Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

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Why is there no giant box of popcorn in the emotes?

...and why on a posh RTX 2070 super is there only one HDMi output? Now I have to wait until I order a display port to HDMi cable/adapter...even my crappy old 1080ti has 2 HDMI outputs :cautious:

Maybe the manufacturers assume that after buying an RTX card you can only afford to run one monitor...
 
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I know it can be confusing for some that to hear that their opinion isn't the Ultimate True Opinion that everyone automatically shares or should share. But it does explain quite clearly what is happening here, as it happens here every single time: Someone shows up and says:"Hey, I kinda can like this project!". This, in itself, is not normally a provocative statement in a sub-forum where people discuss non-FD games they enjoy. He is then bombarded by the usual people saying he should stop it, the project is a scam, and everyone involved with it is evil. The new person then has 30 seconds to comply, or else we're falling back on name-calling and other assorted insults. And when he politely asks for some basic common courtesy within minutes he get this:

"Cultists!"
"Religious Apologist!"
"Bad Faith!"
"Trolling!"

Classy guys.

It's not what's happening here though. And just like you, some like to leave out the unconvenient details because it doesn't fit the narration. For whatever reason - trolling or self-delusion I cannot say.
 
I know it can be confusing for some that to hear that their opinion isn't the Ultimate True Opinion that everyone automatically shares or should share. But it does explain quite clearly what is happening here, as it happens here every single time: Someone shows up and says:"Hey, I kinda can like this project!". This, in itself, is not normally a provocative statement in a sub-forum where people discuss non-FD games they enjoy. He is then bombarded by the usual people saying he should stop it, the project is a scam, and everyone involved with it is evil. The new person then has 30 seconds to comply, or else we're falling back on name-calling and other assorted insults. And when he politely asks for some basic common courtesy within minutes he get this:

"Cultists!"
"Religious Apologist!"
"Bad Faith!"
"Trolling!"

Classy guys.
I literally totally don't care about being classy, I'll call a spade a spade.
 
Oh come off it. Do you really want to suggest at any point backers thought or CIG were selling a 10 player PU? From early on they sold ships with bigger crew requirements than that. I have to say, and i'm willing to cop a ban for this, but it appears you are either trolling now or discussing things in bad faith. This is absoloutely pitiful as an argument.

At no point did CIG say anything like "The PU will be limited to just a few players per server." In fact, once they did start talking about numbers they were talking about hundreds or even thousands of players in an instance.

Now, i will agree they didn't call it a MMO. It seems as though they wanted to avoid calling it an MMO, but when you read their marketing materials, it always seemed more because they didn't want the associations that come with typical MMOs and also wanted to position themselves as something more than an MMO... a living breathing universe.

You ain't gonna get a living breathing universe with only 10 people.

Are you really so deseperate to believe that the MMO (or shall we say large scale number of players on a server) wasn't part of the initial pitch, or are you just being completely disingenious?
The general implication was from the beginning that it would be at least, if not larger than, the size of your average, say, Freelancer server. And that game unmodded supports over 100 concurrent players per server.
 
It's not what's happening here though. And just like you, some like to leave out the unconvenient details because it doesn't fit the narration. For whatever reason - trolling or self-delusion I cannot say.

Ah, my bad. I forgot the inconvenient details that make it okay to just hurl insults at people.
How many years is it OK to take $3000 pledges for space chariots that require servers sharing session state without getting two servers to share session state?

Personally? For me $3000 spaceships are silly to begin with, and the progress has been far too slow for my taste. So I spend $0 on it and instead play other games. Legally however they can do this for as many years as they can, and it is up to every individual to determine for themselves if this is what they want to spend their money on.
 
Ah, my bad. I forgot the inconvenient details that make it okay to just hurl insults at people.


Personally? For me $3000 spaceships are silly to begin with, and the progress has been far too slow for my taste. So I spend $0 on it and instead play other games. Legally however they can do this for as many years as they can, and it is up to every individual to determine for themselves if this is what they want to spend their money on.
Legally, fraud is a crime.
 
Oh come off it. Do you really want to suggest at any point backers thought or CIG were selling a 10 player PU?
I've never said that. It's just to illustrate that "persistent universe" doesn't mean "massively persistent universe".

