Humans are the Guardian Constructs: Theory

[Jeron]

Lets discuss, we know that:

• The Guardians were Humanoid.
• The Guardians excelled in genetic engineering.
• It is never clearly stated their constructs were not biological in nature or developed over time.
• The constructs were sentient.
• They were social, the military constructs agreed with the civilian constructs about the revolt.
• The constructs destroyed the Guardians about 1-2 million years ago.
• Homo-sapiens are potentially only 1-2 million years old.
• Thargoids are sensitive to Guardian technology and are automatically hostile if they detect it since the ancient war.
• Thargoids are known to be instantly hostile to humans.
• From canon guardian entry library: "It is hypothesized that the Constructs still exist somewhere in the vastness of space. 1 to 2 million years later they could have changed beyond recognition"

The above information has been deduced from the Guardian wiki elite fandom page.

Sort of has a battlestar feel to it a little I know. I'd love to here some reason for and against this theory.

Cmdr Jeron

 

[CMDR Deano The Imperial]

Lets discuss, we know that:

• The Guardians were Humanoid.
• The Guardians excelled in genetic engineering.
• It is never clearly stated their constructs were not biological in nature or developed over time.
• The constructs were sentient.
• They were social, the military constructs agreed with the civilian constructs about the revolt.
• The constructs destroyed the Guardians about 1-2 million years ago.
• Homo-sapiens are potentially only 1-2 million years old.
• Thargoids are sensitive to Guardian technology and are automatically hostile if they detect it since the ancient war.
• Thargoids are known to be instantly hostile to humans.
• From canon guardian entry library: "It is hypothesized that the Constructs still exist somewhere in the vastness of space. 1 to 2 million years later they could have changed beyond recognition"

The above information has been deduced from the Guardian wiki elite fandom page.

Sort of has a battlestar feel to it a little I know. I'd love to here some reason for and against this theory.

Cmdr Jeron

You maybe onto something there.

What I want to know is that 2 civilisations separated by 2 million years and no knowledge of each other, name the Thargoids "Thargoids". The Guardians named them Thargoids then we (the Humans) name them the exact same thing 2 million years later.

Then we Humans discover the Guardians and also discover (through guardian writings or whatever?) that they named them the Thargoids exactly the same as us.

Imagine that, what an astronomical coincidence.

 

[Thatchinho]

First, never go off the wiki.

Second there’s the entire RL set of evidence of human evolution on Earth.

 

[Thatchinho]

You maybe onto something there.

What I want to know is that 2 civilisations separated by 2 million years and no knowledge of each other, name the Thargoids "Thargoids". The Guardians named them Thargoids then we (the Humans) name them the exact same thing 2 million years later.

Then we Humans discover the Guardians and also discover (through guardian writings or whatever?) that they named them the Thargoids exactly the same as us.

Imagine that, what an astronomical coincidence.

They didn’t. It’s Ram Tah’s phrasing.

 

[CMDR Deano The Imperial]

They didn’t. It’s Ram Tah’s phrasing.

Is it? I was under the prosumtion that Ram Tah only translated, not made it up.

 

[Jeron]

First, never go off the wiki.

Second there’s the entire RL set of evidence of human evolution on Earth.

This is true, and we don't really want to go down the route of DNA manipulation and ancient astronaut theory! (chuckles)

 

[Thatchinho]

Is it? I was under the prosumtion that Ram Tah only translated, not made it up.

Well... depends how much you trust Ram Tah. Not everything he says in relation to modern day (3300s) stuff is completely accurate.

Doesn’t really matter for the use of the word ‘Thargoids’ though. Point there is when talking about species X’s encounters with species Y, he uses our word for species Y because he’s talking to us. He doesn’t use species X’s words anywhere else, so why would he use their word for species Y instead of our word for species Y?

He’s not using species X’s word* for species X either.

*Word being a potential misnomer here, given the potential for expression via chemicals, EM radiation, clicks of chelicerae, chirrups, etc.

 

[CMDR Deano The Imperial]

Well... depends how much you trust Ram Tah. Not everything he says in relation to modern day (3300s) stuff if completely accurate.

