Yeah, this is how it's been acting for me as well.
Credit bonuses for "complete star system" scanning
- Thread starter Sapyx
- Start date
The last two times I sold my data by the page (over the last week or so) I got a lot of discovery and mapping bonuses. I've been hitting a few systems here and there that no one has ever been to apparently. These bonuses seem to be very small however. Mapping just one terraformable would be a lot more than those aggregate bonuses, unless I'm not reading the panels correctly.
I agree, UC's bonuses are not very lucrative. Discovery (whether first or not) and mapping seem to be much better for your bank (see below).
Here's the breakout of earnings from regular exploration of a system, screens from my FC's UC UI:
Note the difference between unmapped and mapped planet payouts -- up to about 10x as much for mapping. Some of the planets listed were part of a twin-planet pair, so were very similar in characteristics, and I mapped only one of them to show the difference in earnings for the mapping. All of the objects in this system had been First Discovered By a different Commander, but I believe the payouts would have been the same regardless of any previous firsts.
First Discovery earns only small credit bonuses, First Mapping, zero credit bonuses. Same system as above, all mappings were First Mappings:
Once I get a First Discovered By+FIrst Mapped by example I'll post the screens.
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There is a page in the Codex that explains how bonuses are given.
Quote:
"The value of each system's data is calculated by a number of factors:"
Meaning bonuses are only given for the firsts. It encourages you to fully scan and map a system if you are the first to do that. A full rescan does not make sense.
If I understand the text correctly, the first-to-fully-scan-a-system-bonus will only be granted if all objects were dicovered for the first time. This means that there has to be no name tag on the main star!
The first-to-fully-map-a-system-bonus will only be granted if none of the planets were mapped before.
If I am the first in a system, I scan it completely (even the moons of the planets vertically placed on the map, also called "planets" in the game) and map the interesting ones. Leaving something to scan for others is the complete opposite to every explorers mindset and you also do not know if someone will ever scan the rest.
Quote:
"The value of each system's data is calculated by a number of factors:"
Meaning bonuses are only given for the firsts. It encourages you to fully scan and map a system if you are the first to do that. A full rescan does not make sense.
If I understand the text correctly, the first-to-fully-scan-a-system-bonus will only be granted if all objects were dicovered for the first time. This means that there has to be no name tag on the main star!
The first-to-fully-map-a-system-bonus will only be granted if none of the planets were mapped before.
If I am the first in a system, I scan it completely (even the moons of the planets vertically placed on the map, also called "planets" in the game) and map the interesting ones. Leaving something to scan for others is the complete opposite to every explorers mindset and you also do not know if someone will ever scan the rest.
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Well, it's slightly hidden, but still.... Cheers* 
My screenshot above shows that a "First Mapped" bonus (assuming all "bonuses" are in spacebucks) isn't given, at least not by the FC's UC module. Since the Codex entry mentions tags separately, looks clear to me that a cred bonus should be given for First Mapped By, but currently is not. Someone should test this at a station, see if it's consistent. I'm too far into the black for that at the moment.
I can test the "First to Fully Map System" bonus today on the same system as used for the screenshots above, as I deliberately left a few unmapped for comparison purposes. In addition, rings are considered separate astronomical bodies but no credit bonuses are given for either First Discovery or First Mapping, though they are listed in the payout screens, but with zero earnings or bonus. I'll try to get an example today, though ringed systems have gotten less common in the area I'm in. I will also test the System Fully Discovered/FullyMapped bonus if I come across a virgin system.
Either there are bugs in the payout code, or the Codex needs updating. BTW Frontier Support has refused to reimburse me for exploration data bonuses lost to a bug that denied them, so if you have a beef with them about it, don't bother asking.
EDIT: An interesting statement in a reply I got from Frontier Support just this a.m.:
"I must point out that we generally do not have the ability to change first discovery attributions, they're usually hard-written into the game so if you have any doubts in the meantime I would recommend avoiding selling individual system data at fleet carriers. " (my emphasis)
All system data is individual system data, am I right? So I guess selling exploradata at a carrier UC module is a little bit hinky, Commanders. You pays your 5+ billion spacebucks and you takes your chances. Muchas gracias, FDevs
I can test the "First to Fully Map System" bonus today on the same system as used for the screenshots above, as I deliberately left a few unmapped for comparison purposes. In addition, rings are considered separate astronomical bodies but no credit bonuses are given for either First Discovery or First Mapping, though they are listed in the payout screens, but with zero earnings or bonus. I'll try to get an example today, though ringed systems have gotten less common in the area I'm in. I will also test the System Fully Discovered/FullyMapped bonus if I come across a virgin system.
