Question for Open players who don't like PVP/ganking... help me understand
- Thread starter Danquememe
- Start date
Well, the age of sail didn't have a 15 second logout timer.
Well, Blackbeards mistake was he had a lousy FSD on the Queen Annes Revenge and needed to Git Gud- then he could have high waked before ATR turned up.
Ah but what about the "rules" of the Pilots federation??
I think to riff off what (I think) Havvk is trying to get at, the problem is that there is a consequence imbalance.
We can all sit here and say that every playstyle is valid, but ganking is the only playstyle that actively impacts other players in a significant way. It isn't like someone can trade at you too hard, or mine you into oblivion. When everyone else plays the game their way, it does not affect you in the slightest. When you play the game your way, the impact is entirely negative. It causes annoyance and inconvenience for your victim, with minimal impact on you at all. As someone who embraces this playstyle as perfectly reasonable, you don't even feel bad. That's just how the game is for you, and fair enough.
Yeah, people could go and play in Solo. But that's very much a "my way or the highway" sort of sentiment, and it undermines the idea of every playstyle being valid. Again, all of the other playstyles aren't disruptive to anyone else: your chosen style is the only one with a detrimental impact on others, and that seems to be what earns you the negative backlash. But, because you're coming at it from a background of competitive PVP games (or what have you), that isn't necessarily on your radar. You aren't necessarily intending to ruin someone's day, but that is often the consequence of your actions and choices.
I think what Havvk has been trying to call out is the fact that the consequence for your playstyle does not balance out the impact it has on others. Right now, the consequence for you is money, and the longer you play this game the less and less impact that kind of consequence has. Personally, I would like to see consequences in the form of inconvenience: yeah, you can kill other players, but it should suck for you in a way other than a drop in the ocean of your veteran finances. Maybe there's some calculation based on the number of kills you've made versus the number of bounty vouchers you've turned in, and if that number starts getting too high the space stations in civilized systems stop offering services to a "notorious killer", or certain systems deny you entry. It won't ruin the game for you, but there's the inconvenience of having to go to other places, there's potentially star systems that are "safe" from someone who engages in your particular playstyle a certain amount, etc. Maybe it even works a bit like declaring loyalty to a faction in powerplay (ie. less consequence for others killing you), and/or like gaining rank with the Federation/Empire, where it perhaps unlocks permit locked "crime havens" or special modules or deals/discounts or something. Enough consequence via inconvenience to discourage casual KoS behaviour, but some actual benefits if it's a playstyle you want to fully embrace?
Also that PF being kind of überpowerfull organisation stuff. Well if that is so how it fits in with station vaporising you over minor traffic mistakes? Or local cops shooting you for little fun with NPC's. Authorities making that kind of decision against member of really powerfull society are very very brave indeed. Historically members of such cliques had legal immunity and could be judged only by their peers. Meaning people belonging to same clique. Say small town thief catcher arresting member of some noble family, or jailing overtly active inquisitor could certainly be career altering move. 
Last edited:
It's funny: irl I'm totally a law and order guy and look at riots and anarchy as little more than domestic terrorism... but when in game I love being a "bad guy." In my experience the game would be excruciatingly boring without villains.
Although like the wild west, people swapped sides depending on circumstances. Many "pirates" were tolerated and encouraged by the British if they attacked Spanish ships and vice versa. Some Sherriffs in the Wild West were corrupt and as bad as the criminals.
That's what games do, they allow people to play out their fantasies and most peoples fantasies are naughty <cough>.
I was once a Lost Soul, i was chasing my demons in the black. Colonia Jesus showed me the light, the darkness is gone now. He saved me.
From the Breaking News archive:
Where do I find the free kittens please?
Never a truer statement mate!
You can analogize open to Darwinism as a mode of its operation - whether people like it or not, it just is the way it is. We are all animals so respond to threats and the opportunity of perceived 'power' in a purely atavistic way - anyone who tries to say otherwise is either living in a dream, or heavily deluded.
We can all kid ourselves that we are 'better' than the next person, but we can't undo tens of thousands of years of hardwired neurology in a few years, as animals always resort to their subconscious behavior, certainly when threatened, or when survival matters.
Imagine who will 'win' if you put a 21st century biro-wielding philosopher in a room with a club-wielding caveman, starved them, then dropped a kumo-burger between them....
