Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

ECity

ECity
Silaz said:
...and as far as I know there are not much more than one or two star systems to explore right now in the game 'universe'.
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Yes, there is one incomplete star system at the moment.
3. Another Youtuber estimates that the game may need a further 8 - 10 years to be complete enough to release
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Yes, that is the Noobifier, who is a backer that supports the game, although he is critical of it.
 

Tippis

Tippis
Silaz said:
There are so many other space sim games out there right now that cost the same or even less than a SC starter package and who knows where the space sim genre will have got to in ten years. That's enough time for several major game development cycles to take place. Earlier I worried that there would be performance issues with the high-fi graphics, now I'm pretty sure that SC will run on next gen hardware just fine, but the software is going to be yesterdays technology by that time, having been superceeded by dozens of future titles with far better gameplay mechanics and available at far less cost to the player.

What more to say? They've created some very desirable things, and I've got to admit, I really do want that Carrack. But I want to keep my one thousand dollars more than spend it on a virtual exploration starship with no stars to fly it to.
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Yeah, there's almost as if there is a reason why you don't start developing software with the bits that need to be the most up-to-date to stand out against all the competition; as if you do those at the end, and instead being with the fundamentals that require a lot fewer people with a more focused skill-set.

The problem they're facing by starting with the end bits and ignoring the start for a decade is that, already now, the whole thing is starting to look outdated. Stuff that could have been impressive and fresh are now standard plug-ins and baseline features of any contemporary game engine, available too all and sundry. All while the underlying functionality, which could have been long-term impressive if they had chosen to put even a fraction of their effort into it, is a shambles of incomplete, half-functioning, ill-conceived, and — for the most part — just outright missing pieces that have yet to be figured out, scoped out, or even designed.

For more than a decade, EVE Online was — and to some extent still is — an MMO marvel in terms of what it could deliver, not because of something as fleeting as graphics (even if those were occasionally updated to gorgeous levels from a contemporary perspective) but because a dozen drunken louts in a loft sat down and invented some pretty darn spectacular solutions to hard networking problems. That, and securing some funding through a separate and wholly unrelated product, was the two key hurdles that the guys in the loft had to overcome. At no point did Chris et al. sit down to figure out what their main problem was, and thus, here we are.
 

Tifu

Tifu
Tippis said:
The problem they're facing by starting with the end bits and ignoring the start for a decade is that, already now, the whole thing is starting to look outdated. Stuff that could have been impressive and fresh are now standard plug-ins and baseline features of any contemporary game engine, available too all and sundry.
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Newer scifi/space sim games with cutting edge graphics engines under them are definitely going to overtake SC in the kind of fidelity that's the remaining strong selling point for CR's baby.

CIG just took too long, sadly.
 

Silaz

Silaz
Tippis said:
Yeah, there's almost as if there is a reason why you don't start developing software with the bits that need to be the most up-to-date to stand out against all the competition; as if you do those at the end, and instead being with the fundamentals that require a lot fewer people with a more focused skill-set.

The problem they're facing by starting with the end bits and ignoring the start for a decade is that, already now, the whole thing is starting to look outdated. Stuff that could have been impressive and fresh are now standard plug-ins and baseline features of any contemporary game engine, available too all and sundry. All while the underlying functionality, which could have been long-term impressive if they had chosen to put even a fraction of their effort into it, is a shambles of incomplete, half-functioning, ill-conceived, and — for the most part — just outright missing pieces that have yet to be figured out, scoped out, or even designed.

For more than a decade, EVE Online was — and to some extent still is — an MMO marvel in terms of what it could deliver, not because of something as fleeting as graphics (even if those were occasionally updated to gorgeous levels from a contemporary perspective) but because a dozen drunken louts in a loft sat down and invented some pretty darn spectacular solutions to hard networking problems. That, and securing some funding through a separate and wholly unrelated product, was the two key hurdles that the guys in the loft had to overcome. At no point did Chris et al. sit down to figure out what their main problem was, and thus, here we are.
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I think if we are comparing DB's Elite Dangerous to CR's Star Citizen - one had a business plan and the other did not, or rather, soon abandoned it when he realised there was an easier way to make money as he got carried away with his kickstarters runaway success. Thing is, Roberts can't run away with the money and his honey to Mexico. He's locked in on a one way never ending path now in full public view. He and his cabal of criminal coders have nowhere to hide. I would call in the FBI if I were the president.
 
