ANNOUNCEMENT Elite Dangerous: Odyssey Announcement

[-VR- Max Factor]

We shall see, I predict horizons will be dropped in the future when next to nobody is playing it, apart from VR users that is.

So when new players buy the game, they won't be able to buy horizons, so will never be able to land on non-atmospheric planets.

You do know that there are people that only play the base game and don't play horizons.

Dropping horizons would make zero sense as its part of the upgrade path of the game.

 

[D7]

How do I delete this comment?

 

[aRJay]

Oh it's done in the usual WTFDev fashion, drop the bomb before weekend and scurry away hopping the poop storm will pass until Monday.

The "bomb" was dropped in the middle of the week, but probably 2-3 weeks early as I suspect they were planning to drop it after next weeks update.

 

[scholesey]

You're mixing things up here so let's take it apart one by one:

1. Beta servers are put up so that beta code and player actions do not affect the live game and live servers. That's why "what happens in the beta stays in the beta". They're separate infrastructure and your commander is a snapshot of your live game, a save if you will.
2. VR is a method of rendering and doesn't affect the live game at all, only your client. Why they took it away IDK, I'm blaming Braben's stance on VR which changed from enthusiastic to "it's a family incompatible and divisive experience" or something like that. Or they cannot do FPS mode right. IDK. Anyhow, it has nothing to do with any server, in fact I would love network speeds to be so advanced to provide wireless VR ;-)

I am not saying VR is separating systems I am suggesting Odessey and horizons will be on separate systems. I can't see users moving to Odessey gaining whatever extras they are able to gain, mods that will be introduced, weapons etc etc and then go back with all those differences to horizons. I reckon they will be different systems and your single account won't be able to go back and forth. I might be wrong but I'll put 50p on it!

 

[D7]

So are people arguing about anything besides VR in this thread?

I don't think so...

 

[Requese]

I hope the Frontiers will do what's best for them. It's a shame, of course, that there will be no support for VR devices. I hope that there will be much more content for explore not only on the surface of the planets, but also in space! Thank you Frontier for your work, I hope you will make the Odyssey a great addition to the game!

 

[VR StarLightPL]

The "bomb" was dropped in the middle of the week, but probably 2-3 weeks early as I suspect they were planning to drop it after next weeks update.

The VR bomb was dropped Thursday at 4:43 PM - as per the post where they said it won't be supported in VR.

I can't see users moving to Odessey gaining whatever extras they are able to gain, mods that will be introduced, weapons etc etc and then go back with all those differences to horizons. I reckon they will be different systems and your single account won't be able to go back and forth. I might be wrong but I'll put 50p on it!

Like I told you already, programmatically that doesn't make any sense. You can do that already in Horizons - engineer some ship, then launch vanilla from the launcher. You will have all your engineered modules and your ship intact. It's the known method of getting your SRV unstuck from some terrain. You just re-launch vanilla and presto, you're in orbit.

 

[Axacuatl]

Which part of nonsensical ramble is based on any evidence?!

Having 3 seasons between 2014 and, shall we say, at least 2023, apparently is what you expected and are absolutely happy with. Good for you.

I am sure that you will be ecstatic about those atmospheric landings too, which seemingly only will add some dust, blur and a blue instead of black sky to the same dead landscapes. And space legs, cool - so I can move around like in an SRV, just much slower.

I guess we just have very different standards then.

 

[UltimateGrr]

The "bomb" was dropped in the middle of the week, but probably 2-3 weeks early as I suspect they were planning to drop it after next weeks update.

Yeah, someone at Frontier accidently uploaded the trailer to YouTube before they were supposed to, and the company is just sort of rolling with it at this point.

 

[scholesey]

The VR bomb was dropped Thursday at 4:43 PM - as per the post where they said it won't be supported in VR.