Doesn’t really matter for the use of the word ‘Thargoids’ though. Point there is when talking about species X’s encounters with species Y, he uses our word for species Y because he’s talking to us. He doesn’t use species X’s words anywhere else, so why would he use their word for species Y instead of our word for species Y?

He’s not using species X’s word* for species X either.

*Word being a potential misnomer here, given the potential for expression via chemicals, EM radiation, clicks of chelicerae, chirrups, etc.

But then Ram Tah would be making it up as he went along wouldn't he?
Then we shouldn't take anything that Ram Tah says as any kind of truth.
Highly unlikely but what if the Guardians wasn't on about the Thargoids but another Alien race altogether? Then Ram Tah would be completely wrong in his translations through his presumptions on the Thargoids.

You're probably right, but I don't see it.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Although I want to believe, I've given up on coherent lore. But:

Do notice that all UI transitions are very similar to Guardian obelisks (triangle motif), and that a lot of the faction leaders clothes have similar triangular motifs, especially the Feds, or on certain garments (like hats).

 

[Thatchinho]

This is true, and we don't really want to go down the route of DNA manipulation and ancient astronaut theory! (chuckles)

Ha ha ha! In fairness, I guess it’s not completely off the cards in some form or other!

There’s the Mars Relic, so there’s definitely been an alien presence in Sol at some point.

Plus there’s also what happened to Halsey and Gan Romero.

So there’s definitely hints there that there is some external influence. Seems a more subtle form than direct insertion onto a planet is all.

A couple of things to take into account with the Guardians is that:

- there’s also the Guardians who were exiled following their first civil war whose fate is unknown.

- the (civilian at least) AI were designed to be responsible for furthering their own development.

- the civilian AI were virtual originally

- the network they were based in extended originally to the minds of some Guardians via brain implants which gave a shared thought space, lead to a near singularity and a sudden rapid development for those involved, and it was the backlash from the rest of Guardian society (who were largely against electronic/mechanical modification of bodies) that caused the first civil war, and lead to the brain implanted Guardians being exiled.

 

[Thatchinho]

Although I want to believe, I've given up on coherent lore. But:

Do notice that all UI transitions are very similar to Guardian obelisks (triangle motif), and that a lot of the faction leaders clothes have similar triangular motifs, especially the Feds, or on certain garments (like hats).

Indeed. It’s even in the newsletter.

 

[Thatchinho]

But then Ram Tah would be making it up as he went along wouldn't he?
Then we shouldn't take anything that Ram Tah says as any kind of truth.
Highly unlikely but what if the Guardians wasn't on about the Thargoids but another Alien race altogether? Then Ram Tah would be completely wrong in his translations through his presumptions on the Thargoids.

You're probably right, but I don't see it.

Well I think we should apply a cautionary filter to what Ram Tah says. Same as should be done for any news source really.

There’s disagreement with Ram Tah within ED:

Galnet News | Elite Dangerous Community Site

community.elitedangerous.com

For the Thargoids, however I think it’s reasonable to assume that the Guardian records would have had descriptions and images/videos of the ships and/or beings encountered by the Guardians, and that Ram Tah identified them as Thargoids via that means.

Interestingly though, it’s very possible there was a bit of a mistake.

To see what I mean, consider if it was an alien looking at another species’ records of encounters with humanity. If the species in question had encountered the Empire, would the alien who was looking at the records see that it was the Empire that had been encountered, or would they just see it as being Humans that had been encountered?

Edit - Just to add on the Thargoid / Guardian stuff. Before that Ram Tah info was added (in 3.0), we’d already found:

- evidence to suggest that there had been a Thargoid/Guardian territorial crossover of some form at some point. And then,

- violent reactions to Guardian artefacts from Thargoid sites and ships.

