Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
One player's "interesting" may well be another player's "ridiculously gamey".
Hotspots should be rerolled periodically
- Thread starter sidereal6
- Start date
Good thing ED's a game then
No. It makes zero sense. Even if our civilisation were all miners by profession, every single person, we would still not be able to deplete or even materially affect the quantity of deposits in ONE hotspot in our lifetimes.
I also assume you are new, because they do shuffle the Hotspots. It's happened once so far. Doing this prevents people mapping rings, which is insane and insulting to those that take the time to do so. As for those saying game beats realism, sure, but only where realism would not be fun or be inappropriate, this is not one of those cases.
Hotspots should be permanent, so should their yield, and so should their state (pristine, depleted, etc).
I also assume you are new, because they do shuffle the Hotspots. It's happened once so far. Doing this prevents people mapping rings, which is insane and insulting to those that take the time to do so. As for those saying game beats realism, sure, but only where realism would not be fun or be inappropriate, this is not one of those cases.
Hotspots should be permanent, so should their yield, and so should their state (pristine, depleted, etc).
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Even better that it's not a ridiculous game.Good thing ED's a game then
Yea, but they are pretty proud with the realistic representation of the Galaxy.. And a realtime clock.
While in Planet Zoo, for example, the game features an accelerated time component
In that case, the value of all the high-end minerals should be virtually nothing, since they're readily available and have far lower demand than most other commodities.
I mean, if having a realistic universe is so important?
It is nothing now.
The 7500 tons of LTD i purchased at 1 million per ton are the living proof
on a slightly more serious note, the billions of humans seem to eat precious materials like candy - hence there is always demand, not not as much as i wish
This is "dark forest" theory.
1. Any life grows infinite and consumes infinite.
2. However resources which life can take are huge but finite (as light speed is limited).
This means if you see anywhere new alien life - best way you can do - destroy it immediately.
...best brains argue about that now :/
But game market fits it - humans consume VO as candies.
1. Any life grows infinite and consumes infinite.
2. However resources which life can take are huge but finite (as light speed is limited).
This means if you see anywhere new alien life - best way you can do - destroy it immediately.
...best brains argue about that now :/
But game market fits it - humans consume VO as candies.
Eh? We have more oil, diamonds and gold on this planet than we can use in our lifetime, does that make it worthless? Or did I misunderstand what you're trying to say...
I hope you're not suggesting that a few billion people can mine a few quintoquadrillion tons of ore in a single lifetime and that there should be some dangerof the resource running out, cos that is practically, impossible, unrealistic, and does not in any universe I can imagine, make the game more fun.
No, I see it as far more fun if I can map a hotspot that I like and then use it reliably. Realistic and rewarding. Double kill.
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Rare isn't really rare in this game. When players are reliably filling up their entire cargo holds with the most valuable minerals and easily able to fill up station demands that are always replenishing to a minimum value and keeping the maximum price, something is unbalanced.
In reality stuff like platinum takes not only a lot of normal rocks to get refined into a noticeable chunk, but a very long process to refine it. However it feels like the mining gameplay is still designed around our very limited cargo holds and with no external storage like FCs or what a fully dedicated hauling ship would really carry compared to one not optimized for cargo.
In reality stuff like platinum takes not only a lot of normal rocks to get refined into a noticeable chunk, but a very long process to refine it. However it feels like the mining gameplay is still designed around our very limited cargo holds and with no external storage like FCs or what a fully dedicated hauling ship would really carry compared to one not optimized for cargo.
You couldn't possibly know that as fact unless you know how much materials where there (in a hotspot) in the first place. If the hotspot only had 1,000,000 or even a billion tonnes of material then our civilisation of all miners could deplete it in an instant.
Is this really so hard for people to understand?? The asteroids are orbiting the planet independently. Are you still with me? Have I lost you yet?
Sometimes, asteroids with high concentrations of some material will line up, just like sometimes Jupiter and Saturn line up. Do you understand? Are you still following this?
The asteroids orbit the planet very quickly - on the order of a few hours. Thus, hotspots should appear and disappear frequently. That would be realistic.
Nope. I didn't forget anything. Everything I said is valid. You just aren't understanding it.
"read info about rings. It's numbers with like 20 zeroes" - sigh the AGE of the ring is on the order of billions of years. That is irrelevant to what I'm proposing. What I propose depends only on the orbital period of the rings.
How are people not following this??
I didn't suggest that materials "magically appear or disappear" - I said that a hotspot is when the orbits of many high-concentration asteroids (asteroids which are there all the time) just happen to line up - just like how Saturn and Jupiter sometimes line up.