Like I told you already, programmatically that doesn't make any sense. You can do that already in Horizons - engineer some ship, then launch vanilla from the launcher. You will have all your engineered modules and your ship intact. It's the known method of getting your SRV unstuck from some terrain. You just re-launch vanilla and presto, you're in orbit.

Sure but Odessey is a whole new ball game. Horizons is base game plus extras, Odessey looks like a much bigger rewrite and engine change. If you can progress in Odessey and go back into horizons and see that progress I'll give you 10 LTDs to take back to Odessey.

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

The funny thing about this discussion is, that those who dismiss the complaints of VR users lightly and point to such assumptions like that it surely is going to follow, just not be there at launch (surely what FDev want us to believe so the outcry is not at max), do not get is that this is an omen about what is going to happen to this game for more and more of its parts/groups/platforms.

FDev is pulling out of Elite step by step, and one day you will look back and think that it should have been obvious that they were cutting costs on development of Elite Dangerous where they could, and it will only go downhill from here. When you guys then agonize over loss of a beloved game, say in 2 years from now, us VR users will already have dealt with this loss and be enjoying some other game which took its place.

At the end this is the cycle of life I guess, it just saddens me immensely that I think that this game deserved so much more dedication from FDev and could have been so much more. I would have gladly paid much more for the game and its extensions if they had chosen to go down this route and provided annual seasons with meaningful added value against substantial fees.

It was not to be.

By the will of Randominous, I hope you are wrong... but I suspect you are right.

Aaaactually I am not aware of any "separate servers" for Horizons, that frankly makes no sense programming-wise. Horizons is simply gated by "planetary landing macguffin" that is unavailable to non-horizons owners. Some ships I heard are only sold on planetary bases, so non-horizons owners are excluded from that too.

Old code branches do not rot by themselves if they aren't updated, so... it will be an undead state. The only thing that could "endanger" an old code branch is a mandatory security update somewhere else in the system or code that breaks something in the old code and needs to be tended to.

Certain ships are locked to horizons only, such as Beluga, Dolphin, the Alliance C series, Type 10, although strangely not the two Kraits. The reason for that is the addition of the new ships were part of the chapters of horizons. Although the Kraits came as part of beyond which I thought was meant to be for horizons players? Whatevz - I don't want to snider anyone out of any ship, including the Cobra Mk.IV I have access to.It's not planetary bases, its horizons, even in base game at Jameson Memorial you just cannot buy them, something I discovered by accident when once upon a time my SRV got stuck, switch to non horizons, docked at shin dez and couldn't buy a chieftan. Aye ok.

I've been thinking about this, odyssey only server rumour thats sprung up in the last 24hrs, and I think I can see some logic in it. Specifically - the planet from the Odessy trailer looks nothing like what we have in galaxy at the minute, very small and has a (presumably thin) atmosphere. Most planets that size do not have atmospheres, so it is plausible a new seed, or other tweaks/work to the stellar forge will be required for it to create such planets. As such there would be a different galaxy for Odessy with its new tweaked stellar forge that creates the new planets with atmospheres that its players can land on, and the OG* that we have now. So future updates bringing in new stuff would need to be adapted to the old galaxy, duplicating upkeep. If someone heavily involved with the stellar forge such as Dr.Ross could elaborate on the new planets and how they will be rendered in one of the future dev diaries / streams / newsletters etc - they could either confirm or allay that fear/suspicion.

Given what I know of how stellar forge works, well worth watching the discovery scanner stream with Dr. Ross, if we start making millions/billions of tonnes of gas adhere to certain rocky bodies this would have a shift in the balance of what matter was available for creating other bodies. So if you had a complex star system with a couple of planetary systems including 20 moons, 12 of which have an atmosphere, the 12 billion tonnes being used to create the atmosphere on the fortunate 12 might mean there was not enough material left to create the 20th moon. So it is not inconceivable that you could end up with a horizons system having an extra body that the odessy version does not, 400 billion star systems, and all those cascading changes?

Joining the dots doesn't draw a happy picture.

