If you cant afford it, dont pay for it, simple. Don't rubbish content you cannot afford. Thats like rubbishing someone that can afford a Porsche but only has finance for a Toyota.
Fdev have been giving us free stuff for 5 fricken years man
ANNOUNCEMENT Elite Dangerous: Odyssey Announcement
- Status
Fdev have been giving us free stuff for 5 fricken years man
Truly bummed to hear about the lack of VR support as I primarily play in VR, as much as I do understand it is probably really difficult to bridge the gap between VR cockpit to on foot. I want to say something though, since I have read a lot of replies and tweets/reddit posts around this, mentioning how No Man's Sky has "figured this out", heaping praise on Hello Game's for the ability to have both FPS and flight in VR. This is just my opinion of course, but I think it is worth doing some compare/contrast here.
I really do enjoy NMS and currently play it exclusively in VR. But NMS is WAY more focused on base building and resource collecting in first person than actual combat, and what combat that does exist is powerfully shallow. This is not a complaint with NMS, but it is a characteristic of the game. Basically, I don't think it's really reasonable to say the NMS in VR is something to hold up as criticism of FDev for not having the ability to get VR into the new expansion content. If anything, the NMS VR implementation is a perfect example of some of the severe challenges in getting an FPS to Ship/Vehicle gameplay transition perfect, which NMS is very very very far from. Again, I want to re-iterate, I do play and enjoy NMS, pretty much exclusively in VR but Elite would have a significantly higher bar to hit IMHO in terms of polish than NMS just because of the difference in how the games are structured and play out. The two games' design goals are just so drastically different.
If Odyssey has only the level of combat that NMS has.. well for one, i'd be really surprised but also, it would be a monumental failure based on what they are marketing it is as right now. HL:Alyx is, my #1 favorite in terms of FPS combat w.r.t. level of polish and ability to enjoyably engage in combat (not that is doesn't also have a few rough spots). And just for some perspective, somewhere near that level of polish is what I'd expect from FDev for this if they were going to do it right. And Alyx took.. what.. 3 years to develop? And it was developed from the ground up solely around that specific game play design and exclusively for VR. I love VR and I want more games to play in VR, but I can't blame Frontier for not focusing on that as the market for it is still quite small, and the game needs to support non-VR as well to be viable, that's just being real here.
Also, and I'm gonna be blunt, the VR flight controls in NMS are incredibly bad. I have close to a 100 hours in NMS, 90 of which are VR exclusively. I enjoy the game clearly, but going into flight in VR, after having over 1000 hours in VR elite with my HOTAS.. these two experiences could not be further from each other in terms of... well in terms of everything. Flying my spaceship in NMS in VR is painfully annoying. I have managed to become proficient enough in space combat in NMS so I don't die when I am forced to fight pirates, but I nearly gave up on the game when I first had to fly because of how bad it is. Their AI is profoundly simplistic, and extremely forgiving which is honestly the only only reason I can tolerate it. And to be honest, I have gone out of my way to avoid even using space ships unless I really have to. The space flight in NMS is truly one of it's weakest points. If I had to choose between pancake in Odyssey OR having only a direct copy of the NMS VR flight model to use, I'd 100% pick pancake mode every time.
I really do enjoy NMS and currently play it exclusively in VR. But NMS is WAY more focused on base building and resource collecting in first person than actual combat, and what combat that does exist is powerfully shallow. This is not a complaint with NMS, but it is a characteristic of the game. Basically, I don't think it's really reasonable to say the NMS in VR is something to hold up as criticism of FDev for not having the ability to get VR into the new expansion content. If anything, the NMS VR implementation is a perfect example of some of the severe challenges in getting an FPS to Ship/Vehicle gameplay transition perfect, which NMS is very very very far from. Again, I want to re-iterate, I do play and enjoy NMS, pretty much exclusively in VR but Elite would have a significantly higher bar to hit IMHO in terms of polish than NMS just because of the difference in how the games are structured and play out. The two games' design goals are just so drastically different.