Either there are bugs in the payout code, or the Codex needs updating. BTW Frontier Support has refused to reimburse me for exploration data bonuses lost to a bug that denied them, so if you have a beef with them about it, don't bother asking.
EDIT: An interesting statement in a reply I got from Frontier Support just this a.m.:
"I must point out that we generally do not have the ability to change first discovery attributions, they're usually hard-written into the game so if you have any doubts in the meantime I would recommend avoiding selling individual system data at fleet carriers. " (my emphasis)
All system data is individual system data, am I right? So I guess selling exploradata at a carrier UC module is a little bit hinky, Commanders. You pays your 5+ billion spacebucks and you takes your chances. Muchas gracias, FDevs
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I must be missing something. Your own screenshots shows you're getting a First Mapped bonus of approx x10. You're not getting the paltry 10k/body for Fully First Mapping the system because you didn't fully first map it ?
You could take a look at your journal files (if you're playing on PC). There's a log entry for everything you sell. If you sell multiple systems at once it looks like this:
Code:
{ "timestamp":"2020-07-02T17:06:21Z", "event":"MultiSellExplorationData", "Discovered":[ { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g0", "NumBodies":1 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g1", "NumBodies":22 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g2", "NumBodies":28 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g3", "NumBodies":2 }, { "SystemName":"Phroea Bluae YE-A g4", "NumBodies":1 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g4", "NumBodies":13 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g5", "NumBodies":17 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g6", "NumBodies":14 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou CL-Y g6", "NumBodies":1 }, { "SystemName":"Phroea Bluae BA-A g7", "NumBodies":4 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g7", "NumBodies":3 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou CL-Y g7", "NumBodies":1 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g8", "NumBodies":12 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g9", "NumBodies":11 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g10", "NumBodies":5 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g11", "NumBodies":7 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g12", "NumBodies":9 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g13", "NumBodies":1 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g14", "NumBodies":30 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g15", "NumBodies":3 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g16", "NumBodies":25 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g17", "NumBodies":6 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g18", "NumBodies":3 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g19", "NumBodies":13 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g20", "NumBodies":1 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g21", "NumBodies":3 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g22", "NumBodies":60 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g23", "NumBodies":2 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g24", "NumBodies":1 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g25", "NumBodies":10 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g26", "NumBodies":8 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g27", "NumBodies":1 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g28", "NumBodies":3 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g29", "NumBodies":10 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g30", "NumBodies":29 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g31", "NumBodies":1 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g32", "NumBodies":2 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g33", "NumBodies":10 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g34", "NumBodies":24 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g35", "NumBodies":3 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g36", "NumBodies":11 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g37", "NumBodies":8 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g38", "NumBodies":4 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g39", "NumBodies":41 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g40", "NumBodies":36 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g41", "NumBodies":30 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g42", "NumBodies":11 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g43", "NumBodies":12 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou EG-Y g44", "NumBodies":22 }, { "SystemName":"Phroi Blou AA-A h360", "NumBodies":3 } ], "BaseValue":7397912, "Bonus":413250, "TotalEarnings":7811162 }At the end of this entry you see the three values: 'BaseValue, 'Bonus' and 'TotalEarnings'.
If the 'Bonus' value is zero you received no mapping or first discovery bonus.
If youre on pc, download EDDiscovery. There's a tab that tells you the value of everything scanned. Very useful.
Read more carefully. The earnings (not bonuses) listed in the payout screen are from the act of mapping the objects. You get that whether or not you are the first or fiftieth to map them. The "Accolades" screen shows that there is zero bonus for First Map of those objects. The only Accolade given is the tag on the planet in the SysMap.
This is assuming that the "Accolades" screen is an accurate reflection of the situation, in which I am coming to have less confidence .
