Scanning/ detection: make it useful (plus suggestions on criminal records, scan mechanics)

[Some Saturday coffee talk]

A ships best weapon and defence should be its scanners- so why are they often "just D rate it and forget"? They should be your eyes and ears into supercruise, just as the full spectrum scanner is to explorer types as well as being a window into real space travel.

So:

A scan of a ship should be valuable information- why not show the players recent criminal history (i.e. how many counts of player / Pilot Fed murder, NPC murder, and assaults)? Its like the rap sheets of old Elite games. From this you can judge if this person is safe / treat with caution.

This should also be expressed as an inline string around the target in the HUD in a simple ratio like PF:10 M:10 A:50 so that without having to dip into the target panel you can see the behaviour of this person. This could reset each day maybe, or perhaps be in categories (so a player killer would be a 'high' threat over time but would fade if they stopped killing).

This information is important, because it can tell apart play-styles. Pirates don't really want to blow up targets, so they will have a high number of assaults but low player / NPC kill count. A player killer will have an almost uniform kill / assault ratio (since each kill will be an assault then murder charge).

It would be a fun tool in Powerplay to see merits held by the opposition, and make them a priority target.

Link a scan to this idea: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...-npc-player-scan-spawns-an-atr-vessel.533172/ that way, a scan in real space is useful.

(Not my idea but fits here): make it so that if you scan a criminal you can cash that sighting for a payout and marks that player in that system (until they leave it via HW). If that criminal is in SC, security (if any) focus on interdicting them (regardless of faction rep) for a security scan and further action (such as the ATR at notoriety 10 idea).

What this would do: it would make a traders scanner like a herd immunity to attack; traders and miners could then be proxy spotters as they go about play and protect each other in an active and passive way generating gameplay and lose teamplay.

In multicrew a gunner could become a spotter allowing 360 scanning, identification and tagging of targets. For mining this might be useful as you are stationary, and able to act as a spotter for SLFs for example, or know when to pack up and run.

Make scanner engineering more than lightweight- wide angle and long range then becoming useful, almost vital.

It would make avoiding scans also important, because one scan from a player can set off a chain of investigation, and action separately to the trader. It would also allow you to plan ahead of time and know who wants to kill you, or rob you.

Bring in silent running to break scans or stall them. Piratical grandmas footsteps?

Once a murderer or person of high enough rating is in that system, have an on screen security announcement like "Attention traders! Known felon CMDR X has been sighted! Do not approach and act with caution!" to being it all in universe emershun.

For attackers, have a line of sight jammer laser that if painting a target blinds them (but eats up WEP energy to use) in real space.

Create a new class of armour- stealth. Makes you much harder to target (and reduces SC visibility by half visually and in the RADAR via range) at the expense of protection (it grants very little).
 
Like... The "Karma system" some designers were talking about many years ago?

Yeah I'm sure it'll happen, just after those powerplay changes.
 
And 4 pips to Systems should increase your Scanner range, just like 4 pips to Engines increases speed.
 
If even as many as 50% of interactions in ED were player to player, this would still miss the mark as a sensors overhaul. (Instead I would be surprised if player to player interactions break a hundredth of a percent, even only considering Open).

To really feel like they matter, sensors need to be changed in a way that makes upgrading them useful in all interactions with other ships, player and NPC.

So what sensors really need is more functions that always work. I would suggest the following:


1. Remove the ability to directly identify ships in supercruise. Instead of seeing what a ship in supercruise is, you see an approximate tonnage. The higher rating your sensors, the more accurate the estimate.

2. Integrate features from utility mounts that are mostly too annoying to bother fitting. Sensors should inherently gain the functions of Kill Warrant Scanners and Manifest Scanners when in normal space. These should operate at a base 50% of the effective range of the sensor as a whole. They can still take extra time to resove over a basic identifcation, but shouldn't require manual activation. Higher grade sensors should provide more comprehensive information (eg. D/E sensor will show the cargo of a ship, B/C will show the percentage of each cargo, and A will show the actual tonnage, and higher grade sensors will have higher value thresholds for discovering remote bounties)

Engineering can then be changed so that as well as Lightweight they can be optimised to do the other jobs faster/better. So you can have Lightweight/Warrant Optimised/Manifest Optimised as engineering options.