 

[UltimateGrr]

Given what I know of how stellar forge works, well worth watching the discovery scanner stream with Dr. Ross, if we start making millions/billions of tonnes of gas adhere to certain rocky bodies this would have a shift in the balance of what matter was available for creating other bodies. So if you had a complex star system with a couple of planetary systems including 20 moons, 12 of which have an atmosphere, the 12 billion tonnes being used to create the atmosphere on the fortunate 12 might mean there was not enough material left to create the 20th moon. So it is not inconceivable that you could end up with a horizons system having an extra body that the odessy version does not, 400 billion star systems, and all those cascading changes?

I don't think we have much to worry about here. "Metal Rich with Atmosphere" is already a planet type in Elite. Now we just get to do something with them.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I am not saying VR is separating systems I am suggesting Odessey and horizons will be on separate systems. I can't see users moving to Odessey gaining whatever extras they are able to gain, mods that will be introduced, weapons etc etc and then go back with all those differences to horizons. I reckon they will be different systems and your single account won't be able to go back and forth. I might be wrong but I'll put 50p on it!

We do with horizons and the base game. Why would Odyssey be any different?

I decide to fly my ship in the base game and I still have all my engineered modules I got in horizons.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

Sure but Odessey is a whole new ball game. Horizons is base game plus extras, Odessey looks like a much bigger rewrite and engine change. If you can progress in Odessey and go back into horizons and see that progress I'll give you 10 LTDs to take back to Odessey.

I would be very surprised if you cannot. Like said it's just game clients talk to each other and to the servers, they just exchange some JSON payloads (oversimplification) and you can write pretty much everything in there. The question is whether the other side will understand you. Think about it, if this communication was incompatible, you wouldn't instance with people on different clients and that is not the case today.

It's not planetary bases, its horizons, even in base game at Jameson Memorial you just cannot buy them, something I discovered by accident when once upon a time my SRV got stuck, switch to non horizons, docked at shin dez and couldn't buy a chieftan. Aye ok.

Given what I know of how stellar forge works, well worth watching the discovery scanner stream with Dr. Ross

Yeah I watched that too, it's very interesting. And one of the most interesting things in that stream is the information that stellar forge... runs on your PC. It's creating these planets etc. during jump animation if I remember correctly. Every time. Procedurally.

In fact, @Alec Turner was so kind to ask Dav Stott for clarification on this, and it really is like that:

Myth busting on Stellar Forge and the generation of everything from stars to rocks.

It became apparent at Lavecon that a lot of players are still under the misconception that there's some kind of database of discovered systems and worlds on a Frontier server somewhere and that when another player goes to visit these places the game client downloads this information so they see...

forums.frontier.co.uk

So, the stellar forge code will be in your client, you (probably) just won't be allowed to enter the atmosphere like currently is with ELWs.

 

[Tessa R Act]

By the will of Randominous, I hope you are wrong... but I suspect you are right.


Certain ships are locked to horizons only, such as Beluga, Dolphin, the Alliance C series, Type 10, although strangely not the two Kraits. The reason for that is the addition of the new ships were part of the chapters of horizons. Although the Kraits came as part of beyond which I thought was meant to be for horizons players? Whatevz - I don't want to snider anyone out of any ship, including the Cobra Mk.IV I have access to.It's not planetary bases, its horizons, even in base game at Jameson Memorial you just cannot buy them, something I discovered by accident when once upon a time my SRV got stuck, switch to non horizons, docked at shin dez and couldn't buy a chieftan. Aye ok.