Interesting, but a bit deeper than I care to delve at the moment. After I log out of the game for a break I will check this out, thanks for the pointer.
This has been linked previously in this thread. You would not receive 10x for mapping the body. You only get that kind of multiplier for First Mapping. If someone else goes out to those same bodies you just First Mapped, they will get less of a payout.
With all due respect that post was made 4 years ago and many updates and changes have been made since. Many bugs introduced as well, sad to say. In any case, I'm posting about how the UC module in my FC treats different kinds of exploradata, base on its reports in the UI.
So, if the "bonus" for First Mapping is included in the UC payout screen I posted, why then the need to include a report of First Mapping credit bonuses (zero) in the "Accolades" screen? Why treat First Mapping differently from First Discovery, which is not included in the payout screen and is added later by the Accolades screen? Makes no sense, although I admit FDev making sense is not always reliable.
Here are some more instances of various kinds of earnings payout and bonuses, according to the UC UI on my FC (other sources of data are yet to be investigated):
I returned to the system noted above where I skipped some mapping of planets and complete mapping the entire system. UC returned these screens (combined for brevity):
No bonus for "First Mapping the Entire System" listed. Also note that the payout for the 4th planet is extraordinarily large compared to that for the comparable planets -- they were all HMCs of similar size and varying composition, but planet 4 rates a better earning for mapping. Odd. At a stretch the otherwise not visible (non-existent?) reward for mapping the entire system might be added into the earning for a single planet, but that's a little byzantine for my taste (but, as shown below byzantine and bizarre become SOP).
On the off chance that mapping the system above in two sessions somehow affected the payouts, I also First-mapped all planets in another system, all at the same time:
Again, no bonuses for either First Mapping or "First Mapping the Whole Shebang" are reported.
Next example shows planets both First Discovered and First Mapped. This was a much more extensive system with most of its planets orbiting a star nearly 500kls distant -- I skipped those, and mapped only the closer few. First Discovered+First Mapped are broken out and apparently get different bonuses than merely First Discovered or First Mapped, but it's unclear how much bonus for each planet can be divided between these two Accolades -- not enough data for that in the UI report.
And now for the incident that makes me want to just 86 this whole discussion because it's gonna drive me crazier. I scanned and mapped some planets in a system that has ringed planets, to illustrate how the FC UC UI treats those. Here's the system with my First Mapped By tags displayed:
But the UC module in my FC returned this when I submitted the data for payout:
This is the "Accolades" screen from my earlier submission, but shorn of the "First Discovered By" aspect. Whaaaaat????
Like I said above, my confidence in the accuracy of the FC UC module reporting has been slashed close to zero now. Maybe digging through reams of log listings and other deeper sources might shed light on the insanity but that's not my job. Back to actually trying to get some exploring done.
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I'm sorry, but it appears you haven't read much past the first post's date. It was updated with the latest values when they were changed, and still represents our best knowledge of how actual payouts work. Unfortunately, as you yourself have found out, the displayed values on the new FC UC page are bugged, and you have to track how many credits you actually get, not what the interface says. Then there's also the bugs when you're selling individual systems, and not entire pages, and so on.
Actually I read the entire first post and the posts it updated from (in the Spoilers) and there is not much difference in the approach to the math other than the use of new values from the game. The methodology (irrespective of its effectiveness) is still four years old. This doesn't change its potential effectiveness (hence the "All due respect") but the many references to assumptions and seems and maybes about the details of the approach that are seen throughout the thread raise the possibility that not all changes in the game are accounted for. MattG comments on this uncertainty himself in a number of cases, e.g., regarding terraformables.
When I first posted in this thread I made it clear that it was based on using the Fleet Carrier UC module, the only in-game reference available to me at this time. I also mentioned it would be useful to compare what happens at a Station UC office. MattG made some assertions about the figures seen on my screenshots but gave nothing in the way of concrete support of those assertions, some of which seemed nonsensical. Perhaps these issues are all due to bugs in the UC implementation in FCs, but this needs to be documented, not assumed. I've posted what the game provides and identified at least one instance where the FC UC failed its task. There have been others, duly reported to Frontier. But one cannot simply assume that all discrepancies between what the game shows and what MattG postulates are due to bugs or poor UI design and implementation. That has to be proven.