Can someone please help me understand how I could have communicated this better? It's really frustrating when everyone who thinks they disagree with me doesn't even understand the thing they're disagreeing with. It's really frustrating when I talk about how the orbits of asteroids (which are in the rings the whole time) should occasionally line up and create a temporary hotspot, and people like the guy I quoted above IMAGINE that I said "materials magically appear and disappear" - he made that up. I didn't say it or imply it. How does this happen?
Do you have working math model which proves?
For me - hotspots are result of such aligning. They aligned as you say and stick to this steady config for long.
Given the size of the hotspots, the unimaginable size, even the small ones, if there were not quintoquadrillions (I really love that number
) of tons, they would not be designated a worthwhile mining spot. Given the number of bodies out there, our hotspots are a very rare thing. It's reasonable to assume that only the very best sites are designated hotspots.As I understand (I am no expert in this field) the orbits of asteroids in a ring system are relative to each other and gravity. If they move so significantly as to change the position of hotspots from their relative orbit then what's stopping them from just floating off into space. I just can't see what you're proposing.
All I can see with your proposal is that there would be no need with hotspots in the first place.
Ring systems aren't permanent features, in fact for the life of even a planet they are fairly short lived, around the same length of time dinosaurs existed on the earth. Even Saturn's rings, which are being replenished somewhat by volcanic action from some of it's moons, are probably only between 100m and 300m years old and may be gone in another 50m or 100m years.
Oh yes, this;
I nearly whoopsied on my keyboard, this is manifestly and demonstrably false, around a given sized planet with a given gravity we can predict exactly how long it will take a body of any size to orbit at a given distance from the surface.
I don't think we even need a math model for this, it's fairly straightforward orbital mechanics, we humans do it all the time when we send satellites up. Here's a fairly simple page describing how to calculate the orbital speed of an object around a body of any given mass. Close objects will indeed orbit in a matter of hours, but they are also usually in unstable orbits due to collision with the tenuous outer atmosphere which for most bodies extend well beyond what we normally think of the edge of an atmosphere, so the inner edges of rings don't tend to get that close to the planet anyway.
www.physicsclassroom.com
But it's all pretty much irrelevant given that ED's ring systems don't even pretend to model classic physics in any way, shape or form.
Oh yes, this;
I nearly whoopsied on my keyboard, this is manifestly and demonstrably false, around a given sized planet with a given gravity we can predict exactly how long it will take a body of any size to orbit at a given distance from the surface.
I don't think we even need a math model for this, it's fairly straightforward orbital mechanics, we humans do it all the time when we send satellites up. Here's a fairly simple page describing how to calculate the orbital speed of an object around a body of any given mass. Close objects will indeed orbit in a matter of hours, but they are also usually in unstable orbits due to collision with the tenuous outer atmosphere which for most bodies extend well beyond what we normally think of the edge of an atmosphere, so the inner edges of rings don't tend to get that close to the planet anyway.
Mathematics of Satellite Motion
Because most satellites, including planets and moons, travel along paths that can be approximated as circular paths, their motion can be described by circular motion equations. By combining such equations with the mathematics of universal gravitation, a host of mathematical equations can be...
But it's all pretty much irrelevant given that ED's ring systems don't even pretend to model classic physics in any way, shape or form.
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Not really exact. In rings some other effects happen. Uranus & Saturn rings are examples of "no easy explain". For example, wave equations may work there, as all that ring together works as whole system and not single rock.
But any way, game has too simple modeling to deep in such. And fast spots moves is just not proper.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
A link to a relevant astronomical observation relating to relative speeds of asteroids within rings would go a long way to informing the discussion. Without one, any assumptions relating to relative movements of asteroids within established rings are just that - assumptions.
nope. It is absolutely 100% true. The orbital period for an asteroid in a ring around a gas giant is on the order of a few hours.
The rings are by definition within the roche limit (do you even know what that is?) and gas giants are quite massive. The orbital speed is thus always pretty fast. The orbital period is thus on the order of a few hours. To take a real world example, the the Cassini Division in Saturn's rings extends from 117,580 km to 122,170 km. The orbital period for an object at that range is 4.22 hours.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roche_limit
Everything I've said in this thread has been true.
What I said is true. Asteroids in any (actual, real) ring around any gas giant will have orbital periods on the order of a few hours. I am 100% right about this.
Even the inner moons of (actual, real) gas giants have orbital periods on the order of a few hours, and they are outside the roche limit, where a ring couldn't exist.
I know what I'm talking about, and I'm right in everything I've said.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Arguably there's effectively an infinite supply of every element, mineral, etc. - it's just a matter of how far we need to travel to get it. With the advent of Carriers, nowhere in the galaxy is more than about 48 hours away.