So the info on the Guardian / Thargoid conflict from Ram Tah was more supplemental / explanatory rather than being completely new info. (Though having said that, the info from Ram Tah acting to confirm existing suspicions might well have lent a bit of confirmation bias to the way it was viewed. Depends just how tinfoilly we want to get! )

 

[Sensei Jacksama]

Lets discuss, we know that:

• The Guardians were Humanoid.
• The Guardians excelled in genetic engineering.
• It is never clearly stated their constructs were not biological in nature or developed over time.
• The constructs were sentient.
• They were social, the military constructs agreed with the civilian constructs about the revolt.
• The constructs destroyed the Guardians about 1-2 million years ago.
• Homo-sapiens are potentially only 1-2 million years old.
• Thargoids are sensitive to Guardian technology and are automatically hostile if they detect it since the ancient war.
• Thargoids are known to be instantly hostile to humans.
• From canon guardian entry library: "It is hypothesized that the Constructs still exist somewhere in the vastness of space. 1 to 2 million years later they could have changed beyond recognition"

The above information has been deduced from the Guardian wiki elite fandom page.

Sort of has a battlestar feel to it a little I know. I'd love to here some reason for and against this theory.

Cmdr Jeron

The guardian ruins do talk about how they were able to gentetically manipulate other species and even used some of them for war.

 

[Sensei Jacksama]

You maybe onto something there.

What I want to know is that 2 civilisations separated by 2 million years and no knowledge of each other, name the Thargoids "Thargoids". The Guardians named them Thargoids then we (the Humans) name them the exact same thing 2 million years later.

Then we Humans discover the Guardians and also discover (through guardian writings or whatever?) that they named them the Thargoids exactly the same as us.

Imagine that, what an astronomical coincidence.

No not necessarily. If you ever try to learn other languages you find some things you have to take liberties with when there isnt an equivalent word. For example the Japanese word for Japan is Nihongo. When translated into English you cant always use the native word when it comes to proper nouns. We also know the guardians use glyphs in their "alphabet" so there is likely not an actual word ram tah could translate. So either there isnt a word to translate or the word itself is being translated like Nihongo.

That being said I do think humans were a genetic experiment of the guardians or the thargoids were.

 

[Zieman]

humans were a genetic experiment of the guardians or the thargoids were

 

[Thatchinho]

Why, to both?

Thargoids being a Guardian experiment requires everything that Ram Tah says about the Guardian-Thargoid conflict to be a complete fabrication. Not entirely impossible of course. Just trying to think if there’s any statements from DB or anyone on the Thargoids that would clarify.

Humanity? Well it’s more possible but is there anything to actually suggest it happened? (Having said that, I’d not rule it out. MB’s into all kinds of stuff, and I did hear a rumour a while back that someone at FD was very into their ‘fringe’ stuff. )

 

[simulacrae]

Although I want to believe, I've given up on coherent lore. But:

Do notice that all UI transitions are very similar to Guardian obelisks (triangle motif), and that a lot of the faction leaders clothes have similar triangular motifs, especially the Feds, or on certain garments (like hats).

There is a definite design choice with the triangle motif and a few other geometric shapes that carry across all aspects of the game... it could very well be just that. Or it might be deliberatly tying into a certain theme. I like to imagine thats case ... that well atleast initially there was a cohesive plan Not sure about it now though...

PS: humanity as guardian/ thargoid love child ?

 

[Rubbernuke]

There is a definite design choice with the triangle motif and a few other geometric shapes that carry across all aspects of the game... it could very well be just that. Or it might be deliberatly tying into a certain theme. I like to imagine thats case ... that well atleast initially there was a cohesive plan Not sure about it now though...

PS: humanity as guardian/ thargoid love child ?

My guess? Founders world hosts AI (us pilots) who have Holo me avatars that are influenced or controlled by Guardian AI. Then telepresence, no corporeal body, forgiveness for crime all become explained.

 

[simulacrae]

My guess? Founders world hosts AI (us pilots) who have Holo me avatars that are influenced or controlled by Guardian AI. Then telepresence, no corporeal body, forgiveness for crime all become explained.

Hmmmmm that would explain alot of things.... the hollow squares and triangles.. why its easy to teleport to someone elses ship but so tough to walk around, how we never seem to die but will lose data that hasnt been saved... we are the AI... or atleast the pilots federation is. Nice !

 

[Hanerib]

I personally believe Thargoids and/or Guardians at some point landed in southern Spain.