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With the exception of selling individual system data, what bugs in the UI or FC module do you think you see?
Until today, for me selling individual pages has been fine. Doing so had documented all the First Discoveries and First Mappings I had made in the report screens. By contrast, selling all pages at once has led to 1) Getting two out of about 20 Firsts documented and/or rewarded -- I reported this and was told tough luck, it's a bug, nothing we can do. But I guess they did do something because it was mentioned in some patch notes a while back. I nonetheless sold pages individually with complete success (and reported that as well). That was when I first noticed that First Mappings were (apparently) not being rewarded with bonus credits per the UI. After about two weeks of selling individual pages (with no issues) I decided to 2) try again with a small number of pages to sell them all at once, since it was ostensibly fixed. That time, the UI reported none of my Firsts of any type. Zilch. Nada. Null. However, the fact that the FC UC takes 25% of First bonuses as a fee (which the FC owner can recover, btw) indicated that my bank was credited with bonus rewards, though I could not quantify them. I guess the log would help there but I had other tasks at the time. I also checked the SysMaps of the systems in question and all the proper First tags were displayed. The UI just failed to provide the usual screen documenting all this. I reported the incident, and went back to selling individual pages.
This went all A-OK until today when the incident described at the end of post #52 above occurred, and made even individual page sales suspect. So far that's the only bug in individual page sales I can document, but it's a biggie.
I understand the massive amount of work you put into your exploration data evaluation project and it's quite respectable, and I'm sure quite valuable for some, so kudos for the accomplishment. But in some ways it doesn't jibe with what the game currently presents in the FC UC UI, which I understand (particularly after today) is suspect but can't be wholly discounted without proof. A good place to start, as I suggested, is a comparison of what an FC UC module and a station UC contact reports for comparable data.
If it can be shown that a station UC documents actual cred bonuses for First Mapping in the Accolades screen, then it's a strong indicator that the FC version is, as I reported, completely borked. It would not surprise me.
I'm 2.5Kly out in the black and headed even farther out, so that task is for someone else that might be interested. It may have already been done, but I've seen no reports of such.
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The base value for an FSS scan of a tagged HMC is ~10k.
The total multiplier for first mapped and first discovered is about x10 so if both bonuses are applied you'd expect to get ~100k. Which you did.
First mapped but not first discovered would be about ~80k, as would first discovery without mapping.
Mapping an already discovered and mapped one would net you ~30k.
Assuming the credits you are getting are matching what is being reported in the UC screenshots you have shown then everything is working in line with the Exploration Value Formulae thread in terms of total credits. How those are displayed in the UI is another matter but as far as the credits you actually get goes it all looks to be working properly.
If the tags are appearing in the systems properly as well then everything but the sale screen is working fine. Personally I click through that as fast as I can when I'm offloading data generally so it could be casting aspersions on my parentage or accusing me of frequent bestiality for all I care.
If we could get first discoveries reported individually in the journals again that would be nice though.
The total multiplier for first mapped and first discovered is about x10 so if both bonuses are applied you'd expect to get ~100k. Which you did.
First mapped but not first discovered would be about ~80k, as would first discovery without mapping.
Mapping an already discovered and mapped one would net you ~30k.
Assuming the credits you are getting are matching what is being reported in the UC screenshots you have shown then everything is working in line with the Exploration Value Formulae thread in terms of total credits. How those are displayed in the UI is another matter but as far as the credits you actually get goes it all looks to be working properly.
If the tags are appearing in the systems properly as well then everything but the sale screen is working fine. Personally I click through that as fast as I can when I'm offloading data generally so it could be casting aspersions on my parentage or accusing me of frequent bestiality for all I care.
If we could get first discoveries reported individually in the journals again that would be nice though.
Nope, the cr107,755 for the HMC planet listed in the payout section of the first screenshot of post #52 is for First Mapping only of a world already First Discovered, as I stated in post #43. Note that the Accolades screen in that screenshot shows that planet #4 in the system is in the First To Map but not the First to Discover category. Comparable planets in the same system, also First Mapped but not First Discovered, earned a little over 80k each. A so-called First To Map the System Entirely bonus is nowhere in evidence, far as I can tell.
