Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

If you were say embedded or involved with CryTek/CryEngine at a corporate/professional development level during 2012/13, then you would either have to be a complete idiot or wilfully negligent in believing you could produce a large scale flight or space sim, without a ground up re-write of CryEngine.
(...)

The sad thing is the folk who have invested $300million+ in this fantasy, have probably given enough funding to develop such an engine, provided they could sit on their impatience for a decade or so and have no playable demo or product.
The problems go a lot further than just the 32 bit coord system. The engine was made specifically for FPS games around the LAN Party era. The main loop managed networking, physics, player movement, etc. all in one. Touch one thing and the other parts start to crack and crumble. It was made for a time where CPU were single core and high end were dual core, and max player count was 16 on a lag-less LAN connection. Every part of this engine is a consequence of that. Also coordinate trickery will imply physics trickery, as everything will be off in density, weight, etc. Better not twist the original intent...

As for the decade or so: as long as we are talking about a bespoke engine, it's 2-3 years for a competent team, not 10. It's what it takes in in the industry, so far. Would have been a game changer if that decision had been taken back in 2012. I'll further this argument by pointing at quite a few existing engines that are around, and the collected experiences from these (starting with EvE which clearly showed the limitations of a centralized, single cluster, transaction-on-write database system). Even back then we had a lot of insight about how to code an MMO and what were the traps. CiG did fall in every single of these traps, like complete newbies, just like if their lead developer was coming straight from the early 90's... hmmm.. who would that be...
 
The 32 bit addressing issue (and Roberts' claim that it was a simple switch to make) was the source of significant hilarity.
"Simple" might be pushing it, and there were occasional fires to put out later, but it certainly didn't require scrapping most of the engine. Most of the things that break when you have 64-bit positioning are already bad practices on 4km maps at 32-bit.
 
"Simple" might be pushing it, and there were occasional fires to put out later, but it certainly didn't require scrapping most of the engine. Most of the things that break when you have 64-bit positioning are already bad practices on 4km maps at 32-bit.
These were acceptable shortcuts in the context of an FPS game though, werent they ? And yeah i heard the code was a good lot of undocumented spaghetti...
 
Zyloh even played all of the NPC missions. However they determined the missions were not up to CIG standards and needed to be redone. Can't have NPCs playing substandard missions!

That was after CR said he would put SQ42 up against any AAA game out there. 2014 IIRC.

So...

2012 CR says SQ42 will be done in 2-3 years
2014, CR saying he would put it up against any AAA game out htere
2016, Zyloh says he's played through the levels
2018(?) CIG throw everything out because it wasn't good enough
2020 meant to be in internal beta, they are now making a roadmap for a roadmap for SQ42
2022 - ? CR announces they are starting to work on SQ42?

Something about this whole thing seem's bottom backwards.
 
A faithful backer says:

I know, I know, there's a lot of controversy surrounding JPEG purchases but a lot of people don't understand what pledging is. I can't emphasize enough that we are NOT. PURCHASING. SHIPS. We pledge to help development and in return, we get early and permanent access to a ship.

Yeah, let's see how funding goes if they instead simply asked for money not tied to spaceships. I'm sure that would go work well. Totally sure people will "pledge" to see the game made without getting ships in return.
 

Deleted member 257907

D
its the early access microtransaction inside a early access title.
 
The problems go a lot further than just the 32 bit coord system. The engine was made specifically for FPS games around the LAN Party era. The main loop managed networking, physics, player movement, etc. all in one. Touch one thing and the other parts start to crack and crumble. It was made for a time where CPU were single core and high end were dual core, and max player count was 16 on a lag-less LAN connection. Every part of this engine is a consequence of that. Also coordinate trickery will imply physics trickery, as everything will be off in density, weight, etc. Better not twist the original intent...

As for the decade or so: as long as we are talking about a bespoke engine, it's 2-3 years for a competent team, not 10. It's what it takes in in the industry, so far. Would have been a game changer if that decision had been taken back in 2012. I'll further this argument by pointing at quite a few existing engines that are around, and the collected experiences from these (starting with EvE which clearly showed the limitations of a centralized, single cluster, transaction-on-write database system). Even back then we had a lot of insight about how to code an MMO and what were the traps. CiG did fall in every single of these traps, like complete newbies, just like if their lead developer was coming straight from the early 90's... hmmm.. who would that be...
True - I was giving a for instance and a main factor, not the only one (of which there were/are many) and I completely agree with the "proper" multi-threading thing. Most engines to this day are/were designed to run on a single core, which is why in 2006 Intel came to us to help them showcase their "new" multi-core CPUs at their launch event (we'll ignore that multi-core was essentially around in the mid-late 80's with Inmos ;) ).

I wouldn't say 2-3 years for an engine of the scope that SC is trying to achieve from scratch. COBRA/Stellarforge has been around since 1993, VU2 in Falcon 4 since 1992/3, which are still ground breaking "never been done before" engines of the same variety SC's aspires to be. Both of those were decade plus developments (even if there were mishaps and circumstances preventing full on development along the way) and the latter's development was somewhat responsible for the demise of Microprose. I'll grant you that a "normal" game engine to do a bit of FPS and even some RTS stuff could be done in 2-3 years, but that's impractical for "simple" titles, when there are good SDK's for that kind of thing in ID Tech x, Unreal, CryEngine. If you want 400 billion PG star systems or a real time war simulation with 10,000's of entities then that's a different ball game. Eagle Dynamics is only now after 17-20 years revealing they "may" have a dynamic campaign engine coming mid-2021.

The point of my post was that its hard to believe someone on the inside of Crytek (or very close to them at the time) and with industry experience, could ever think that CryEngine could become COBRA/Stellarforge/VU2 in a couple of years and run that engine development in parallel to the title development that's going to run on top of it. A media industry veteran may also have other explanations for the over confidence in the timeline, but those are probably not for a public forum ;)
 
Why is Relic (a SC shill) saying ASAP? How does he know? What position does he hold to tell people they are needing filling ASAP? Does he think that filling those positions will bring CIG any closer to delivering a quality product?

Source: https://twitter.com/listening2day/status/1293979877587079168?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1293979877587079168%7Ctwgr%5E&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.somethingawful.com%2Fshowthread.php%3Fthreadid%3D3898069userid%3D0perpage%3D40pagenumber%3D1029


Hah, its apparently 101 now. I think last time i looked it was 70-something.


Love how they show off their space door they bought with backers money.

So... are CIG losing more than they are hiring or are they growing?

Some quality replies to the tweet:

no, they're just growing as this has been the most successful year by far for cig

As usual, conflating money in with success when output has significantly declined.

My favourite one. Ooooh, and its from Noobifier.

Is the position for CEO open? Haven’t seen much activity since 2019...

And...

Looks like they losing the peoples...

no, they're just growing as this has been the most successful year by far for cig

Are you sure? You know how many peoples are working now? Just let me know please

Yeah I'm certain as they currently have 475~ staff members

And this is growing? One year ago it was about 550-600, and then was less and less, after New Year holidays one group leave CIG with 60peoples... :)

Way to score an own goal there by the defender of the faith. :D
 
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Of course we'll never know what these 100+ positions are about... Because most open development ever.

uh

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Genuine Robert's will have had a huddle:

"Yeahh erm, yeahh lads - we only have under one system - and we need to get to beta this year! Let's hire 100 people and get them to work on one system each!"

Sound like time for

"the Next Great Star System"

1000 backer teams
The CIG Pip line tools

10 teams each given the brief on a system from the star map

Best implementation of that system wins statues of their team in the capital space port of the system.
 
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