General / Off-Topic The safest place

[askavir]

On course, naturally ! You know the complicit relationships of our community.

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But at least the gauls are also quick to forgive and always end up friends in a feast. Which scientifically proves that active aggression is less bad than passive aggression.

 

[askavir]

it didn't "start" 400 years ago.

But dem reparations yo!

 

[Patrick_68000]

But at least the gauls are also quick to forgive and always end up friends in a feast. Which scientifically proves that active aggression is less bad than passive aggression.

Yes the frank relations are much better.

 

[Leper Messiah]

I get pulled out of line for the full frisk at every TSA checkpoint.

So what? I had one trip to the US (one of the most horrific of my life due to my condition), both there and back I was pulled out for a security check, "iz it becoz I is black?" (look up Ali G). If you havn't guessed I'm white, I did nothing wrong I just did as I was told and fully co-operated and after the check went on my way. I've had people cross the street from me when I was a full on Metal head....people don't like difference, your "experiences" are biased. Try moving to a non white country, live in the poorest area and compete with the majority race for jobs/food/housing and make notes how you're treated by your skin colour and I'd bet the wider the difference the worst you'd get treated.

You havn't had the full spectrum though, see what it's like in other countries before coming to false conclusions/assumptions......this isn't a simple thig about race, it's all about "difference".

what are these "crimes" then, just because you got away with it and you read black were arrested does NOT mean ALL whites get away with it and ALL blacks do not, that is stupid anecdotal stuff that has no scientific basis at all.

Everyone can provide "anecdotal" evidence of wrong doings, my Brother and Sister in law had horrific racial abuse, white girls had cigarettes put out on them. Both were threatened with violence and had to quit......both were white and were the minorty race in the workplace. In the UK. Does that justify hatred towards the other race?

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

Indeed. I have honestly no idea why it is so incredibly hard for some old white dudes to have any kind of introspection.

Statement: there is undeniable scientific evidence of systemic racism in our societies.
Responses:
1) I like watching police shows on TV, and they are really nice cops!
2) Bad things happen in Burma too!
3) I met an annoying person in bar!
4) What about my garbage life!

It is absolutely beyond me why it is so incredibly difficult for some to just say:"Yes, our society, like any other, isn't perfect. Lets work together to improve on these clear issues in our communities together in a constructive way."

Its like a neighbour knocking on your door:"Help, my house is on fire!"
1) I've seen lots of shows on tv without houses being on fire, I am sure your house is fine!
2) Houses burn in China too!
3) I was once annoyed by someone speaking about fire!
4) My house isn't on fire, but my toilet is clogged!

Really? Thats the best you all can do? :/

As always, these are simplified as hell because you want to try to discount any view stance that runs counter to your own. Lets have a look at them with a little more nuance, shall we?

1. Its often not a case of "I like police shows on TV, and they are really nice cops!", its more usually they're saying that whilst there are cases of brutality they're not as rife as is being projected and for the most part the police are following the rules laid down for them, in the face of funding, manpower issues and a hostile populace that is doing things like was occurring in '16, such as conducting fake call outs to lead them into ambushes.

2. Yes, bad things happen in Burma, however that's usually not what the other person is trying to get across (if its me). When someone has been repeatedly (for example) saying things that at their core are "The Orange Man is literally Hitler" whilst espousing how amazing and innocent China is (a country where there are concentration camps right now) its important to highlight the hypocrisy of this stance and try to get to the root of why they have it.

3. Again, you're oversimplifying things. Let me give you two examples: Firstly, you've got the 'struggle is real comrades' types, sitting in a bar loudly bemoaning how they're poor and its the fault of 'the system, state or a politician they dont like' whilst spending £40 on a round of five designer craft beer/lagers before going back to the home their parents paid for.

Secondly you have the square hole-round pegging of these issues into trivial things such as entertainment media because that's the closest people like this will ever get to the coal face and usually with an ulterior motive. For example, the show runners behind Game of Thrones were supposed to be making a TV series called Confederate, an alt-fiction work in which the South won the US Civil War, and slavery remained in place. Lots of people (including someone I drank with through a friend) who didn't like them for the end of Thrones started a cancel-culture campaign (which succeeded) because it was 'racist fantasy fulfilment' and that 'the wounds were too fresh' for some people. Meanwhile at the same time, in literally the same conversation, they were talking about how Man in the High Castle was amazing (an alt-fiction work set in a world where the Nazis/Imperial Japan win the Second World War). When pressed on this, they couldn't provide me with a reason that explained how they balanced this view.

