backer from earlier years certainly can.
Crowdfunding small print binned as Retro Computers Ltd loses court refund action
Contract of sale formed between company and backer, not Indiegogo, rules judge
www.theregister.co.uk
Crowdfunding refund judgment doesn't quite open the floodgates
It's a pointer – not a cast-iron legal precedent
www.theregister.co.uk
Vague release dates for pre-orders banned in Germany
Germany has banned vague release dates for pre-orders.
www.eurogamer.net
You could summarise scepticism about SC in lots of pithy ways:
- 'Deeply improbable combination of endgame features is deeply improbable.'
- 'Spending big money on items that may never exist is an interesting use of your time.'
- 'Expecting Chris Roberts to achieve his ambitious pitch, just like he didn't with Freelancer, is an interesting historical perspective.'
- 'Rolling scope creep makes a difficult job even less achievable for engineers & game designers.'
- 'P2W makes for crappy game design if you're not a whale.'
- 'The "looks first" MO of SC has been a regular impediment to progress, but transmits the errant impression of an imminent game .'
- 'Toilet gameplay is never good gameplay.'
- 'Nothing works reliably. Not even the rocks. This is not a great sign.'
And on and on. Summarising the key issues in a pithy phrase is a fun game in itself
Normally it's a combination of such factors. But sure, if you like...
'Their current inability to create the desired technology and gameplay quality is not proof that said technology and gameplay will arrive'.
Sure.
Nothing unusual about thinking that. What's more unusual is the belief amongst some fans that a sunny endgame is a likely outcome, and that all that is required is time. And a bit of healthy pledging
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It can remain only avialable by CIG, nothing wrong with that. All they have to do is change it from being a pledge to being a purchase and to say "this is release". At that point consumer protection laws kick in and is can be critcised as a product rather than a dream of a product.
This is why it won't happen
They're covered b
This goes contrary to EU consumer protection law, which for folks here overrides any small r
What about the "game packages?"
Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
... all that is required is time. And a bit of healthy pledging
How much longer than 8-9 years, and how much more than 280 (+63) million wasted, I wonder it will take for the community to realize that there are maybe, just maybe, some tiny critical issues with CIG´s competency and management to get this done?
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No, the whole shtick here is nothing to do with alpha being alpha. Alpha being alpha would be fine. Suggest you go read through 415 pages of forum posts to catch up
I guess it's the same psychologic case than when you've waited for your bus long enough you could already be at home if you went on foot to begin with.
But I'm star child...
Yeah 11 versions of the same thread and you can try bashing it all you want but its because of these gems that crop up once in a while that make it totally worth it and why I keep sticking around.
And I have no doubt this will happen once CIG releases Star Citizen. How many people just try to avoid the stress and keep concentrating on keeping the mindgymnastics going to not go full rage mode? Once there is a clear result that cannot be waved away or fluffed up with all kinds of nonsense that seems to be utterly acceptable under the its-alpha mantra people will come around with "hold on now....what?" and (hopefully) will react stronger then with just strong-worded posts. If any of the folks who dumped 5 digits and more into this mess think hes not getting what he paid for or better, decides he was being scammed (oh no....the irony) getting a lawyer and taking legal steps isnt so far out. Of course it ll be too little too late. At that point people will neither get a game nor their money back....because they sat on their hands too long nodding their heads like good little bob-heads screaming down any and all legit criticism and hard questions.
Maybe bashing ED some more will help to distract from the obvious red flag? Or maybe not I dont know, I guess the focus on ED is natural in this place when white knights think they can "score one" on all the sorry haters.
My opinion? a whole lot longer. Scientology is still going strong and one of the biggest scams in history is past its 2000 year date so with frequent refacturing Star Citizen has the potential to becoming an alpha for generations. Scams and cults are popping up all over the place and despite past examples revealing the issues theres always people who like to think "it ll be different this time". The payerbase (backer base?) has already been reduced to the hardcore and thick-skinned.....individuals who are able to endure pain and suffering without much whining and they keep the project afloat. Why outside investors seem to be interested to invest more millions into the project is something only they (and CIG) know but it certainly is not because Star Citizen is such a great game or will become one. With the recent influx of shilling for this mess I am not surprised that new blood is entering the alpha (no reason to doubt the level-headed participants reporting this) but almost none of them will have the same qualities as the people who endured and adapted to CIGs abuse over years. So Spectrum lighting up and more and new "haters" popping up is not a surprise but a logical consequence. Star Citizens "meta-game" has been shut-down-the-haters for years already and dishonesty and deception are choice tools in this ongoing skirmish. Why should all that change? The new people buying into Star Citizen, currently celebrated as welcoming additions will soon become fresh fodder for the ranks of the "haters" when they realize how slow-paced or subpar this alpha really is. Some individuals also admitted reading from all the "haters" all the time keeps them going and spending so you see....there isnt even a game necessary to keep this going. The skirmish itself is enough to keep adding fuel (aka drama). And because Star Citizen doesnt need to prove its qualities, it just needs to refuse to die....thats something that can be easily accomplished even tho the project isnt going anywhere in that case. So if you cannot present some outstanding quality that would actually help you with your case you sure as hell can taunt the opposition with "90 days tops" comments all the while sidestepping the real issue at hands ^^
Great example
Who hasnt been standing at the stop waiting trying to decide if walking is faster then waiting another minute? And who doesnt know the feeling when you finally decide to start walking and the buss passes you a couple minutes later when you are still an hour away from home? SC backers laughing it off telling you they will point and laugh at you when SC finally arrives at the goal while you are busy trudding along fail to realize that its a new day already and the people they argue with are the ones who have been passing them multiple times already.....all because they cannot admit they made the wrong decision and are still standing at the bus stop.And the last line of defense, the notorious "I m having the fun of my life" reeks like the justification drug addicts use in order to keep using knowing full well its bad for them. How are you going to break that last wall? You cannot. And drug addicts die every day because of that. So whoever remains on the "Star Citizen is better then any already released AAA game" defense is someone who will never change his tune....probably not even when Chris Roberts would go on stage stating "yes, it was a scam, we never were near completition and we kept selling you a dream, this isnt going to happen". They will find a way to keep the dream alive.
But after 8 years we do have enough material in the open to allow people to steer clear of this mess. Arguments and skirmishes are to be found everywhere so whoever does a little research will stumble across the inconcistencies and the red flags and can make an educated decision to get involved or not. And while most encounters today are a far cry away from actual discussions, usually consisting of taunts or short personal attacks they point out the underlying issue and direct interested people to the archived discussions where years were observed and analyzed in real time. Almost noone will start at version 1 of this topic and go through thousands and thousands of posts but if you chose to jump in without the research you are just ill-informed and probably have next to no case to stand on.....like most of the new WKs popping up once in a while. Personally I am not "saving" anybody from losing money and in some cases I m actually happy with people enjoying this alpha....its the least they can do after all the money and goodwill they ve spent.
Its just nice to sit back and enjoy the show nowadays knowing I have no money on the line and my preachings are confirmed every month and year while the notorious "just wait, its coming, next patch will show you" claims are ending in the "forgotten and refactored" bin. Waiting for the next guy who thinks he has all the answers trying to tell us off by calling us names and bashing ED as if that is somehow relevant to all this ^^
May I propose for addition to your list:
- 300M and 8 years later, and still in buggy (pre-)alpha suggests a game with a near zero chance of successful release anytime soon, or indeed ever.
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