Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12
- Thread starter Yaffle
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For EvE, which was designed before 2003 (IIRC, that's the release date, design is probably pre-2000) it's the main performance bottleneck. They are not using cloud but just a huge cluster, which is a product of the technology level from 20 years ago. Their RDBMS used to be SQL Server, which is the slowest offering, doubt they changed it in the mean time. As a result, the game pace is very slow, actions take seconds, and massive instances require preparation from CCP so they can allocate stronger cluster nodes to it, and even so massive instances are a slowwww crawl and even counting the time warp trick they use to try and preserver their database from melting.
You cannot afford that in a real time MMO, and technology moved quite a lot during 20 years. That's why CiG are using fancy names for in-memory caches and object persistence. The cloud allow to use distributed in-memory caches that deliver sub-millisecond response times (plus the network lag to the client of course) with O(log
) scaling, using binary tree indexing. You can have excellent performance for writes too if needed, and the eventual consistency is golden for that use case (only resolves when players actually interact, which is comparatively infrequent).Are CiG using all of that ? Currently it's obviously a big no. From what i can see they use an SQL storage for the backend, as 30+ seconds response times (just to get a single player inventory !) were observed during fleet week. Again, transactions and rollbacks are a no-no in this environment, the game engine has to do without - there are proper ways to do it, but CiG are not known for "proper"...
I'll also point out that performance is a complete chain, and their network code is terribly inadequate, and is the first bottleneck we encounter. I highly suspect that their servers have a single thread dedicated to sorting client networking (then connected to the main game loop server-side), which doesnt matter in a low-player-count FPS, but definitely cannot do more than 50 players at once.
History was revised. OSC, specifically SSOSC was never meant to cure all problems. It was always meant to be server meshing that would solve all problems.
Something something eurasia.
Looks like CIG are prepping for another whale fracking
Nah...it's not that I guess because previous patch(3.8) was working far better it was much more stable I could play much longer and if I avoid all the known bugs I could end my session "normally" and wake up in the ship bed next time I logged in.....now game just snaps randomly and most of the time I can't even do one delivery....Hey @Mole HD is that common issue for this patch?
Why does anyone even believe what CIG says anymore? The boy who cried wolf only did it 3 times.
They've completely lost the plot. Someone should remind CR they're supposed to be making a game, otherwise just fess up on the scam.
Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
And before that the magic network tech was Network Bind Culling, and even before that it was Serialized Variables. Then came in OCS, then SSOCS and now Server Meshing. And there is basically no need to stop the series. As long funding keeps coming in all CIG needs to do is keep inventing whatever term they think backers may fall for at the time they need.
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They lost the plot years ago, but are getting record funding. This is good for Chris Roberts and co. Why should they care if its not so good for Star Citizen.
As long as backers keep throwing money at CIG and excusing every lie they have ever told, there is no reason for CIG to stop doing sales.
If it goes on long enough, hell, they might even be able to make a releasable product that doesn't totally suck.
Dont forget iCache and CR's magical physics refactor (which is according to one person at CIG is already in!).
You know, I take it back. I don't hate CIG, I hate society for letting this happen.
There is no reason to hate CIG unless you feel they have wronged you in some way. And even then, do you hate sometime who for example borrowed 50 dollars off you and never returned it? Sure, be annoyed, never trust them again, but hates a strong emotion.
Do you hate CIG for constantly lying to you as a backer over many years, yeah, i could understand that. You give someone your trust, and repeatedly trust them despite things going wrong, you give them the benefit of the doubt, despite people telling you they are lying to you... but then, in that situation, the blame is as much yours for trusting them despite being told.
The only thing to do here is have a laugh at CIG's antics and wait and see if CIG can actually produce something decent in the end or whether they will go belly up first.
Who are you, and what have you done with our Agony_Aunt?
Given infinite time and infinite money, anything is possible
Given infinite time and infinite money, anything is possible
That depends a bit on the monkeys and the durability of their keyboards...
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For EvE, which was designed before 2003 (IIRC, that's the release date, design is probably pre-2000) it's the main performance bottleneck. They are not using cloud but just a huge cluster, which is a product of the technology level from 20 years ago. Their RDBMS used to be SQL Server, which is the slowest offering, doubt they changed it in the mean time. As a result, the game pace is very slow, actions take seconds, and massive instances require preparation from CCP so they can allocate stronger cluster nodes to it, and even so massive instances are a slowwww crawl and even counting the time warp trick they use to try and preserver their database from melting.