I've been thinking about this, odyssey only server rumour thats sprung up in the last 24hrs, and I think I can see some logic in it. Specifically - the planet from the Odessy trailer looks nothing like what we have in galaxy at the minute, very small and has a (presumably thin) atmosphere. Most planets that size do not have atmospheres, so it is plausible a new seed, or other tweaks/work to the stellar forge will be required for it to create such planets. As such there would be a different galaxy for Odessy with its new tweaked stellar forge that creates the new planets with atmospheres that its players can land on, and the OG* that we have now. So future updates bringing in new stuff would need to be adapted to the old galaxy, duplicating upkeep. If someone heavily involved with the stellar forge such as Dr.Ross could elaborate on the new planets and how they will be rendered in one of the future dev diaries / streams / newsletters etc - they could either confirm or allay that fear/suspicion.

Given what I know of how stellar forge works, well worth watching the discovery scanner stream with Dr. Ross, if we start making millions/billions of tonnes of gas adhere to certain rocky bodies this would have a shift in the balance of what matter was available for creating other bodies. So if you had a complex star system with a couple of planetary systems including 20 moons, 12 of which have an atmosphere, the 12 billion tonnes being used to create the atmosphere on the fortunate 12 might mean there was not enough material left to create the 20th moon. So it is not inconceivable that you could end up with a horizons system having an extra body that the odessy version does not, 400 billion star systems, and all those cascading changes?

Joining the dots doesn't draw a happy picture.

I beg to differ:
1. the billions of tonnes of gas you quote are in the game already, they are in the mass of that planets with Atmosphere which in ED:Horizon one cannot land on.
2. my simple guess: similarly to how Horizons gives you the ability to land on that planets/moons which are accessable now, with ED:O you simply will have the ability/access to puchase a "athmo planet landing kit" instead of the ED-Horizon "planetary approach kit", allowing to land on that moon/planets as well.

 

[Cpt.Badger]

Oh it's done in the usual WTFDev fashion, drop the bomb before weekend and scurry away hopping the poop storm will pass until Monday.

Oh yeah. They are BY FAR my least favorite developer company. I do love Elite, but that's simply because of VR and no alternatives.
Their game designers are just bad and the leadership lacks any moral compass (don't get me started about all the FALSE promises made by DB, and how he treated Ian Bell). FDev support has been great though.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

Oh yeah. They are BY FAR my least favorite developer company. I do love Elite, but that's simply because of VR and no alternatives.
Their game designers are just bad and the leadership lacks any moral compass (don't get me started about all the FALSE promises made by DB, and how he treated Ian Bell). FDev support has been great though.

Eh did I really post the WT in front of FDev... I didn't want to actually, and I am sorry. It goes to show how badly disappointed I am with the VR removal, but mud slinging will just get this thread locked, so let's not go that way and instead make our voices heard.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

By the will of Randominous, I hope you are wrong... but I suspect you are right.


Certain ships are locked to horizons only, such as Beluga, Dolphin, the Alliance C series, Type 10, although strangely not the two Kraits. The reason for that is the addition of the new ships were part of the chapters of horizons. Although the Kraits came as part of beyond which I thought was meant to be for horizons players? Whatevz - I don't want to snider anyone out of any ship, including the Cobra Mk.IV I have access to.It's not planetary bases, its horizons, even in base game at Jameson Memorial you just cannot buy them, something I discovered by accident when once upon a time my SRV got stuck, switch to non horizons, docked at shin dez and couldn't buy a chieftan. Aye ok.

I've been thinking about this, odyssey only server rumour thats sprung up in the last 24hrs, and I think I can see some logic in it. Specifically - the planet from the Odessy trailer looks nothing like what we have in galaxy at the minute, very small and has a (presumably thin) atmosphere. Most planets that size do not have atmospheres, so it is plausible a new seed, or other tweaks/work to the stellar forge will be required for it to create such planets. As such there would be a different galaxy for Odessy with its new tweaked stellar forge that creates the new planets with atmospheres that its players can land on, and the OG* that we have now. So future updates bringing in new stuff would need to be adapted to the old galaxy, duplicating upkeep. If someone heavily involved with the stellar forge such as Dr.Ross could elaborate on the new planets and how they will be rendered in one of the future dev diaries / streams / newsletters etc - they could either confirm or allay that fear/suspicion.