(I edited my final paragraph for party relevance!)
The kittens find you.
Deleted member 121570
D
I slightly disagree! I'd amend it to...
The only rule is to win with style.
Better to lose in style than win and look like a camel eating sherbet.
Ask Mother Hitton about hers?
(Apologies as it is an obscure sci-fi reference)
Mother Hitton's Littul Kittons
Last edited:
Colonia Jesus shown me the true way. I was once an overly sensitive soul, taking my first tentative steps into open play. When I found him, the way forward was clear. Praise Jesus!!
No CLogging huh?
Ganking can't even touch what happens between BGS players.
Colonia Jesus was the one who showed me the way of the ganker. Soon after that i met Colonia Jesus again and we ganked together. Sadly i never met him in colonia yet
So much to unpack here. Let's begin.
Ganking is the only playstyle that actively impacts other players in a significant way. Provably false - have you met people in BGS or Powerplay contention with each other? Two PMFs both wanting to expand to the same system cause each other more significant impact, stress and lost "progress" than me blowing up some dude at random. And even worse, they don't necessarily know who's opposing them. Unlike my simple, straightforward murderhobo ways. You can avoid me by going to PG or solo. Your PMF can be smashed into nothingness and you'll never know who did it. I know someone who actually ragequit the entire game over that.
Balancing out the "impact" it has on others is entirely irrelevant. The devs had made my playstyle valid, heard the complaints for years and have not changed anything. I want to hunt CMDRs and I do so. They are always welcome to hunt me back. The real imbalance here is that even if you got other gankers to back you - death is optional for me (and still irrelevant because credits are unimportant). You can't kill me unless I let you, even in open. Escape is basically always an option - the point we gankers have been educating the community on for years. The fact that our discord, and wonderful places like the Gank Evasion academy keep growing has shown that we're having a positive effect in getting our message across.
I'm afraid if you want to go with your idea for a balance against bounty hunters, also bad news: Gankers are masters of the PVE aspects out of the game by necessity. I just wiped out 80 some pirates today for a stack of wing massacre missions quite casually. These days we have FCs of our own on top of that - I need never return to a station, ever. Running joke in our world - constant, every 5 minute NPC interdictions, we call it the immersion timer. Oh, it's time for my NPC immersion again. Frankly I don't know that the PVP and ganker community care enough about special pve crime benefits unless it lets us blow people up even better.
We're nearly continuously inconvenienced and it won't stop us at all. Until the day the devs simply turn off PVP altogether, we will exist and we will find a way to work around any in game system you throw at us in an attempt to slow us down.
If you enter into the Open mode - PVP can happen at any time, without warning, rhyme or reason. The negative backlash and sentiment is irrelevant - the devs don't back hurt feelings in this regard. They've made clear statements in the past. We call hurt feelings salt with great affection because ultimately this is a video game. Throw shade at me and I'm going to laugh, so are my friends when I show it to them. The level of vitriol we receive in game over some pixels going boom once or twice is absolutely, mind bogglingly insane. I honestly feel sorry for the support staff that have to process reports from people who think sending death threats to a ganker is acceptable behavior over a video game. No one should have to read some of the truly horrific things that get thrown at us on a regular basis. My way or the highway is working as intended - don't wanna pvp, don't go into open. I'm not going to shame someone for using solo or a PG. They're tools in a video game to get the experience you desire. Open gives me that mode, you have other options. This is by design.
If you manage to avoid pure vitriol, and friend a ganker or accept a friend request from one you'll discover the shocking truth. We're just normal people playing a video game for fun. Go look at the many discords out there, and how many gankers are also, mysteriously mentors to new players. Last dude I ganked who didn't get salty we had a really nice conversation, after they told me about their goals and what they were working for I invited them over to my FC and handed them over 400m credits. Chump change to me, but for my "victim", the simple act of engaging in a polite conversation about the game and what our individual goals were lead to them getting a gigantic leg up. This isn't the first time I or others have done it either. I've given out something like 1.5b to my various victims - of my own accord, and always after they've engaged with me as a person, and not as some object of hate they must insult and belittle. And I gotta tell you - all those people I helped are now, in various ways, part of the pvp community.
TLDR: The impact of you choosing to go into open and getting blown up is irrelevant. Consequences of your choice, I can live with the consequences of mine, even thrive under them.