You cannot afford that in a real time MMO, and technology moved quite a lot during 20 years. That's why CiG are using fancy names for in-memory caches and object persistence. The cloud allow to use distributed in-memory caches that deliver sub-millisecond response times (plus the network lag to the client of course) with O(log
Are CiG using all of that ? Currently it's obviously a big no. From what i can see they use an SQL storage for the backend, as 30+ seconds response times (just to get a single player inventory !) were observed during fleet week. Again, transactions and rollbacks are a no-no in this environment, the game engine has to do without - there are proper ways to do it, but CiG are not known for "proper"...
I'll also point out that performance is a complete chain, and their network code is terribly inadequate, and is the first bottleneck we encounter. I highly suspect that their servers have a single thread dedicated to sorting client networking (then connected to the main game loop server-side), which doesnt matter in a low-player-count FPS, but definitely cannot do more than 50 players at once.
I sometimes wish CCP would make a new, modern, up-to-date EVE with current technology and NOT mess it up with any of the things currently going wrong with gaming. I know...wishful thinking. Here is a company that proved its capability, competence and integtrity in providing a good, solid game. Imagine if CCP would ve picked up Star Citizen? Well you could pick any "real" game company instead of CIG and we would probably play the original version of Star Citizen for real by now.
I mean I m really impressed how some companies pick individual aspects of SCs game and make it into something awesome. I understand Shipbreaker isnt for everybody but it is Star Citizens salvage mechanics. Great graphics, FPS, immersive and detailed. Kinda sad that Starbreaker even tho it only adresses a singular gaming aspect is more of a game then SC is. Now how many people backing SC have dreamed based on all the hype fluff from CIG that salvaging in SC would be something like Starbreaker? And a different game picked up the idea and made it before CIG could.
Pretty much every single thing in Star Citizen is made or being made better by other games. Flying, racing, FPS, sightseeing you name it. Hell I bet if a company would simply want to make a walking simulator where you can see great vistas and go anywhere you want, all seamless I m pretty sure they d come up with something that d blow SC out of the water. It wouldnt be a real game of course....just like SC isnt and probably never will be because what I realled understood watching SC and CIG for this last year its that its not going anywhere. The "potential" for any real progress is dried up and Chris has ripped the original project into so many different directions without regard for whats possible or sensible, all in the name of the allmighty dollar....it really is a gigantic grave in the making. Sure....CIG could prepare beta and release as we discuss but its going to be the Star Citizen we know right now so imagine how well received such a product would be by the overall gaming community.
Back to other companies and doing smaller versions instead of trying for the "perfect" result first try. By going step by step these companies test out stuff and refine ideas to come up with improvements. Sure theres still no game out there which adds everything together but by now its pretty appearant that SC wont be able to do anything like it promised. Technology advancements allow SCs graphics as something like a side performance and engine as well as design foundations allow for powerful application integrations which would make the project cheaper, faster and (probably) better. Would I seriously consider Star Citizens development at this point I d suggest scrapping everything and starting from zero. With a real engine capable to match the requirements, with a real design document that nails down everything SC is going to be from day 1 and with a management structure that would give the project a chance so Chris Roberts wouldnt be in it. Of course this would disregard the cost, the additional years required and the ridicule from the industry but thats the only way I can realistically see how to make Star Citizen a reality anymore.
Hardspace Shipbreaker is a good illustration. SC lives of dreams of possible gameplay loops. The mistake is to assume they could all happen in an unified game. It's better to break it into parts and finish games with a vision and plan what you can do and achieve during development than have the cancer of ambition fester away at the project.
Is Shipbreaker a limited game experience? Yes, but it is promoting a fun core gameplay loop and pushing an early access with a viable game version that can "easily" be expanded on. In a limited scope - HS Shipbreaker wouldn't need piracy to be a complete experience. Yet, a savy designer might still incorporate it. Or story arcs.
Why not, with such a budget SC had, with such a team (maybe more centered towards network engineering, and much less mo-cap and hollywood A-list stars...), and a semi-competent management it would certainly be possible, at least if we keep at the initial KS promise of a multiplayer universe. What has killed this project outright is the rotten management, the blatant nepotism, and that Crytek connection. With a dedicated engine, which would have meant maybe 2 to 3 years of blackout at the start, this project would be a reality by today.
For real, where did you saw the project is dead ? Have you some secret infos to give us ?
It progress slowly, but it gets more and more alive patch after patch. Player base growing, funding growing, gameplay growing, techs growing... like it or not, it's the opposite of death.
True. It's more like brain death, with backers money as IMV.
How about we not gatekeep who can post on FD's forum or for what reason? Isn't that the job of the moderators based on FD's rules?