You as well as MattG have indicated you think the First Mapping and First Discovery bonuses are included in the figures displayed on the Payout screen, the one that lists all the system components and their payout values. Why then is an additional bonus given in the Accolades screens for First Discovery? And why then is First Mapping treated as a separate Accolades screen report that is listed as zero bonus credits? The former implies a double bonus and the latter implies a wholly redundant Accolades screen section that would be instantly recognized as a bug if your assumption is valid. The inconsistencies cast doubt on both your formulae and on the reporting from a FC UC module, with not enough information available to resolve the inconsistencies.
Also of relevance is whether or not the FC UC module takes its cut from the First bonuses if, as you say, they are included in the Payout screen figures. That would skew the results from your formulae if not accounted for. I can confirm that the module does take a cut from figures reported in the Accolades screens (apparently only First To Discover bonuses) because the 25% debited from the bonuses shows up in my FC's bank account, every time I have bonus credits reported. This makes quantifying the exact amount of such bonuses difficult because the FC UC UI reports the bonus amount after the cut is taken. I have yet to determine if the FC UC module also takes a cut from non-bonus earnings listed in the Payouts screen.
With all due respect, you are talking as if formulae which have been extensively tested as accurate are actually wrong without giving any solid proof that they are. The burden of proof is on you.
If you're unsure of what would be needed (so far, your screenshots have lacked important information, such as your number of credits before and after the sale), I could list them for you.
Don't get me wrong, it would be great if you actually proved that Frontier silently changed things and there are new payouts. (Other than the carrier tax deductions, of course.) That would mean we could improve calculations.
But to me, it seems that you are getting confused by a confusing new interface, what with its "accolades" and such. That in itself doesn't mean exploration data values have changed.
Oh, and as far as I can tell, the carrier tax is deducted from what would be the final sale value. (Haven't tried it with a LYR bonus, for obvious reasons.) More tests would always be welcome, of course.
If you're unsure of what would be needed (so far, your screenshots have lacked important information, such as your number of credits before and after the sale), I could list them for you.
Don't get me wrong, it would be great if you actually proved that Frontier silently changed things and there are new payouts. (Other than the carrier tax deductions, of course.) That would mean we could improve calculations.
But to me, it seems that you are getting confused by a confusing new interface, what with its "accolades" and such. That in itself doesn't mean exploration data values have changed.
Oh, and as far as I can tell, the carrier tax is deducted from what would be the final sale value. (Haven't tried it with a LYR bonus, for obvious reasons.) More tests would always be welcome, of course.
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OK, let's play. Planet 4. You originally just FSSed this body and sold the data for 8622 credits (which includes no bonuses, I believe). You then went back and mapped the planet, and were the First Mapper. From the formula, the multiplier for this is 8.0956. I'm assuming you hit the efficiency bonus, so an additional 1.25. You've also hit the peculiar - but not undocumented - rule where you can earn extra credits by selling FSS data first then going back and mapping. As you were not the original First Dircoverer, this bonus is 1.23524 .
8622 x 8.0956 x 1.25 x 1.23524 = 107775. If you'd mapped this body on the first run, the latter multiplier wouldn't apply and you'd have got 87250 - much like what you sold the other bodies for. With a bit more effort, I'd be able to tell you the mass of the HMC but alas, I lack coffee this morning.
The Accolades screen is telling you what tags you got. If you happen to get all the First Discoverer and/or First Mapped tags on all the bodies, you'll also get an additional bonus. It would also seem you need to get all the tags in the same sitting - scanning/mapping some, then going back to do the rest doesn't look to get you the bonus. Earnings from the First Discoverer multiplier and/or the First Mapper multiplier for the individual bodies are not represented here at all.
The figures shown in UC on an FC all takes into account the 25% hit. Payout or bonuses. You only receive 12.5% of this - I have verified this, though not since last patch. If you're actually receiving 25% and not 12.5% then raise it as a bug and provide evidence to FDev.
You should remember that FDev have never published how UC earnings work, nor the bonuses. They are black box. The most they've said is already documented - terraformables earn more, First Discovered earns more, First Mapped earns more etc. They've never provided numbers though. If they wanted us to know, they'd provide details.