What level of compromise are VR players willing to temporarily accept in Odyssey?

[Arioch]

I never counted on roomscale and motion controls for on-foot portions of the game, so I'd be fine using a mouse and keyboard and nothing more complicated than the image going into our headsets correctly. I always imagined it'd be similar to Subnautica, and they wouldn't do the effort that NMS's devs put into things.

Which is fine, it'd be our own choice whether to use that form of VR for on-foot gameplay. I've done it in other FPS's, it's not really a problem and I don't need special controls or fancy VR-controller stuff for it.

I honestly thought that any on-foot VR implementation would be akin to Subnautica or the Alien: Isolation mod - same controls as the flatscreen game but with VR headlook enabled.

I’d still want that, even if it came with a massive disclaimer saying it was a experimental mode, needed a beast of a computer, and you’re not allowed to complain about it on the forums!

 

[GunnerBill]

I had imagined that VR in a FPS would work like mouselook already does and you just KBM around the world as normal.

Did I completely misunderstand the mechanics here? If so how???

I definitely do not want and of this standing up "roomscale" rubbish. I want to do this sitting down.

 

[[VR] wi03016]

I don't want a perfect FPS VR realisation but skip VR for Odyssey makes absolute no sense.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

What would be the point of motion controllers in Elite, what would it add? A gamepad will do just fine, the biggest challenge would be the UI.

The motion controllers in your hands would act as guns in FPS mode, as in other VR FPS games. It would be a great feature, but I’d be fine without it in the interim if VR was enabled in Odyssey.

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

As a VR player I can accept not to be able to play the "legs" part of the game in VR.

The best solution would be:
1. I purchase Odyssey
2. At the launcher I can launch Horizons with new planet tech, atmospheric planets, new light engine and so on. No Legs and no additional features related to Legs.
3. If I want to play the full Odyssey experience I launch instead Odyssey witout VR.

So here I simply ask to integrate atmospheric planets in Horizons once I purchased the Odyssey expansion.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

They probably looked at the numbers of concurrent VR players of Elite and figured that the development wasnt worth the effort. The language they're using to describe the insurmountable technical hurdles is so vague though that I cant possibly believe any of it. They simply dont think it's worth their time. But they arent looking at the trends. VR has hit critical mass. What are they going to do when PS5 and xbox x series reveal their VR capabilities shortly after release?

I think that VR support in FPS was given lower priority than the new features themselves for this release, but not necessarily a low priority overall, which is why they appear to be considering VR support in future, according to their own statements.

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

I can't say I'm entirely surprised by the annnouncement (at some level) and didn't necessarily want VR support for the walking component anyway. With the reveal that Odyssey is (apparently) going to include atmospheric landings tho' - at a very basic level what I want is to be able to fly my spaceship over the surface of a planet, in VR, with blue skies above me. I think the experience of that (with whatever other terrain improvements Odyssey brings ... perhaps even weather?) would be an absolutely sensational VR experience and something that will be hard to bear if it's not supported.

Initially this is how I interpreted FD's VR statement. I imagined a situation where there'd be a moment when you get out of the pilot seat (perhaps via a fade to black, perhaps via a 3rd person animation) and that that would be the moment when, at launch at least, it would say "sorry - VR no supported". I could live with that. It never occured to me that VR users might be excluded from the basic improvements to the graphics engine, the new terrain and the lighting and sky colours provided by atmospheric worlds. I assumed it was just a technical issue to do with the practicalities of locomotion and other "legs" related issues.

I'm currently still trying to get an answer from FD to the question I posted in the Odyssey announcement thread.

Will people in VR still be able to fly space ships around beneath a blue sky?

Right at the end of last night's livestream Zac spotted my request for clarification on this issue and I'm hoping that he's going to try and provide an answer if at all possible.

Yeah, that is the sensible thing to ask. Actually I posted a similar suggestion with the additional deckaration that I would be willing to pay for a limited Odyssey VR extension - to provide a business case.

 

[GunnerBill]

..
2. At the launcher I can launch Horizons with new planet tech, atmospheric planets, new light engine and so on. No Legs and no additional features related to Legs.
3. If I want to play the full Odyssey experience I launch instead Odyssey witout VR.

I'd hope it'd be more refined than that.

