Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Chevy66

C
There was a mission in Mafia where you had to carry boxes to a truck, it was annoying enough doing it once. This is supposed to be futuristic, haven't they got conveyers, fork lifts and cranes?
 

VR Golgot

VR Golgot
There was a fun thread on reddit about the old automated repair system:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/hpv85c
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/hpv85c/i_was_going_through_old_citcon_videos_and_came/

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/hpv85c/_/fxu9ft0
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/hpv85c/i_was_going_through_old_citcon_videos_and_came/fxu9ft0/




https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/hpv85c/_/fxu7p8q
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/hpv85c/i_was_going_through_old_citcon_videos_and_came/fxu7p8q/
 
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LittleAnt

L
Chevy66 said:
There was a mission in Mafia where you had to carry boxes to a truck, it was annoying enough doing it once. This is supposed to be futuristic, haven't they got conveyers, fork lifts and cranes?
Click to expand...
They will be. A Hull E cannot be loaded by hand, it had more than 500 containers. Even if they change its structure, containers will be counted by hundred so manually charging will not be an option.
Hull_E_Blueprint.jpg


We don't know how CIG will handle the loading. It will depend of what they can achieve in their prototype. The simplest solution would be to hide the loading in a closed dock but it can't be with the actual infos we have. Hull cannot land or lift off when full so they must be loaded in space. And they are too big to enter the actual space stations. So the loading will be visible. A simple one can be big drones getting containers in dock and attaching them to the Hull in space. The Hull need also to be docked to the station and the docking engine is not here yet. Another problem CIG had tell us is that the grid engine has to be adapted to handle the Hull folding mechanism. It doesn't work well in their prototype atm. So we will not see them in game for a long time (as usually with CIG).

sovapid said:
do something else like play another game that doesn't punish the player?
Click to expand...
Waiting time are absolutely not bad in gameplay mechanics if well done, they are even a big element of a good reward mechanism. Only waiting time with nothing else to do is bad.
The big problem of "wasted" times in gameplay loops is that the AAA industry had rip all games of them, players are no longer accustomed to them. Not because they are bad but because the average customer doesn't have time to play. The gaming session must fit the shorter time possible, so no wait time, magical teleport to destination, shops at the spawn point... Everything that prevents the customer to have fun in 1 minute must disappear because the game will loose every customer that only have 15 minute gameplay session.
CIG had stated they will not adapt the game to those players, the waiting mechanisms will be in game. And they don't have an investor who will force them to cut back on the waiting's mechanics.

Side note : if you absolutely want to spend 100% of your time trading In SC you can do some manual trade with your small ship while waiting for your big ship loading.
 
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Factabulous

Factabulous
Agony_Aunt said:
What ship transfer timers? (owner of a fleet carrier :D)
Click to expand...
Hmm, wouldn't crow too much - I often spend hours loading up my FC with cargo, so it could be argued that ED already has manual loading gameplay loops (without even the NPCs to help - though people have asked for it).
 

Cotic

Cotic
LittleAnt said:
Waiting time are absolutely not bad in gameplay mechanics if well done, they are even a big element of a good reward mechanism.
Click to expand...

After all these years does anyone honestly think that CIG will make their waiting games fun or rewarding? I don't think they would even know where to start because all evidence points to them implementing things in the most boring, tedious manner possible.

Look at quantum drive, ship respawning delays, character to ship delays etc.

It's ironic that the biggest waiting game is one so many are choosing to skip and the very thing that funds Star Citizen, the buying of ships....
 

Sanya V. Juutilainen

Sanya V. Juutilainen
sovapid said:
I don't really care if the planets orbit or not. Rotating gives day/night cycles which is interesting. Orbiting does not add to the game play. In fact, with how SC does interdiction, it is going to break game play.
Click to expand...

Orbiting does add to the gameplay and I don't really understand how one can miss that. You have varying distances between planets for space gameplay. For synchronous orbiting stations - which in Elite are majority, I believe - it changes the angle of approach coming from the central star. It creates seasons for surface play. And without proper orbiting you wouldn't get lunar and solar eclipses.
 

Navigare Necesse Est

Navigare Necesse Est
sovapid said:
You'll learn (hopefully) that if your "space sim" has ships that are able to yaw, it is no longer a sim and an arcade turrets in space game.

Unfortunately, space ships in SC are able to yaw.
Click to expand...

Ok, serious question:

Ships are usually longer than wide. So the yaw thrusters have more of a leverage. Shouldn't that be the preferred axis to steer? Just like pitch axis. Both should see almost identical performance.
Roll thrusters are not as far out on narrower-than-long ship shapes and need to work more to achieve the same results in terms of axis rotation.

Or am I wrong here?
 

MTBFritz

MTBFritz
well the thing with Star Citizen is that some things are already in....even for years...but only in their tier zero basic implementation and many have hardly changed since their implementation. When you consider how high quality most of the features have been advertised the tier zero implementation would mark the starting point of a rapidly advancing development cycle especially as SC is in alpha still where most of the fundamental changes are happening. So whatever comes in would probably change considerably in a short amount of time until it resembles the end result, still unfinished but close to being "done".

