VR support 'not at launch' for Odyssey

[CMDR M Kozak]

I believe it has nothing to do with course correction. They simply don't know if they manage to add VR support or in which timeframe.
Their goal is to release Odyssey early 2021, with or without (limited) VR support. And I can completely understand that, 5 or 6 years after the last paid expansion.
They just don't want to create expectations they might not fulfill, which is as fair as it gets.
Or it's an evil marketing trick.

True. No more freebees. But split the expansion if you must... i would not be buying it for the Call of duty module anyway.

Atmos planets on the other hand... still spaceship bound and VR capable.

 

[DeeFeeBro]

I believe it has nothing to do with course correction. They simply don't know if they manage to add VR support or in which timeframe.
Their goal is to release Odyssey early 2021, with or without (limited) VR support. And I can completely understand that, 5 or 6 years after the last paid expansion.
They just don't want to create expectations they might not fulfill, which is as fair as it gets.
Or it's an evil marketing trick.

I mean course correct in as far as throwing us a bone. e.g. If we buy Odyssey they'll allow us access to a subset of new features at launch.

 

[Dooguk]

Sure. But what I'm saying is: FDev aren't just making a standard FPS shooter in a simple controlled environment. They're adding it to a complex environment with heavy demands on it already.





There's an immediate distinction between vehicles and character locomotion, in that vehicle frames have a lessening effect on nausea. (The lowered vection in your peripheral, the fixed point of reference etc, it all adds up to less nausea).



The question isn't so much: Is it hard to make a jetpack system? Sure, no it's not. What I'm saying is: Making a jetpack experience that works for both VR and flat players is trickier than average. (Especially if they have to integrate it with other environmental & gameplay aspects - such as gravity variety / 'jumping' challenges to enter locations, or what have you).


Sure but the point is: As a pro games company, they will want to at least try and balance those elements.

The game already has a mixture of VR and non-VR players. I don't get your point.

If VR players are going to get nausea they already know it. They will already have experienced every kind of locomotion in VR if they have played long enough.

 

[govny]

"But we can share more when we get close to the launch. "

Buy it first, then we'll let you know.

what a stupid post.
Your answer is not even coherent with the quoted test

 

[Dooguk]

what a stupid post.

See the laughing face... You think too much.

 

[Rat Catcher]

The game already has a mixture of VR and non-VR players. I don't get your point.

If VR players are going to get nausea they already know it. They will already have experienced every kind of locomotion in VR if they have played long enough.

Pretty much true...
Except for the folk who only play ED in VR and nothing else, they could have major issues - think about it - even the SRV has 'comfort mode' in fixing the horizon.

Folk like you and me who could happily run down a street in Serious Sam VR mowing down everything in sight, or who have played through Lone Echo (real space legs ) have already learned our VR Legs and just play...

 

[Alien]

Not taking VR into the future of the game is essentially a death sentence for the feature.

You just made a post telling me I don't know they aren't giving up on VR .... and then you assume they are not taking VR into the future of the game.

And you can't see what's wrong with that post .... can you?

 

[Dooguk]

Pretty much true...
Except for the folk who only play ED in VR and nothing else, they could have major issues - think about it - even the SRV has 'comfort mode' in fixing the horizon.

Folk like you and me who could happily run down a street in Serious Sam VR mowing down everything in sight, or who have played through Lone Echo (real space legs ) have already learned our VR Legs and just play...

Well I'm guessing that if someone has paid for a VR headset they will have at least tried lots of the free demos, rollercoasters, flying etc to know if they get motion sickness.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Well I'm guessing that if someone has paid for a VR headset they will have at least tried lots of the free demos, rollercoasters, flying etc to know if they get motion sickness.