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Asp Explorer

Asp Explorer
Silaz said:
He and his cabal of criminal coders have nowhere to hide. I would call in the FBI if I were the president.
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It's even worse (or better, depending on how you look at it) than that.

He has to wake up every morning, knowing that he's going to wave hands and waffle, send emails and maybe make a video or two, inspect the latest fashion jpeg and give a go-no-go for the latest magical tech that the pipeline delivered, after already having claimed to have invented and implemented said magical tech years ago, nod sagely at the latest industry happenings and perhaps even offer a bit of advice for the development n00bs out there.

All the while releasing zero product.
 

metatheurgist

metatheurgist
We already know the cashflow failed - why is that even a question? By their own books they ran out of money in 2018. If it wasn't for the Calder "marketing" investment this project would already be in the ground. Good luck conning another Calder into throwing more cash into the dumpster. It's just a matter of time now, and we all know what the last freefly brought in.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Silaz said:
1. The Carrack costs over $1000 and it's probably going to take thousands of hours to grind for it in game. Much longer than it did for me to grind for my first Anaconda during the early days of ED.
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Its an interesting condundrum CIG have caused themselves.

If it takes too long to get ships, the non-whales will complain loudly and it will reinforce the view that ship sales were pay to win. But if they can be got too quickly, the whales will cry that their investments were worthless, that CIG cheated them. (yeah, they like to say they do it to support CIG, but we all know its all because of the ships so they get to flex on others who can't afford them).

It also has implications for multicrew. If hard, then to get on the big ships, you're going to have to be subservient to a whale. If easy, there are going to be more cap ships flying around than small ships (more performance strain as well). If CIG implement NPC crews, you're going to have lots of people flying cap ships populated by NPCs instead of players.

Its a problem of their own making though. Instead of focusing on delivering the BDSSE at a reasonable scale, getting to launch, and then using funding from game sales and cosmetics, perhaps subscriptions (CR did say no subscriptions though) then they could have largely avoided this issue, and then gone on to expand the game further. Instead they had no coherent development plan, no clue how to deliver on a lot of the tech they would need for the bigger scope, and are working under the assumption they have infinite time and money to do what they want to do.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
ECity said:
Alpha 3.10 Postmortem

robertsspaceindustries.com

Alpha 3.10 Postmortem - Roberts Space Industries | Follow the development of Star Citizen and Squadron 42

Roberts Space Industries is the official go-to website for all news about Star Citizen and Squadron 42. It also hosts the online store for game items and merch, as well as all the community tools used by our fans.
robertsspaceindustries.com
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One of the persistent questions we had during development was, “Why should I have a player in my turret when it would be more effective for them to bring along a second ship?” With Alpha 3.10, we aimed to answer that once and for all. With a slew of improvements and a heavily rewritten codebase, turrets are now an extremely lethal option when manned and provide a force multiplier for the ship.
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YOU WILL MULTICREW! We didn't spend all this time and effort for people to go flying their own ships! Multicrew and your ship will punch above its weight! Also, forget fixed weapons! Turrets are where the meta is now guys!
 

sovapid

sovapid
Agony_Aunt said:
Its an interesting condundrum CIG have caused themselves.