Given what I know of how stellar forge works, well worth watching the discovery scanner stream with Dr. Ross, if we start making millions/billions of tonnes of gas adhere to certain rocky bodies this would have a shift in the balance of what matter was available for creating other bodies. So if you had a complex star system with a couple of planetary systems including 20 moons, 12 of which have an atmosphere, the 12 billion tonnes being used to create the atmosphere on the fortunate 12 might mean there was not enough material left to create the 20th moon. So it is not inconceivable that you could end up with a horizons system having an extra body that the odessy version does not, 400 billion star systems, and all those cascading changes?

Joining the dots doesn't draw a happy picture.

I'm pretty sure we will all be in the same universe, using the same steller forge seed, using the same BGS and using the same Powerplay.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

full motion 1st person in VR can be very nausea inducing.

1st person VR games generally are a pretty terrible experience.

not only your head but the mouse as well, when the point of view is competitively moved by two methods. And when you are on foot, turning quickly around is a thing you'd have to do quite often.

I use the thumb sticks in a game called Gorn to move and turn. Let's face it, you cannot physically move very far with a VR headset on, one because you are tethered to the computer and 2 because it's dangerous.

My 116 hours in Onward disagree with "1st person VR games are a pretty terrible experience". Onward is great and contains no teleporting. In fact almost every VR player past VRginity prefers full locomotion instead of teleporting. These other methods of locomotion are there for people who really struggle with adaptation.

And re: turning, I use turning by thumbstick / turning my body interchangeably in Onward, on a case by case basis. This is also related to how I want to be oriented in my playspace (eg. facing a couch not a wall or god forbid my TV )

have to train yourself to get over it

I also read, that VR gives the nausea.
And there are Cmdrs who vomit.

I have no problem with it at all. Played Subnautica like yourself without issue. NMS too. I sometimes think a lot of the problems are with the players hardware being unable to run the game at an adequate framerate. You need to double the framerate basically and I bet lots of players rigs can't hack it.

And monitors give you epillepsy. Please, stop spreading FUD on something you don't personally know. Yes, VR sickness is real, but I never seen anyone vomit during my demos to friends and family. It's simply an adjustment period which differs from individual to individual. Choice of VR content consumed in your first VR steps is also important. One should use stationary experiences where camera doesn't move much. I wouldn't recommend Elite as a first experience. Maybe standing in a hangar and looking around. But anything with movement, especially camera yaw can induce huge nausea at the beginning.
Some people like my wife don't exhibit any signs of VR sickness at all. I needed ~6 weeks to fully accustom.

One last thing - you shouldn't "train yourself" as in "force through" nausea, because it is said it can have a counterproductive effect of your brain associating VR with nausea and you will get sick with the mere smell of a headset. Also something I read about, not experienced in person. You should make frequent pauses and stop immediately when you feel sick. And absolutely stay away from "rollercoaster experiences" and other things that are taking camera control out of the player during your first hours in VR. You'll get there.

Honestly all I really want is to be able to map a button on my HOTAS to request docking...could I get that by 2025?

You cannot because it's a design decision. Lead designer Sammarco said it will never be bindable because requesting docking is a process which adds to gameplay. Oh well, look left, panel opens, ui tab right, ui tab right, ui down, ui right, confirm (sth like that). Voice attk macro is cool for that too.

Solo only if you don't cough up the dough isn't it? Silly that.

While that's sad, there's a benefit - console users get unlimited number of accounts.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

Eh, missed @Dooguk quote there so I will just reiterate here:
Framerates do play an important part of VR experience, if there are frame drops or the framerate is low, at the beginning of VR you would feel strange, and it would contribute to all sorts of weird mild phenomena like headaches, nausea etc. However with the introduction of motion smoothing and reprojection techniques getting better and better I suppose things are more under control now. Can't say really as my VR legs are fully developed though