Read some of the comments made by other posters... over the multitude of threads on both Odyssey and in the VR section you will find posts saying exactly that, even I couldn't make up something that silly, although I'd like credit for trying

 

[Dooguk]

Read some of the comments made by other posters... over the multitude of threads on both Odyssey and in the VR section you will find posts saying exactly that, even I couldn't make up something that silly, although I'd like credit for trying

They probably didn't realise they also had to fork out for a new graphics card to keep the framerate up. You need a goodish PC to play in VR without complications.

 

[amigacooke]

Alien was faster than me, see the post above. By the way, the question was 'will we be able to fly ships under blue sky in VR'.

Would that be more a question of which parts of Odyssey will update base game/Horizons? That's another whole can of worms.

 

[VR Golgot]

The game already has a mixture of VR and non-VR players. I don't get your point.

Sure. But currently we all use the same inputs (K/M / controller / HOTAS). FPS would likely introduce motion controllers, and suddenly you've got much more disparate systems. (As a brief example, the fact that VR players could blindfire around corners easily, whereas flat gamers would need to have that ability added via animations / keybinds etc, if they sought parity there).

They could easily just not bother too much about imbalance on the PvP front. But I suspect they'll want to at least take a token pass. And there's also overlap with other design best practice. (IE 'can a VR player shove his head through a wall' doesn't just have implications for 'wall hacking' )

If VR players are going to get nausea they already know it. They will already have experienced every kind of locomotion in VR if they have played long enough.

I guess I'm saying two main things on this aspect:

A) FDev are focusing this DLC on inviting a new influx of players in. If/when they add VR, they will want to make sure it has its noob-welcoming front foot forward. So that means best practice in terms of nausea reduction too.

B) There are slightly different nausea issues at play on foot. (In the ships we don't experience fast yaw turns or accelerations for example, that classic nausea trigger, but in foot gameplay it's a staple). Although there are lots of decent solutions to that now (controller-relative motion, HMD-relative etc), they'll probably still hit up against design conflicts when trying to design systems that work for both flat and VR. The jetpack aspect is one that occurs. (Long acceleration curves might feel cooler, and have gameplay utility for the designers getting the feel of the jetpack right, but are also a nausea trigger in VR etc. Any jetpack system will already have to work with the various gravities, so this type of aspect is just adding constraints on top of constraints).

None of it's insurmountable. They can just work their way through it. They could just have distinct systems for flat & VR. (Say a jump pack that uses long acceleration curves for flat, but short, sharp ones for VR). Presuming that still works for any other factors. (IE design wanting jet-packers to be able to reach certain rooves, or whatever)

---

What I'm saying is overall is: There are a lot of aspects to ED that make FPS VR non-trivial to add. If they want to do a half-decent job.

 

[The Lawful]

Pretty much true...
Except for the folk who only play ED in VR and nothing else, they could have major issues - think about it - even the SRV has 'comfort mode' in fixing the horizon.

Folk like you and me who could happily run down a street in Serious Sam VR mowing down everything in sight, or who have played through Lone Echo (real space legs ) have already learned our VR Legs and just play...

You can easily find out if you likely vomit or not:

1. Play the SRV for more than an hour on a rocky planet
2. Go to any active Thargoid site and go inside (TS required)
3. Visit a Guardian structure and fight the drones, including toppling over. It will always be dark and toppling over is real.
4. Enter the external cam inside the hangar and zip around, move horizontally and vertically
5. Do the same inside a starport and zip around one of your squad buddy's or any other ship. Chase the yellow cars or got scenery watching; mind all water is a computer animation.
6. Try the same in space where applicable. No floor below you, like scuba diving. This is where space starts feeling real, but rest assured, you won't fall off the ship.

As a bonus, you could do 6. at Sag A* and marvel at the black hole.

All this is working fine for me, on a 3 year old PC featuring a GTX1070 and the Rift CV1. I can play for hours like this, 12 and beyond. Ofc ASW kicks in at times. 4-6 are the easiest to master, planets are the hardest, Guardian sites are top level. I guess it would be easier with a decent rig, but I got none.

O7,

 

[Dooguk]

I would just map the controls to my HOTAS anyway.