4. Again, you're not taking a moment to look at the other persons 'life' in question and being instantly dismissive. I believe personally that poverty, hopelessness, addiction and despair and all their associated trappings are more rooted in class and income than systemic racism. This opinion is tempered by a very poor northern mining town childhood where at one point, many individuals I went to school with were relying on their school dinners as their primary source of nutrition. Naturally, people who lived in/still do regardless of their colour skin or creed are going to get extremely irate when the stereotypical comfortable-class SJW type is telling them that they 'don't understand the plight of x group that need defending today'.

 

[Leper Messiah]

The epitomy of irony and highlights why I will never suport the protesters or their stupidity for doing this during a global pandemic:

I'm sorry if I'm breaking forums rules but I feel this is an important message to get across, blanket hating the police on the subjet of BLM is cretinous.

 

[Leper Messiah]

Oh and regarding "privilege", Millenials in the western world are THE most privleged of ANY generation, most of the plebs protesting are clearly millenials. When I was growing up in the 70's 80's My home had NO phone, 1 Black and white TV, no central heating (Ice formed on my bedroom walls in winter).....but hey I'm white so was "privliged".

 

[Leper Messiah]

Conspiracy hat on........I've never known the Western world to be so divided......are we being set up? divide and conquer, was covid 19 released by mistake? It's certainly added to the "pressure". grabs some tin foil.

 

[Han_Zen]

It doesn't matter if you feel privileged, you are. For instance if you are white you are far less likely to be stopped & searched on the street. You don't see that as a privilege because you just expect to be able to walk down the street without been stopped - but if you are not white you are far more likely to be stopped. If you listen to recent media of black barristers, lawyers, professional sports people, military leaders all talking about these types of incident then they are hard to deny.

Not convinced by the 'playing into the hands of nationalists' argument - nationalists are quite able to create discrimination and division on their own (it's kinda what they do) without the help of others. People who want to misunderstand names like white privilege will misunderstand whatever replacement you come up with - they object to the idea as much as the name.

I agree with all of this. What I'm saying is that being 'white' isn't good enough to avoid racism. I bet the police in most of north west Europe can spot a Polish or Estonian, a mile away. Their cars are stopped and searched all the time. I never get stopped.

 

[lysan]

It is really, really depressing that not much can be done from the outside . I have friends in the US . I visited the country 2 times . Met a whole lot of really wonderfull people on different locations on the Planet who are US citizens . Now, I am witnessing from afar, through media, what well looks like it could explode into a fullblown civil war ( yeah, I am being dramatic...but the pictures are really looking like that from my perspective . ) .

And nothing I can do beyond hoping and wishing that people will be safe, free from harm, that all this will NOT accelerate the frickin' Pandemic ( futile, I know ), and generally, the Country coming back to Peace and Unity as quick as possible .

Hating this . Nothing I can do . Words and wishes...only massaging myself really, does not change anything for the peolpe involved .

Well civil war is very much a possibility, big cities will turn into one big meat grinder.

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

Well civil war is very much a possibility, big cities will turn into one big meat grinder.

If there was, it won't be a civil war like everyone seems to think it'll be, akin to the post cold war internal strife we saw in Eastern Europe.

If it does happen, it'll be more like early Troubles-era Northern Ireland. Protracted, long and bloody.

 

[Factabulous]

Sorry to be on topic, but I found this juxtaposition of headlines quite funny / tragic - the two extremes of response to the pandemic in sharp contrast

 

[lysan]

If there was, it won't be a civil war like everyone seems to think it'll be, akin to the post cold war internal strife we saw in Eastern Europe.

If it does happen, it'll be more like early Troubles-era Northern Ireland. Protracted, long and bloody.

I agree, it will be long and bloody, and an endless supply line of arms.
Warlords will emerge and rule in many places.

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

I agree, it will be long and bloody, and an endless supply line of arms.
Warlords will emerge and rule in many places.

I agree with your first paragraph. However, I doubt it'll be africa grade local warlord stuff. For all their egging on, the politicians fueling these issues on both sides will want the nation whole and refuse to cede power in such a manner. It's much better for them if small cells of ideologically opposed groups without any real power are knocking five bells of snot out of each other.