If Odyssey has only the level of combat that NMS has.. well for one, i'd be really surprised but also, it would be a monumental failure based on what they are marketing it is as right now. HL:Alyx is, my #1 favorite in terms of FPS combat w.r.t. level of polish and ability to enjoyably engage in combat (not that is doesn't also have a few rough spots). And just for some perspective, somewhere near that level of polish is what I'd expect from FDev for this if they were going to do it right. And Alyx took.. what.. 3 years to develop? And it was developed from the ground up solely around that specific game play design and exclusively for VR. I love VR and I want more games to play in VR, but I can't blame Frontier for not focusing on that as the market for it is still quite small, and the game needs to support non-VR as well to be viable, that's just being real here.
Also, and I'm gonna be blunt, the VR flight controls in NMS are incredibly bad. I have close to a 100 hours in NMS, 90 of which are VR exclusively. I enjoy the game clearly, but going into flight in VR, after having over 1000 hours in VR elite with my HOTAS.. these two experiences could not be further from each other in terms of... well in terms of everything. Flying my spaceship in NMS in VR is painfully annoying. I have managed to become proficient enough in space combat in NMS so I don't die when I am forced to fight pirates, but I nearly gave up on the game when I first had to fly because of how bad it is. Their AI is profoundly simplistic, and extremely forgiving which is honestly the only only reason I can tolerate it. And to be honest, I have gone out of my way to avoid even using space ships unless I really have to. The space flight in NMS is truly one of it's weakest points. If I had to choose between pancake in Odyssey OR having only a direct copy of the NMS VR flight model to use, I'd 100% pick pancake mode every time.
I feel less crazy now. Thank you!
I'll go back to quietly shedding real world tears over the loss of my favorite virtual past time.
You haven't lost it yet
Yeah, I'm just trying to point out that each 'mode' of the game dictates what you do and don't have access to. Odyssey not having VR will likely work the same in that regard by just not having it enabled for any part of the game while that particular module is enabled.
![[VR] Dr Gentech](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/175/175740.jpg?1623198898){kind=avatar}
God damn this is so disappointing... No VR in a VR game sold on a VR storefront and no certainty on whether it's ever coming or not? Saying "no VR at launch" doesn't make any sense without also saying VR will come in a later update, if that's the case just tell us. I was a day one buy for this expansion, now I don't know if I can bring myself to do it. I was so excited for New Era and now it's just saddening. Can you guys please hire some dedicated VR developers or acquihire a small studio or something?
Yes, I had to laugh at that myself. I am on the fence about Space Legs myself-always have been-but I know that I can stick to SRV's & Ships if I don't want to partake of the new content.
If making VR work would delay the game I understand why it might not be at launch as that allows the people who are willing to play in 2D to get the game faster. The only issue is that they haven’t promised to add VR, even for existing modes.
I’d be cool with them first releasing Odyssey with a VR mode that disables space legs but lets you enjoy the new planets with srvs and ships in VR. Then at least Odyssey would be playable for VR gamers.
As for space legs, we don’t necessarily need Half Life Alyx. Think more like Resident Evil 7 where you can switch between VR and flatscreen and have the same controls for walking gameplay.
If fdev could do a phased VR launch that would be reasonable.
Phase 1: No VR (skip this if possible)
Phase 2: VR w/o space legs content
Phase 3: VR space legs with resident evil 7 style controls
Phase 4: VR space legs with Half Life Alyx style controls (much less urgent, maybe not worth the resources until more people have VR)
I’d be cool with them first releasing Odyssey with a VR mode that disables space legs but lets you enjoy the new planets with srvs and ships in VR. Then at least Odyssey would be playable for VR gamers.
As for space legs, we don’t necessarily need Half Life Alyx. Think more like Resident Evil 7 where you can switch between VR and flatscreen and have the same controls for walking gameplay.
If fdev could do a phased VR launch that would be reasonable.