Noobs already know how FPS games work. In VR it's just... well ...in VR. You get used to the controls and the motion.

The jet pack seems no different to some of the flying found in VR demos.

 

[VR Golgot]

I would just map the controls to my HOTAS anyway.

Sure but motion controllers would still be expected for a modern VR FPS

Noobs already know how FPS games work. In VR it's just... well ...in VR. You get used to the controls and the motion.

Sure, but I'm talking about the design issues, not the user end issues.

The jet pack seems no different to some of the flying found in VR demos.

It's just one potential issue. There are ton of these conflict points between VR design and flat design that would need to be ironed out. In total they suggest to me that it really wouldn't be plain sailing.

It's worth noting just how few 'crossplay' FPS games there are out there for VR+flat, let alone crossplay PvP ones. There's a reason for that. (Because otherwise it'd be a total no-brainer right? Fill out those empty VR servers with that massive flat-player market).

As it stands, on the PvP front, there's one. Rec Room.

 

[[VR] Orodruin]

FPS would likely introduce motion controllers, and suddenly you've got much more disparate systems.

To be honest, as a VR player, I would prefer the game to still be seated. Physically getting out of and into the chair in transitions would be a hassle that I would prefer to avoid. In addition, seated play typically helps with inverse motion sickness. My preferred implementation would be seated play with mouse contol over orientation and additional head look for aim.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Just pointed it out because it's possible to have that opinion without being a troll.

No it's not... You are wrong. (Troll!!!!)

Just teasing... VR isn't for everyone and even those who like VR won't like ALL VR . That is a given and is perfectly acceptable..... (You are still wrong tho )

Baiting players who currently are feeling about as dissapointed as if FD has announced ED was getting no more updates, it's been a hell of a ride thanks for all the fish (because right now that is certainly how I feel even more so after the live stream statement yesterday)

That is what is imo unnacceptable. I adore ED it's the most incredible gaming experience of my life despite actually being a pretty flawed game.imo... VR is for me what makes it

(.... Again you are still wrong tho )

I have been on the cusp of buying X Rebirth VR for ages. Next sale I will jump in I think and instill have NMS. Neither are elite tho.

 

[Dooguk]

Sure but motion controllers would still be expected for a modern VR FPS




Sure, but I'm talking about the design issues, not the user end issues.




It's just one potential issue. There are ton of these conflict points between VR design and flat design that would need to be ironed out. In total they suggest to me that it really wouldn't be plain sailing.

It's worth noting just how few 'crossplay' FPS games there are out there for VR+flat, let alone crossplay PvP ones. There's a reason for that. (Because otherwise it'd be a total no-brainer right? Fill out those empty VR servers with that massive flat-player market).

As it stands, on the PvP front, there's one. Rec Room.

Well if FD can't or won't do it, nothing I say will change their mind. But maybe if enough of us make ourselves heard they will listen. Who knows?

 

[Dooguk]

To be honest, as a VR player, I would prefer the game to still be seated. Physically getting out of and into the chair in transitions would be a hassle that I would prefer to avoid. In addition, seated play typically helps with inverse motion sickness. My preferred implementation would be seated play with mouse contol over orientation and additional head look for aim.

What if it just faded in and out like the transition to the SRV does now?

 

[VR Golgot]

To be honest, as a VR player, I would prefer the game to still be seated. Physically getting out of and into the chair in transitions would be a hassle that I would prefer to avoid. In addition, seated play typically helps with inverse motion sickness. My preferred implementation would be seated play with mouse contol over orientation and additional head look for aim.

Sure, I see that.

I'm just guessing that given that motion controllers are the industry norm for VR FPSes FDev will at minimum look into their use. (Even though they do introduce issues for ship transitions etc, for sure. Which NMS etc only solved via extensive additions).

Personally I'd be much happier if they invested in a system which allowed for motion controller use (it's super immersive for character gameplay, and fun for FPS etc), but given the current news, I'm not holding my breath