1. Land on planet in VR.
2. Initiate EVA and fade out from VR.
3. Remove headset & continue on monitor.

 

[CMDR Yates]

Label it experimental and unsupported with no comfort options like teleportation in open play and only have it in solo or group. The team will have their hands full with everything else breaking at first, get to improvements based on feedback later in 2021.

I'll settle for pared down graphics to hit 90 fps, full locomotion with all kinds of options for turning.

The grizzled old hands will be able to cope, but don't make a big production of it as the second coming of VR bliss, upfront state it's not going to be doable for those with sim sickness issues. "Frontier values your feedback and will be monitoring the responses for future fine-tuning of this much-desired, but very difficult-to-implement feature" or some gibberish.

Of course there will be gnashing of teeth, but I think ultimately that will lead to less whining and moaning than not having any VR support in one of the flagship VR experiences. Plus I'll get to enjoy it, and I'm selfish.

I think this is probably exactly what will happen at launch.

Even if it is, though, they will probably wait till closer to the time to announce it. Knowing how things go, it's probably better, from a business perspective, to under-promise and over-deliver.

Hopefully they're just expectation managing right at the moment: tell everyone it's not supported now, the worst of the outrage spills out months from launch, announce it as an unsupported experimental mode just before launch, launch the product alongside an upswing of goodwill at even a limited implementation, rather than alongside an explosion of salt as folk discover on-foot VR is gruelling and unusuable for some people at first release.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Personally, the compromise I'm willing to make is VR being functional in the game. By functional, I mean it does what it's supposed to do: gives me stereoscopic vision and head tracking. This might not be the best experience in FPS mode, but what I want from Odyssey for is atmospheric planets to land on, not FPS gunplay. I can decide for myself if I want to give the FPS a whirl in VR. This would tide me over until they can give us something better.

As for what that better would be...

While I would love to have a completely functional room scale VR experience (see Skyrim, Fallout 4, Vivecraft) in this game, if Frontier isn't willing to develop this, I'd rather the FPS game play be done on a virtual desktop, rather than a seated VR experience like Subnautica. The last thing I want is how NMS implemented their VR, which is kind of a half-functioning room scale experience.

 

[B1rdy]

I honestly thought that any on-foot VR implementation would be akin to Subnautica or the Alien: Isolation mod - same controls as the flatscreen game but with VR headlook enabled.

I’d still want that, even if it came with a massive disclaimer saying it was a experimental mode, needed a beast of a computer, and you’re not allowed to complain about it on the forums!

Have you actually tried playing AI in VR? What do you think about those animations that force head movement upon the player? Why do you think most VR titels avoid forced VR movement?

I had imagined that VR in a FPS would work like mouselook already does and you just KBM around the world as normal.

Did I completely misunderstand the mechanics here? If so how???

It would simply be unplayable for most players. If actual headmovent is detached from the movement you get to see in the headset, the majority of players will feel sick due to that. It is maybe hard to comprehend, if you did not have tried VR, so let me tell you it can be very disorienting. Even if it does not affect you at first, it can make you feel pretty sick after some time.

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

I'd hope it'd be more refined than that.

1. Land on planet in VR.
2. Initiate EVA and fade out from VR.
3. Remove headset & continue on monitor.

This would be perfection, but I believe it is unlikely.

 

[Dagwit]

Like most of the other posters here I'd be fine with flatscreen FPS if I could still have ships and vehicles in VR with the new planetary atmospherics and other graphics upgrades - after all, I drove the SRV flatscreen for two years until I finally managed to train out the motion sickness.

But, frankly, until someone from Frontier explicitly tells me otherwise, I'm going to assume that they looked at the state of VR in 2018 and said to themselves, "VR's dying, we're not going to waste any resources on VR support in the engine rewrite"; and that reversing that decision now in 2020, when VR is on the up again, would require a major effort.

So I'm not optimistic about getting vehicular VR support in Odyssey.

Of course, I'd love to be proven wrong. But until I am, I'm looking at the horribly expensive HP workstation I bought at the end of last year with my Reverb and thinking, if I have to play flatscreen this machine would do a really good job of running FS 2020.