Phase 1: No VR (skip this if possible)
Phase 2: VR w/o space legs content
Phase 3: VR space legs with resident evil 7 style controls
Phase 4: VR space legs with Half Life Alyx style controls (much less urgent, maybe not worth the resources until more people have VR)
If they are using a new game engine for Odyssey, it probably won't support VR at all until they bake it in - like the current one did back in beta.
Hello ECity! Yes, I have made a lot of assumptions. We are a long long ways off to having defined answers and a set in stone architecture. 6 months from now they could completely scrap the whole thing and start over too. They did with the Fleet Carriers after all.
Although I just want to mention I was just pointing out a flaw of the peer to peer networking system. If we wing up as a 4 player group for bounty hunting in the game as it is right now. The number of ships for targets which are all NPC's, are shared across the 4 wings clients. But any desync in data flow between the players will cause forms of havoc. The reference to pvp with rubber banding is just a part of the problem with peer to peer networking.
I was not trying to make the assumption that they would have pvp missions in the previous post. But now that that elephant is in the room. I think it would be in Frontier's Stockholder's interests for them to cater to that environment. It won't be the only one with Frontier at least. But it is a solid design if they can create a competitive and active game with the right variables.
Even if they do go that route, I still won't have interest. If they stick to pve game design as most of Elite is. Then I might have some interest. But it has to have purpose. Fleet carriers for instance have next to zero real purpose in the game. They are just a thing that costs a lot of money and will barely be able to make a profit. They will provide the largest benefit to explorers. Second to extreme bounty hunting at a larger cost because you could still fly to turn in those bounties.
So far, Frontier has not told us why we are getting "space legs". In fact, I don't even think this will be "Space Legs". I think this will be legs on light to not atmospheric planets. They have not even said we are getting atmospheric landing. They are all wearing air tight helmets and suits.
If they design this system so that I can infiltrate some place to steal 20 grade 5 mats of my choice for my target and then escape with them. I would find this a lot more interesting. They also need to design the system so that it scales from solo to full wing groups. Forcing people to have to group up isn't what everyone will want to do.
This just isn't something Frontier has done in their wheelhouse before. So I do not have a lot of faith in their ability to deliver the same quality I would expect and want from a FPS game. I welcome being wrong on their delivery. If it completely wow's me, I will be back in the forums to remark how wrong I was. But until then, this bar is not set low either.
Frontier Developments!
Hello!
I am quite puzzled with your regards to not supporting VR for Odyssey when it comes to spaceships and srvs. Those are still a seated experience, so I am very confused about this. I can totaly understand that you can not come up with a great way to support legged FPS gameplay with VR headsets. Most VR players are not that interested in legged FPS gameplay anyway, so.... can you please find a way for VR players to enjoy Odyssey but are locked out from space-legs?
That,I think, would go a LONG way for VR players of this game.
Thanks for listening.
Hello!
I am quite puzzled with your regards to not supporting VR for Odyssey when it comes to spaceships and srvs. Those are still a seated experience, so I am very confused about this. I can totaly understand that you can not come up with a great way to support legged FPS gameplay with VR headsets. Most VR players are not that interested in legged FPS gameplay anyway, so.... can you please find a way for VR players to enjoy Odyssey but are locked out from space-legs?
That,I think, would go a LONG way for VR players of this game.
Thanks for listening.
![[VR] Mad Life Crisis](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/232/232989.jpg?1592151565){kind=avatar}
Not to mention, "When".
Last edited:
I first bought Elite Dangerous upon hearing about how it was built for VR from the ground up. Being a fan of the first two games clear back to the 80's, and looking for something to entice me into VR, the idea of an old favorite in VR with modern graphics and massively improved realism, was a mouth-watering prospect. As a result, I have spent several years and no small amount of money on getting a good VR setup, specifically for this game. I actually bought an Oculus Rift CV1 specifically for the game, went through two gaming PC builds, and just recently updated my headset..
