Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Yes. And building solid tools to control all those metrics when you work with contractors is one way to avoid those problems. And that's what CIG do since several years. The Illfonic fail should have taught them the hard way how to work with contractors.

Well, quite, although I'm not sure how much I trust CIG tbh.
 
That is the fabeled elevator panel rework? The thing that took them 6 months to do????
No.

I always used to like the fact you can walk around the stations in SC, but it seems in 3.11 you now have to use elevators to get around more? Do they still kill you?
They rarely kill you now. The station are bigger with deck zone in 3.11, having all zones one behind the other would make travel in station too long. With elevators you go directly where you need to go.
 
Yes. And building solid tools to control all those metrics when you work with contractors is one way to avoid those problems. And that's what CIG do since several years. The Illfonic fail should have taught them the hard way how to work with contractors.


Dear friend, you teach me nothing about those laws (Brooks, Hofstadter, Peter's principle, etc). I started to code 35 years ago, hard to miss them when you are a coder. The Brooks law is about late project, not overdue projects that doesn't care about deadlines (talking for SC only). Re-read the law.

Parallelization works when the tools are solid and the teams are competent. A simple example : the tool (minecraft) + the guideline (Game of Throne documentation) + hundred people and you get WesterosCraft.

From what you say, then you should know all the tools in the world won't help if you don't have clearly communicated requirements. The whole Ilfonic debacle happened because nobody thought to inform ilfonic about what scale they should be making objects.

I can load up Unity or whatever, make a 3D model for another person's game, but if the scale is wrong, then it won't go in game.

With your 35 years of experience, this should be obvious to you. Tools are useful and if CIG has the tools, then so the do the contractors, and again, you yourself said you have no proof that CIG are increasing the number of people working with those tools, so there is nothing to suggest things will speed up.

What is key for working with these contractors is communications. That does not include wavy hands.
 
Peter's principle,

I often think the entire internet and forums are full of self-employed Peters.

Including me :)

They rarely kill you now. The station are bigger with deck zone in 3.11, having all the zones one behind the other would make travel in station too long. With elevators you go directly where you need to go.

You just described why we have loading screens :) Except most of them dont kill you, even rarely. For gods sake, make the elevator the loading screen and this Peter thinks 99% of the actual problem is solved, no need to reimagine the atom and build up. Ive seen loading screens where I can run around in the screen, I really dont see the difference, would you?
 
From what you say, then you should know all the tools in the world won't help if you don't have clearly communicated requirements.
I agree with you on all you say.
The main difference between us is that you see CIG as a completely incompetent company which is unable to learn from its mistakes. I do not.
Another difference is I suspect CIG of making a game engine instead of a making a game. But I have no proof of that too.
 
Must be nice to have such gullible customers. Despite nearly a decade's worth of actions proving otherwise, CIG's competence to the task at hand is not even in question.

Must be the same type of customers that believe hard drive manufacturers that sell.. enterprise level.. hard drives with.. special.. rubber mounting screws that reduce vibrations and extend the life of the hard drive, all for a low-low 200% markup over the leading brand. Or the custom ethernet cable manufacturers that sell directional cables made out of gold* so that bits know which way to go and not get lost in transit.

Hard to believe not trolling at this point.

*Nothing to see here.
 
Personally, I've never been killed by elevator. I've, from time to time, elevator's doors refusing to open.

this is what gets me. You speak often in CIGs defense and admit to not having any first-hand experience in reported issues. Like the elevators which like you say never killed you. Still you said beforehand that "elevators only kill you rarely anymore"...where does that come from because you never had the issue before. Do you simply take the reports of "often" and combine it with your "never" and the result is "rarely"?

Or do you have a source of info that has less positive experiences then you do with the game which you chose to believe? Its just one of the things that make me go "???" when you make statements. "Backer since 2013" and "coding for 35 years" are others but I m sharing more then I should I guess. Just wanted to make sure to make clear that the fact that I disagree with you on most things regarding SC has nothing to do with me liking you or not but both our perception seems to be radically different even tho we react the same way to abuse and lies.
 
