Yes please
Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12
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While DB noodled around with the idea of that engine for years, true development didnt start before much, much later, that was around the KS when he actually assembled a team to do it. I could cite quite a few other examples, but that's OOT here - the point is, SC is not as ground breaking as people make it, and with the amount of funding it got, they could have afforded a crack team of experts and mount that solution in the 2-3 years timeframe i mentioned. I am of course talking about the core game engine, not the fluff (no game balance, place holder assets only, etc.) - so networking first, the multi agent system at the core with dynamic cloud support, etc. and of course the 3D renderer. Then when that's done add ships, more intense graphic niceties (that arent changing the gameplay..), gameplay loops etc. but what i mean by 2015 we would have had a solid foundation for a space MMO.
It's a different set of priorities too, and studio size. Still they managed to get something out of the door long before that and it's now the reference flight sim.
My point is they are working much harder trying to shoe horn their full size space MMO into that engine, rather than just doing theirs, with the same people (who had experience in programming 3D engines). It's a common issue in software projects, that i see quite often, and a major source of failure of said projects.The point of my post was that its hard to believe someone on the inside of Crytek (or very close to them at the time) and with industry experience, could ever think that CryEngine could become COBRA/Stellarforge/VU2 in a couple of years and run that engine development in parallel to the title development that's going to run on top of it. A media industry veteran may also have other explanations for the over confidence in the timeline, but those are probably not for a public forum
Every time I come here to catch up in the back of my head I'm wondering, what did Chris Roberts really have to show investors to get them to throw into this.
Someone reposted The Agents posts from 2019 talking about earth and land claims. It has me wondering...
Did Chris say hey, look what these people are spending on space ships, wait till you see what they spend on land claims, with some perspective figures and that's what hooked em?
Would they have invested in a game this far behind, having access to people in the know to get assessments from? Or were they investing in the apparatus to sell these digital items?
If not for that, was it the con of the century by Roberts if he managed to convince them regular game sales and maybe the prospects of consoles that would bring in the return?
Just kind of thinking out loud but would love more analyst business talk on this aspect from people in the field / know.
What do investors see to give Roberts money, not as a pledge but on a level to get a return?
Someone reposted The Agents posts from 2019 talking about earth and land claims. It has me wondering...
Did Chris say hey, look what these people are spending on space ships, wait till you see what they spend on land claims, with some perspective figures and that's what hooked em?
Would they have invested in a game this far behind, having access to people in the know to get assessments from? Or were they investing in the apparatus to sell these digital items?
If not for that, was it the con of the century by Roberts if he managed to convince them regular game sales and maybe the prospects of consoles that would bring in the return?
Just kind of thinking out loud but would love more analyst business talk on this aspect from people in the field / know.
What do investors see to give Roberts money, not as a pledge but on a level to get a return?
Viajero
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Could be indeed a combination of all that. But at the core I reckon it is simply the current cash inflows (if you believe CIG's tracker that is) that is more than enough as a return to justify investments. As long as investors have some kind of say about dev direction and cost control to ensure the margins are protected, there is not even need for a release.
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I guess catering service for an investor party to keep the important people happy. Backer money well spent ^^
Well he got his starting stock with nifty pictures and the investors got interested once he demonstrated how complete his control over his army of mindless drones is allowing him to do whatever without consequences. Maybe he promised them some illusion as well but if he did he ll regret it for sure.
Could be indeed a combination of all that. But at the core I reckon it is simply the current cash inflows (if you believe CIG's tracker that is) that is more than enough as a return to justify investments. As long as investors have some kind of say about dev direction and cost control to ensure the margins are protected, there is not even need for a release.
I thought due to previous documents the companies produced they were shown to be operating at a loss, or is that just what they say on the surface and actually turn a profit in the back room?
Well, technically speaking, its all operating at a loss since its all "pledges" for the moment. They don't have a product to sell.
But if you mean money in vs money out, then most months its estimated they are losing money (while in good months coming out ahead), and it was apparent that back in 2018 they were running on fumes and they only survived thanks to the Calder investment.
Maybe the Calders are looking for a write-off....
Remember the "1$ in SC is worth 4 in a common inferior unambitious evil publisher's game"... Maybe they do the trick and display 4 times the money they receive
Joking though, because unless they also lied about their financial figures they'd be deep in the red and already dead.
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Some of the bugs in SC have truly never been done before
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Could be indeed a combination of all that. But at the core I reckon it is simply the current cash inflows (if you believe CIG's tracker that is) that is more than enough as a return to justify investments. As long as investors have some kind of say about dev direction and cost control to ensure the margins are protected, there is not even need for a release.
What the hell happened in May 2020?
Here's my most recent tin foil hattery. What stops Roberts from having accounts created for the game, and giving them free ships / assets and then unloading them on the grey market for whatever he can?
I wonder how big the grey market actually is and how much stuff is moving through it. Sales dry up so you start stacking up sweet selections on accounts and selling them at a loss, which is still a gain because you created them out of an email address and some time.
How many initial small level people who wouldn't have bought in otherwise got sucked in via grey market "deals" and are now emotionally invested in the experience?
I wonder how big the grey market actually is and how much stuff is moving through it. Sales dry up so you start stacking up sweet selections on accounts and selling them at a loss, which is still a gain because you created them out of an email address and some time.
How many initial small level people who wouldn't have bought in otherwise got sucked in via grey market "deals" and are now emotionally invested in the experience?
Calder comes from movie finance. I suppose Freyermuth had ties with him.
Yeah they talk about their history together in Germany fleecing the government in the Sunk Cost Fallacy videos.
Yeah, "Silly German Money" was the thing that put Freyermuth in the biz.
![[VR] Merkir](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/141/141091.jpg?1553527154){kind=avatar}
They're operating a business where ALL operating expenses are paid for by what are, in effect, donations. They don't need to use their own money. They don't need to use consolidated revenue from past game sales (there are none). They don't need business loans. They don't need investors to inject more funds to buy their remaining shares. The owners (other than Calders) have absolutely no financial risk whatsoever.
They have a seemingly unlimited river of funds with little or no conditions, other than an obligation to deliver a game, and even that obligation is dubious.
The owners have shored up their own equity in a maze of companies built from these donations, and their share prices have been growing and solidified by the minority investors who, by investing, have established the benchmark share price, potentially valuing Chris Roberts' shares in the hundreds of millions of dollars.
I keep telling you good people, this is one of the best business models you could ever hope to imagine, even in your wildest dreams.
They have a seemingly unlimited river of funds with little or no conditions, other than an obligation to deliver a game, and even that obligation is dubious.
The owners have shored up their own equity in a maze of companies built from these donations, and their share prices have been growing and solidified by the minority investors who, by investing, have established the benchmark share price, potentially valuing Chris Roberts' shares in the hundreds of millions of dollars.
I keep telling you good people, this is one of the best business models you could ever hope to imagine, even in your wildest dreams.
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The Invictus event. A poorly managed event including a week of ship sales and a space firework around capital ships. Servers melted down preventing many to even launch the game. But strangely it turned out to be their best month ever in many regards.
That already was my thoughts back in 2016: we didn't back a game but a business model
Thats insane. Was it whale milk, or new blood?
Uhh, that stopped happening when the Calders put an oar in. If you believe the Agent that's already muddied up their business as usual. And yes they already ran out of money and the project should already be dead, that why the Calders are here (putting pressure on).