 

[Crank Larson]

Looking at other games, that were ported to VR like the Serious Sam series or Hellblade, you can see a number of changes had to be done to make them work in VR. The player movement and mobility is pretty different for VR player. Even with locomotion considered it is hard to find a common ground and create working challenges for both types at the same time.
Both mentioned titles show how a mix of flat and VR could be accomplished. Hellblade for instance shows cinematics with lots of camera movement on a big screen in VR - sounds weird but works pretty good. For Serious Sam the dev recognized VR players are worse at moving, dodging and shooting at the same time, so the gave them the ability to dual wield weapons and a specific mode to enable them to shoot projectiles, that needed to be dodged in the regular game.
If flat and VR players are merged compromises have to be made. But since ED is full of compromises by design, I don't think it would hurt the FPS part that much, if it was made compatible to VR.

I didn't realise Hellblade was available in VR, so thank you.

 

[Crank Larson]

the industry has standardised on teleporting movement to avoid motion sickness,

Has it? I don't use that option in any of the games I've played (e.g. Fallout, Subnautica, NMS). I much prefer being able to run around using the XBox controller and just use the headset to look around. Though I am lucky to not suffer from motion sickness at all.

 

[Arioch]

Have you actually tried playing AI in VR? What do you think about those animations that force head movement upon the player? Why do you think most VR titles avoid forced VR movement?

Yes, the whole game and the DLCs. Enjoyed it immensely, in a wobbly-kneed fashion on occasion.

No nausea issues, but if that would worry you in EDO then it could be added to the massive caveat at the start

Edit: the modder, Nibre, sounds like they’re going to do some more work on the mod, once they’ve finished getting VR working with the Master Chief Collection (oh yuss!)

I didn't realise Hellblade was available in VR, so thank you.

Great game for VR - the voices whispering just behind you, all the time, very cleverly done.

 

[Crank Larson]

I'd rather the FPS game play be done on a virtual desktop, rather than a seated VR experience like Subnautica. The last thing I want is how NMS implemented their VR, which is kind of a half-functioning room scale experience.

I'd rather not a virtual desktop, but would be happy to stick with an XBox controller and essentially VR headlook. I liked the way Subnautica did it, though it had a few bugs they never got round to fixing.

 

[Nadreck]

We don't actually know what the problem is: insufficient information (as usual).

Given that VR already works fine in Horizons for driving around on a planet in an SRV, there are basically two possibilities:

1. The improved graphics in Odyssey are currently incompatible with VR systems.

2. The different perspectives etc involved in the implementation of spacelegs haven't been translated into the VR experience.

Of course, both could be true.

If 1 is true, you won't be able to fly around on any of the newly-landable planets in VR, even if you don't land and get out - because the game is incapable of rendering the landscapes properly. Though this does raise the question of why they didn't implement a lower-resolution option.

If 2 is true, they could still allow VR users to visit the newly-landable planets, but disable VR when going into Legs mode.

 

[Darkfyre99]

What would be the point of motion controllers in Elite, what would it add? A gamepad will do just fine, the biggest challenge would be the UI.

Motion controllers are a natural way of engaging with a FPS style game in VR. The whole point of VR is to fully immerse yourself into the game's environment, and what is more immersive than interacting with the game with your own two hands (or at least as close as we can get to this at this time.)

Also, I don't like using gamepads, especially when I have other options, so I'm not very good with them. Which of course increases my dislike of using them.

Has it? I don't use that option in any of the games I've played (e.g. Fallout, Subnautica, NMS). I much prefer being able to run around using the XBox controller and just use the headset to look around. Though I am lucky to not suffer from motion sickness at all.

In all the VR FPS games I've played, as long as I'm able to stand up and turn my body by turning my body, I don't suffer from motion sickness.

I'd rather not a virtual desktop, but would be happy to stick with an XBox controller and essentially VR headlook. I liked the way Subnautica did it, though it had a few bugs they never got round to fixing.

To each their own.

 

[Arioch]

I'd rather not a virtual desktop, but would be happy to stick with an XBox controller and essentially VR headlook. I liked the way Subnautica did it, though it had a few bugs they never got round to fixing.

Have you looked at the “VR Enhancements” mod? It pretty much cleared up any issues I had with the game.

VR Enhancements

This mod adds features to improve the VR experience in Subnautica.

www.nexusmods.com