Looking at the video for Elite Odyssey, My first thought was how amazing this was going to be in VR, and how it looked like we would finally have the best of both worlds, with Elite now closing the gap between it and Star Citizen. The latter, no matter how appealing in appearance, was always a non-starter for me, due to no native VR. The prospect of finally landing on atmospheric worlds in VR seemed like it was finally around the corner.
A day later, we hear that there will be no VR support at launch, which really shook me, given that VR has been an integral part of the game and a showcase for VR from the beginning. This worries, me, as it suggests that if it does get implemented, it may not be quite as slick as something that was designed in from the ground up. More worrying is that it will not materialize at all.
I have struggled for some time now, trying to imagine a first person VR implementation of walking that did not lessen the immersion. Having said that, however, i had always considered that any implementation would be more immersive than going back to a monitor for me. Even if I am still sitting in my chair, and moving my character with teleportation, or stepped-motion simulated whilst holding down a key or button, it would still be preferable to doing the same on a monitor.
More than space legs, however, what I had been waiting for in VR was the day that I would finally be able to land on atmospheric worlds. I do hope that you can find some way to add VR support for this, even if not space legs.
I am trying to remain hopeful that VR support will be added back in, but until then, as a 100% VR player, I will most definitely be holding off, rather than pouncing on this at release, as I was previously so eager to do.
When it comes down to it, Elite holds the market corner for a realistic, simulator-style space experience in VR. No Man's sky is too much like an arcade game, Vendetta Online is not bad, but very dated and certainly doesn't hold a candle to Elite. Quite frankly, nothing does in VR. Please do not throw in the towel for VR in Elite going forward. You have a lot of loyal VR players out there who are going to be so disappointed if you do.
Sincerely and respectfully,
Alan Bell
Not to sound rude, but have you ever played the game in VR or any other game? Implementing VR in Elite Dangerous with Space Legs is doable and it’s been done through other space sim titles with Space Legs. It can be done
Couldnt have said it better myself
I'm only play the game on VR, but I understand the problems with making a FPS in the game. So I think I'd save money for a widescreen.
![[VR] zodd](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/163/163942.jpg?1625205201){kind=avatar}
Gang, all this bashing about leaves us right back where we started, banging against the walls with bruises to boot. In fact, it gives FD the advantage of PR! As an old marketing adage goes- all feedback, even negative feedback increases presence.
Let's all stop feeding the dragon for now. The chips will fall where they may. Take a rest, go for a walk and leave it be. Someone here said that there will be other games coming that encompass what we VR players want. That is a good thing to cling to!
zodd
Let's all stop feeding the dragon for now. The chips will fall where they may. Take a rest, go for a walk and leave it be. Someone here said that there will be other games coming that encompass what we VR players want. That is a good thing to cling to!
zodd
No VR, No Wishlist. It's a metric the higher-ups might actually care about.
![[VR] 0m3g488](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/152/152645.jpg?1623545251){kind=avatar}
No VR support = Trash. Period. They could fix the instancing issues we see with squadrons. The could give us a front seat on the FC during jump. They could add gas giants. Cave systems. More SRVs. Oceans with submarines. Improved stellar phenomena. Improved planetary features.
So many things that could have been done within VR... but no. They're going to take what is, despite its many flaws, a great and promising VR space flight/ combat sim and give us another incomplete feature. I KNEW space legs was going to be a bust. That's why I pushed for the other features first. Elite and Frontier are not ready for space legs.
No VR support and this nonsense where solo players can affect the BGS... I might just have to go back to playing EVE. EVE is far more dangerous than Elite.
So many things that could have been done within VR... but no. They're going to take what is, despite its many flaws, a great and promising VR space flight/ combat sim and give us another incomplete feature. I KNEW space legs was going to be a bust. That's why I pushed for the other features first. Elite and Frontier are not ready for space legs.
No VR support and this nonsense where solo players can affect the BGS... I might just have to go back to playing EVE. EVE is far more dangerous than Elite.
Last edited:
- Status