Instead.....stuff gets dropped and left alone. CIG fixes the worst glitch and bug offenders if capable then focus shifts to something different. I cant say if this is smart development procedure as you would have teams constantly getting "warm" in various changing topics and if you leave something to come back in a few weeks or months you basically need to reaquaint yourself with the material and its details....its pretty much a waste of (expensive) development time and manpower.

And claiming that with its 500+ people workforce CIG has teams constantly working on everything is pretty much an empty claim because what backers with access can witness is various areas being abandoned or on the backburner and unchanging. Another thing about the development team is that they seem to be happily developing along until they run into a problem or "blocker" which nobody saw coming and nobody knows how to overcome. Its like there hasnt been anybody with the expertise sitting down at the very beginning to draw out development and procedures identifying many of the current pitfalls SC faces. Maybe doing specific stress tests to check the capacity of the physics grid would ve been a better approach then simply working on high-requirement assets until you run into the limits....then scratch your head and being unable to proceed. Once they reach that point they sit down and try to identify the problem and I m sure such things happen in other projects as well but you really want as little disruption as possible due to costs which is why you spend a lot of time and effort into the design to ensure you run into problems as an exception.

With CIG this blind approach seems to be the norm. Probably because there is no coherent design paper. Just the ramblings of the CEO losing himself in dreams and visions disregarding technical realities and capacities.

I can endure people gushing over theoretical scenarios and waiting for feature X to finally arrive so everything else can proceed but due to the timeframes (and cost) involved where in 6 months hardly anything big happens which would be noticable I think its fair to question CIGs competence or intention in this matter. If they are working hard then all of that effort and time going through the millions of trusted money result in remarkably little progress or direction. Thank god the majority of the money comes from silent, inexperienced and powerless individuals who couldnt affect the projects development even if they wanted to.
 

VR Golgot

VR Golgot
LittleAnt said:
They will be. A Hull E cannot be loaded by hand, it had more than 500 containers. Even if they change its structure, containers will be counted by hundred so manually charging will not be an option.
Hull_E_Blueprint.jpg


We don't know how CIG will handle the loading. It will depend of what they can achieve in their prototype. The simplest solution would be to hide the loading in a closed dock but it can't be with the actual infos we have. Hull cannot land or lift off when full so they must be loaded in space. And they are too big to enter the actual space stations. So the loading will be visible. A simple one can be big drones getting containers in dock and attaching them to the Hull in space. The Hull need also to be docked to the station and the docking engine is not here yet. Another problem CIG had tell us is that the grid engine has to be adapted to handle the Hull folding mechanism. It doesn't work well in their prototype atm. So we will not see them in game for a long time (as usually with CIG).
Click to expand...


So given you're aware of some of their technical struggles, and how far off they are from having this as an operating system, it's interesting that you assume they can / will get it done ;)

Just as a recap. As of Dec 2019, the Hull C needed:

  • Chris's refactor of the physics system, which had recently been implemented at that point and was 'in the game'.
  • Ship-to-station docking to be worked up with that blocker removed.
  • The sliding physics grids in the Hull series to be worked up with that blocker removed.
  • Larger cargo containers to be added to the game.

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mawF0Gzy5o&t=41m55s


Some notable recent roadmapping issues:


Bonus errata:


---

Given that backdrop, I'm not hugely convinced they've got the tech, or the game design, in a particularly great place as yet. Or that their functioning arrival is an inevitability ;)
 
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Darkfyre99

Darkfyre99
Agony_Aunt said:
So, CIG will spend time implementing a manual loading system, only for everyone to use the automated loading system.

Sounds about right for CIG.
Click to expand...
Of course they did. How else do you expect those who paid thousands of dollars for massive ships to play out their power fantasies, unless they're allowed to pay minimum wage to those foolish enough to buy the basic package to load their ships for them by hand? Get with the program here. :D
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Navigare Necesse Est said:
It was detailing too much? I thought the dev team fell apart and the initial design with FFA kill anyone just didn't find an audience.
Click to expand...

It was based on the idea of everything detailed down to the smallest things. Backers loved the idea of it. But when they finally started to play it, and more people came in, less hardcore people, the devs discovered if they continued as they were, they wouldn't make many sales.

Now, SC backers love to say CIG are free to make the game they want and CR's vision is also for very detailed and immersive stuff. But again, CIG will be looking to appeal to a wider audience, especially now they have actual investors with a decent stake in the company, expecting a good ROI. So, while backers love to talk about all these immersive things, they will be a turn off to the wider audience, and when push comes you shove, you can bet your last dollar that CIG will cave to pressure to make things less hassle, and to sacrifice immersion in place of gameplay (assuming CIG ever make it that far).
 

Sunyavadin

Sunyavadin
Chevy66 said:
There was a mission in Mafia where you had to carry boxes to a truck, it was annoying enough doing it once. This is supposed to be futuristic, haven't they got conveyers, fork lifts and cranes?
Click to expand...
Certainly in ED's lore, we have them. In Premonition there's that scene where a loading robot keeps bringing them the goods, and each time they hack its logs so it thinks it's not loaded them. Now that's a minigame on the loading dock I could get behind when trying to purchase rare commodities. Way more practical than some kind of manual loading one.
 
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