CIG did not use precise terms concerning a massive aspect of the PU before 2015. After 2015 they started using MMO and more recently they said they will attempt to have an unique server. They started to use those terms after 2015 because the plan about the server aspect of the game was rebooted.

I've found the initial concept of CR about his PU.

So the “magic” of Star Citizen’s multiplayer design is how we combine a persistent universe with a more traditional (and easier to implement) temporary multiplayer “battle” instance.
The way it works is that the persistent universe server, which we’re calling the Galaxy Server, keeps track of all players’ assets, group relationships and locations inside the Star Citizen universe. As the Galaxy server isn’t handling any realtime action it can handle our complete player base, which right now would be about 45,000 players, but is designed to be able to scale to millions if need be.

So the Galaxy server was intended just to be a lobby with no action that send you to temporary multiplayer instances with your friends. That's not what they plan to do now. The lobby is gone and the temporary multiplayer instances are gone too. Instead they plan to have an unique server with full rendering from A to Z, full persistence and no loading at all.
The whole server architecture of the 2012 plan was of no use for the actual plan.
That's why I talk about a reboot in 2014/2015.
 
Yeah, that's not going to happen when people employ revisionism and apologism to defend the obvious.
As you want. If you consider that I don't deserve respect, don't except me to respond to you anymore. I will try if the ignore option work in this forum.
 
For real though, Smart is just not a very nice person. Putting it mildly. It was tempting to initially see him as the Good Guy versus Evil Roberts, but they both kinda suck. :/

Ben is cool though.

The problem with Smart and Roberts is one we see a lot with adversaries. At their core they have very similar characters. Grandoise, arrogant and mercurial. I'll grant that Smart has never encouraged people to back one of his projects with 300m+ dollars, but realistically that would never happen anyway. Equally Roberts hasn't spent years stalking people on the internet and becoming better known as a troll than for any of his other professional endeavors.

I do actually have some respect for Smart in that he's kept plowing his own furrow right through his career; equally I was gaming back when Wing Commander was released and it did genuinely move gaming forward at that time, but frankly the days when either of them could lay claim to something resembling the moral high ground are long gone.

Ben does indeed seem fairly cool.
 
I literally totally don't care about being classy, I'll call a spade a spade.

As lomg as youre sure, a lot of times when people call it a spade its actually a shovel.

I've never said that. It's just to illustrate that "persistent universe" doesn't mean "massively persistent universe".

I thought there were no loading screens? You cant have it both ways.

So the Galaxy server was intended just to be a lobby with no action that send you to temporary multiplayer instances with your friends. That's not what they plan to do now. The lobby is gone and the temporary multiplayer instances are gone too

Because it was an impossible paradox as originally described. Now theyve kinda got rid of the paradox but now they have the speed of light to contend with, its just not fast enough so needs a never been done before faster than light networking system. Luckily when they do achieve it they also break the problem of time travel so can go back and release the game in 2014 as originally planned.
 
Or you misunderstand it in your crusade against everything and everyone associated with SC. His argument suggests that the terminology is very broad, which is true. It extends all the way from MMO gaming nirvana down to minecraft-like situations. Need I remind you that FD markets ED explicitly as an MMO, and it is closer to minecraft than a full-blown MMO as well? It doesn't mean that everyone believes it would be like minecraft. It does mean there is a whole range of interpretations, and that inevitably many people will have different interpretations. Heck, even CIG themselves hardly had a consistent view of what it is they mean with it or want they want to actually do.

Honestly mate, the second you start typing you really want to insult some internet stranger so much you are willing to be banned for it should be the second you stop typing and make yourself a nice cup of tea.
At the risk of going off topic, IIRC it took years for Frontier to acknowledge they actually were making an MMO. In addition, while Frontier now acknowledges that they’re making an MMO, they’re making the same mistakes the early pioneers did back in the 90s.

As for the idea that ED is closer to Minecraft than an MMO... that’s just what comes out of the south end of a north facing bull. The initial pitch for Star Citizen, which included private servers, is much closer to Minecraft than ED, which requires you to log into one universal server. Even then, the CIG hosted “persistent universe” was very much understood to be an MMO at the time. To imply anything different is disingenuous.
 