3. Fix the weight inefficiency of sensors. Because sensors only meaningfully improve on one axis, they get less than other modules from being A rated. They can't do the trick the other D rate and forget module gets, Life Support, and just get 233% improvement on that axis for 150% extra weight because that would just overwhelm the whole detection/stealth process. So sensors should mass like Power Plants, where the top rated module is 25% heavier for 33% increased primary performance than the D rate (instead of 150% heavier for 33% primary performance).
 
If even as many as 50% of interactions in ED were player to player, this would still miss the mark as a sensors overhaul. (Instead I would be surprised if player to player interactions break a hundredth of a percent, even only considering Open).

To really feel like they matter, sensors need to be changed in a way that makes upgrading them useful in all interactions with other ships, player and NPC.

So what sensors really need is more functions that always work. I would suggest the following:


1. Remove the ability to directly identify ships in supercruise. Instead of seeing what a ship in supercruise is, you see an approximate tonnage. The higher rating your sensors, the more accurate the estimate.

2. Integrate features from utility mounts that are mostly too annoying to bother fitting. Sensors should inherently gain the functions of Kill Warrant Scanners and Manifest Scanners when in normal space. These should operate at a base 50% of the effective range of the sensor as a whole. They can still take extra time to resove over a basic identifcation, but shouldn't require manual activation. Higher grade sensors should provide more comprehensive information (eg. D/E sensor will show the cargo of a ship, B/C will show the percentage of each cargo, and A will show the actual tonnage, and higher grade sensors will have higher value thresholds for discovering remote bounties)

Engineering can then be changed so that as well as Lightweight they can be optimised to do the other jobs faster/better. So you can have Lightweight/Warrant Optimised/Manifest Optimised as engineering options.

3. Fix the weight inefficiency of sensors. Because sensors only meaningfully improve on one axis, they get less than other modules from being A rated. They can't do the trick the other D rate and forget module gets, Life Support, and just get 233% improvement on that axis for 150% extra weight because that would just overwhelm the whole detection/stealth process. So sensors should mass like Power Plants, where the top rated module is 25% heavier for 33% increased primary performance than the D rate (instead of 150% heavier for 33% primary performance).

The scope of my suggested changes are small here, because as you point out with your ideas you can go to town with them. My ideas are really to plug a few gaps rather than overhaul everything.
 
The scope of my suggested changes are small here, because as you point out with your ideas you can go to town with them. My ideas are really to plug a few gaps rather than overhaul everything.

Yeah, but they seem more like core UI suggestions rather than something that can scale with sensor modules on a ship.
 
Yeah, but they seem more like core UI suggestions rather than something that can scale with sensor modules on a ship.

Its making the scan itself more consequential- hence the title: 'make it useful', and avoiding scans much more important too- especially for players with murder raps.
 
Its making the scan itself more consequential- hence the title: 'make it useful', and avoiding scans much more important too- especially for players with murder raps.

And that's not a bad idea, but it doesn't really address the "D rate is the only sensors" problem because the performance gap between sensor grades is so narrow and there's not really much scope to widen it just on the one axis they have of range whilst also keeping detection as a whole consequential.
 
And that's not a bad idea, but it doesn't really address the "D rate is the only sensors" problem because the performance gap between sensor grades is so narrow and there's not really much scope to widen it just on the one axis they have of range whilst also keeping detection as a whole consequential.

This is very true, in reality the whole thing needs much greater depth- and its been brought up many times before- myself included:





It could be done by merging the FSS and traditional sensors, all sorts. Problem is unless FD change it all in one go they stick to minor changes and is how I frame a lot of my suggestions.
 
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