 

[lysan]

I agree with your first paragraph. However, I doubt it'll be africa grade local warlord stuff. For all their egging on, the politicians fueling these issues on both sides will want the nation whole and refuse to cede power in such a manner. It's much better for them if small cells of ideologically opposed groups without any real power are knocking five bells of snot out of each other.

As you know the US is a big country, if a civil war starts, society will collapse, and in some places the military/ law enforcement will just not be there as they will be busy where the population is consecrated.

Think Afghanistan, Libya, Lebanon, Balkan scenarios.

 

[Zieman]

America has a leader also working towards that aim

For China to be the 21st century superpower?

 

[Oldviboy]

Do you want me to find all the vids and reports of police in the USA saving people and doing good? We can play this stupid game forever, if you want to judge a whole group of people on the actions of a minority then so be it, but I've been taught ALL my life that people who do that are bigots and prejudiced.

And why are you going to show me videos of people doing their normal work? You say it as if being a good police officer is something exceptional, they take an oath to protect and serve, we pay them to do their job, not to earn merit. Call me what you want, it is true that I have never liked the attitude of many polices and authoritarian figures, but if you see some behavior of the police and the American judicial system normal, I think that the one with a problem is you.
Normalizing those behaviors or seeing them as "isolated cases" could demonstrate how unhealthy their society is. (Hundreds of American programs run through our TV that fill only with crimes and murders, that's a sick thing)
The fact that most are also racists is just one more addition. In Spain there is also racism and there are also bad policemen, but thanks to the fact that we can still use some instruments to combat that and if someone is killed, believe me there will be problems.

but in united states? Who says something to the world's greatest power? They do what they want, and the worst thing is that they try to set an example and sometimes Europe takes them as an example, but their system is rotten.

I still think angrily of the Kelly Thomas case, and since none of those people stepped into a jail, they were supported by lawyers, doctors, police chiefs, prosecutors ... how can you defend something like that? (In the video, if I'm not mistaken, you can almost see how they apply the taser even in their lower parts, 6 people looking and hitting, that brother, it is pure and harsh torture, and if you do not react to that, you are as sick as those people who did nothing)

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn-YYGQi2Eo




"if united states saw what united states is doing in the united states,
united states would invade united states to liberate united states from the tyranny of united states "

 

[Oldviboy]

Do you want me to find all the vids and reports of police in the USA saving people and doing good? We can play this stupid game forever, if you want to judge a whole group of people on the actions of a minority then so be it, but I've been taught ALL my life that people who do that are bigots and prejudiced.

by the way, in Spain we have also shown solidarity with Floyd and the cause

 

[lysan]

And why are you going to show me videos of people doing their normal work? You say it as if being a good police officer is something exceptional, they take an oath to protect and serve, we pay them to do their job, not to earn merit. Call me what you want, it is true that I have never liked the attitude of many polices and authoritarian figures, but if you see some behavior of the police and the American judicial system normal, I think that the one with a problem is you.
Normalizing those behaviors or seeing them as "isolated cases" could demonstrate how unhealthy their society is. (Hundreds of American programs run through our TV that fill only with crimes and murders, that's a sick thing)
The fact that most are also racists is just one more addition. In Spain there is also racism and there are also bad policemen, but thanks to the fact that we can still use some instruments to combat that and if someone is killed, believe me there will be problems.

but in united states? Who says something to the world's greatest power? They do what they want, and the worst thing is that they try to set an example and sometimes Europe takes them as an example, but their system is rotten.

I still think angrily of the Kelly Thomas case, and since none of those people stepped into a jail, they were supported by lawyers, doctors, police chiefs, prosecutors ... how can you defend something like that? (In the video, if I'm not mistaken, you can almost see how they apply the taser even in their lower parts, 6 people looking and hitting, that brother, it is pure and harsh torture, and if you do not react to that, you are as sick as those people who did nothing)

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn-YYGQi2Eo




"if united states saw what united states is doing in the united states,
united states would invade united states to liberate united states from the tyranny of united states "

If they actually manage to remove the police in some places (complete lunatic idea) society will very quickly be ruled by anarchists.

 

[Oldviboy]

If they actually manage to remove the police in some places (complete lunatic idea) society will very quickly be ruled by anarchists.

Is that the best you can think of?

How about simply educating them?

In fact,I pay so they are there and do their job well.