For real though, Smart is just not a very nice person. Putting it mildly. It was tempting to initially see him as the Good Guy versus Evil Roberts, but they both kinda suck. :/
Yep, Derek can come across as the harmless oddball shouting into the void... right up until you realise he's more than willing to cross a bunch of lines as long as it's in the name of Being Right. To be fair that doesn't mean that he's guilty of every heinous crime backers have accused him of - supposedly doxxing someone by pointing at a public IMDb page was a fairly entertaining example - but he has shown fairly terrible judgement and quite concerning actions in enough cases that IMO he's more than warranted being removed from both here and SA. Can't say I've missed him.

So the Galaxy server was intended just to be a lobby with no action that send you to temporary multiplayer instances with your friends. That's not what they plan to do now. The lobby is gone and the temporary multiplayer instances are gone too. Instead they plan to have an unique server with full rendering from A to Z, full persistence and no loading at all.
The whole server architecture of the 2012 plan was of no use for the actual plan.
That's why I talk about a reboot in 2014/2015.
Hm, it's fairly entertaining timing that ED came out right around that time, using a model not dissimilar to that "galaxy server"... Guess it suddenly wasn't good enough for Star Citizen. 😄
So anyway, I suppose it's perfectly reasonable that 5-6 years into this rebooted development, only now are they working on having servers not assume they're wholly authoritative...?
 
I've never said that. It's just to illustrate that "persistent universe" doesn't mean "massively persistent universe".

CIG did not use precise terms concerning a massive aspect of the PU before 2015. After 2015 they started using MMO and more recently they said they will attempt to have an unique server. They started to use those terms after 2015 because the plan about the server aspect of the game was rebooted.

I've found the initial concept of CR about his PU.




So the Galaxy server was intended just to be a lobby with no action that send you to temporary multiplayer instances with your friends. That's not what they plan to do now. The lobby is gone and the temporary multiplayer instances are gone too. Instead they plan to have an unique server with full rendering from A to Z, full persistence and no loading at all.
The whole server architecture of the 2012 plan was of no use for the actual plan.
That's why I talk about a reboot in 2014/2015.

That version has no date on it, bugt got another source for it (kickstarter) which puts it at November 11, 2012.

So you may be very much right that it was one of the first times, probably the first time, that he talked about it.

Looking at the text itself, it looks like he wanted unlimited player numbers on a server. Not 10, not 100, not 1000... everyone together.

In Star Citizen there is going to be one persistent universe server that everyone exists on. So you will never be separated from your friends, and if you want you’ll be able to join up and adventure together, you can.

Now, he does temper this a bit with this...

So the “magic” of Star Citizen’s multiplayer design is how we combine a persistent universe with a more traditional (and easier to implement) temporary multiplayer “battle” instance.

In short, right after bad mouthing other games for using shards and instances, he goes on to talk about doing the same.

However, again, its clear he wanted unlimited people on the same "server", meaning even from this we see he is talking about MMO level numbers (or greater!).

In many ways, what he describes is a lot like how ED does it. Theoretically unlimited number of players in the same game universe, you'll just never seen everyone at the same time even if they congregate.

So, once again, nothing in that which suggests limited player numbers, quite the opposite. He talks about their current playerbase of 45,000 people all playing together. That not MMO territory yet?

I think you badly misunderstand (or are attempting to misrepresent) what he was talking about and what you suggest would not have got backers to open their wallets like they did.

"Hey guys, we are going to do this amazing open world space games, but you'll only join different areas via a lobby. No dynamic matchmaking with friends and enemies!"

Yeah, no, that would not have got people excited.

You suggest fragmentation via a lobby, CR said:

One thing I don’t like about most MMO structures is the fragmentation of the player base between these “shards”. If you had joined much later than a friend of yours, there may not be room on his world instance anymore and you have to join another parallel one and so cannot play together.

CR said nothing here about a lobby system.

Really, the more i read, the more it sounds like how ED was going to be originally, before they added supercruise to their plans. Discrete jumps with matchmaking to see who you ended up with. Instead of modes you would have a PvP slider instead to affect matchmaking.

But regardless, everyone in the same gameworld, same as ED.

What has changed since then appears to be the swtich from waypoint jumps to QT (like ED changed from discrete jumps to supercruise) and the removal of the PvP slider idea.

So, once again, i submit that an MMO like game was always part of the plan, and CR's own words from 2012 seem to back that up.
 
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