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Yes. And building solid tools to control all those metrics when you work with contractors is one way to avoid those problems. And that's what CIG do since several years. The Illfonic fail should have taught them the hard way how to work with contractors.


Dear friend, you teach me nothing about those laws (Brooks, Hofstadter, Peter's principle, etc). I started to code 35 years ago, hard to miss them when you are a coder. The Brooks law is about late project, not overdue projects that doesn't care about deadlines (talking for SC only). Re-read the law.

Parallelization works when the tools are solid and the teams are competent. A simple example : the tool (minecraft) + the guideline (Game of Throne documentation) + hundred people and you get WesterosCraft.
We all started around that time. Software distributions wasnt at its peak and the magazines were full of listings.
Had you looked up from your listing you might had noticed that the 'tool' is neither well-documented (Tyler Unwit is sill waiting excitedly for the new roadmap) nor 'solid'.
 
this is what gets me. You speak often in CIGs defense and admit to not having any first-hand experience in reported issues. Like the elevators which like you say never killed you. Still you said beforehand that "elevators only kill you rarely anymore"...where does that come from because you never had the issue before. Do you simply take the reports of "often" and combine it with your "never" and the result is "rarely"?
It may come down as personal luck. I mean there has been times when ED had (or still has) some bugs, and forums are full of irritated people, and I did not encounter said bugs at all. Perhaps you need certain conditions to activate such buggy behauviour, but player gets lucky and such conditions do not arise.
 
I agree with you on all you say.

Well, that's pretty boring. How are we meant to argue? :D

The main difference between us is that you see CIG as a completely incompetent company which is unable to learn from its mistakes. I do not.
Another difference is I suspect CIG of making a game engine instead of a making a game. But I have no proof of that too.

Not so much the whole company. Just the giant thumb at the top. Everthing devolves from him. Doesn't matter how good the rest of the company is. Its been mentioned before (based on CR's own words as well as testimonies from others) that he doesn't like people who tell him no, he gets rid of them, and his management style is "management by decree". This will always result in a company where management are all "yes men" with nobody telling the boss when he's having bad ideas. Nobody is perfect, and you always need people who will tell you that something can't or shouldn't be done. With backers absolving CR of any responsibility (not that he needs it, he has absolved himself), it does not lend itself to having confidence in CIG being able to deliver.

It will also lead to a culture of blame, since nobody wants to give the boss the bad news, so people will always find excuses or blame others for failure. It can't be the bosses failure! You can't say that! You'll get fired! But it can't be your failure either! You need to find someone or something else to blame!

As for learning from his mistakes, history suggests he can't. He's got a long history of overpromising, going over deadlines and budgets, while underdelivering. The 8 years so far on Star Citizen reinforces the view that he hasn't learnt a thing, despite him saying at different times (after Strike Commander, after Freelancer) that he had learned his lessons and would do it better next time. But here we are, massive claims of what will be, while burning through cash and time like they are without limit.

As for the making a game engine, that's pure guff. Of course they are making an engine, they need an engine capable of what they want to do to make the game. Maybe you are implying their focus is on making an engine they can licence out to others or use for other games they will create. Ok, nothing unusual there, except they might have problems with licencing the engine, since they would need the rights to do that from Crytek/Amazon.

Personally I don't think CR has given any thought as to what they would do with the engine after SC. By the time SC is finished CR will be well into retirement.
 
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It may come down as personal luck. I mean there has been times when ED had (or still has) some bugs, and forums are full of irritated people, and I did not encounter said bugs at all. Perhaps you need certain conditions to activate such buggy behauviour, but player gets lucky and such conditions do not arise.

No I get that, often times if you enjoy a game or not comes down to your internet connection, your rig or just picking a "good server". So some people saying "I ve never had this issue" and others saying "I m always crashing and gitching out" doesnt mean that one of them is lying. It could very well be different for both of them. But the example I gave quotes him with never having the issue himself while also acknowledging that elevators only kill rarely anymore which I would take as having inside information or a source that would allow me to make such a statement. I wonder what his source is and I was asking him to share. Is it just a select group of friends that he trust more then other random backers/users or is it some kind of statistic unknown to me or others?
 
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