If it takes too long to get ships, the non-whales will complain loudly and it will reinforce the view that ship sales were pay to win. But if they can be got too quickly, the whales will cry that their investments were worthless, that CIG cheated them. (yeah, they like to say they do it to support CIG, but we all know its all because of the ships so they get to flex on others who can't afford them).
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Carrack is $600. Plus whatever taxes you have.

qno9zTD.png


robertsspaceindustries.com

Ships - Roberts Space Industries | Follow the development of Star Citizen and Squadron 42

Roberts Space Industries is the official go-to website for all news about Star Citizen and Squadron 42. It also hosts the online store for game items and merch, as well as all the community tools used by our fans.
robertsspaceindustries.com



Carrack is available in game for 26,657,500 credits.

scfocus.org

Star Citizen Alpha 4.1 Ship Sales & Rental Prices

Star Citizen Alpha 4.1 Price and Locations of Ships for Sale and For Rent in game. Browse by location from where the ships are sold and rented.
scfocus.org scfocus.org

Conservatively should be able to get it in 530 hours of pure grinding. Probably closer to 250.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
sovapid said:
Carrack is $600. Plus whatever taxes you have.

qno9zTD.png


robertsspaceindustries.com

Ships - Roberts Space Industries | Follow the development of Star Citizen and Squadron 42

Roberts Space Industries is the official go-to website for all news about Star Citizen and Squadron 42. It also hosts the online store for game items and merch, as well as all the community tools used by our fans.
robertsspaceindustries.com



Carrack is available in game for 26,657,500 credits.

scfocus.org

Star Citizen Alpha 4.1 Ship Sales & Rental Prices

Star Citizen Alpha 4.1 Price and Locations of Ships for Sale and For Rent in game. Browse by location from where the ships are sold and rented.
scfocus.org scfocus.org

Conservatively should be able to get it in 530 hours of pure grinding. Probably closer to 250.
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We will have to see how things are on release.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Why do people give tech-debt so much significance? It probably is already factored in because it is an already well known thing that occurs and needs to be done. You all make it sound like it is this hidden thing that nobody knows about but will cost CIG lots of time.

I actually start to suspect that people dont even know what tech debt is because it is getting thrown around left and right. I even heard some people saying that tech debt was CIG needing additional tech... thats just not what it is at all. Tech debt is also known as code debt. When a software system evolves and some code parts dont, then that might result in old code that needs to be revisited again because if you dont then you do more workarounds to build features around that old code, trapping yourself more and more in code that could be streamlined much better. Thats just what happens. That can be countered with planning of the software systems and implementing the features that you want right from the get go (and which I consider CIG doing and why it is taking as long as it does) as well as regular evaluations on how to proceed and if small reworks would be beneficial for a new feature.

I am sure that they can work on most features internally in parallel already. Of course, thats different from having a feature go live, then all the depending features need to be online as well. But if you are developing something you dont need the real or final depending feature to already test or implement some stuff already. Afterall, they are already working on server meshing so they can clearly do that even without iCache being live. I am sure they are using the iCache database that they already have and let it run locally to be able to test some stuff for server meshing (but that depends if the featureset they are working on for server meshing even requires the iCache database or not).
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Technical debt eh?

Technical debt - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

That wiki page could have been written for CIG.

But while the term is often incorrectly used to mean stuff promised but not yet delivered on, AFIAK, we don't have a good phrase for that, so tech debt can work as a stand in for it.

Anyway, i'd love to get the quoted poster to say how long they think it will take to deliver on everything, since they seem so confident. Then do a remindme on it.
 

Silaz

Silaz
sovapid said:
Carrack is $600. Plus whatever taxes you have.

qno9zTD.png


robertsspaceindustries.com

Ships - Roberts Space Industries | Follow the development of Star Citizen and Squadron 42

Roberts Space Industries is the official go-to website for all news about Star Citizen and Squadron 42. It also hosts the online store for game items and merch, as well as all the community tools used by our fans.
robertsspaceindustries.com



Carrack is available in game for 26,657,500 credits.

scfocus.org

Star Citizen Alpha 4.1 Ship Sales & Rental Prices

Star Citizen Alpha 4.1 Price and Locations of Ships for Sale and For Rent in game. Browse by location from where the ships are sold and rented.
scfocus.org scfocus.org

Conservatively should be able to get it in 530 hours of pure grinding. Probably closer to 250.
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Sorry it's $1,320 including a turtle. That was the page I looked at. Didn't notice the turtle as well: The perfect exploration pack, with a turtle lying on it's back!
 

Tippis

Tippis
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