Should materials be buyable with cr

...DWEs...

Well, I'm happy to say I made a little bit more on the DW2 Expedition... 😏

One hour for me on average is probably about, oh, maybe 500K.. 🤷‍♂️ I haven't really been keeping track.

Anyway, I don't think the meta should dictate the game; I think the game and proper game design should help to dictate the meta. Otherwise you're just chasing your tail around, really. But then, maybe that's fun for some people. Who am I to judge? I wouldn't mind some other options though.
 
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That's the thing.

Basically, asking for anything in the game to be purchaseable for credits begs the question of whether it's quicker to obtain the required thing by the intended method or go mining and buy the required thing with (some of) the credits you earn.

Personally, I'd say the best metric FDev could use to define how "valuable" things are is how long it takes to obtain them.
If they applied that to the value of G5 mat's You'd probably be looking at 1 hour = Cr200m in mining and 1 hour = 10 DWEs (by the intended method) therefore each DWE should cost around Cr20m! :eek:
Yup... on that front, I'm all for a general rebalance of how the various materials and data are obtained. Still make it so a diversity of activities are needed to get all the different ones, but these issues where, for example, some BGS conditions drown out the availability of others, need to be addressed to provide a bit more certainty around your chances of finding particular sorts when pursuing the correct conditions.

But getting that rebalance right? Shhh, don't remind people like the OP that with your logic all the high end minerals should be worth less than water, completely sinking any validity of threads like this.
 
You're right.

You're only going to be using DWE's for G5 FSD mod's, though, so you shouldn't ever need 100 at a time.
A 10 minute visit to the Jameson site, followed by a hop to Ray Gateway, in Diaguandri, to trade for DWEs will get your new ship straight to G5, which has got to be better than spending an hour, or more, haunting famine distribution sites or whatever.
I have a lot of ships, and without a loadout system, switching modules between them every time is a huge pain. So, I engineer the core internals of each individually. It isn't a place you just happen upon, either. Pharmaceutical isolators are also a nightmare to find, and can only be found by actively looking for them.
 
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Pharmaceutical isolators are also a nightmare to find, and can only be found by actively looking for them.
They also fall off anacondas and T10s which I see once in a while when I'm bounty hunting and not looking for them. Granted not a great way to get them if you're busting to G5 20 ships with DDs.

Edit: Speak of the Devil...
pisad.jpg
 
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Materials can be quite the pain to obtain, from blowing up ships for manufactured materials that somehow still work to driving around a planet all day looking for raw materials.

If we were able to buy these materials then there would be less of a grind and it means more people would be able to participate in pvp etc.

Your thoughts

Love to be able to buy them, sadly not an option, but really you have to dig into the reason most people want to buy materials.

the main reason for me is because i cant get those materials through any gameplay that i enjoy, whereas credits ares universal in the terms of gameplay, i can do the thing i enjoy and then transfer it into the materials i need.

what we have currently is a mechanic where i have to spend an hour doing something i detest, and loathe in order to get back to the stuff i enjoy, it would be infinity better if we could get rewarded the materials we needed via the gameplay we enjoyed.

therefore there are two answers really, materials available through gameplay ppl enjoy and then use the mat traders (who's rates are not so terrible if you can get some high grade stuff in the same category, but a disgusting rip off if your cross trading category & tiers) or available via universal means i.e credits.

im sure combat folk feel the same, as my pockets are filled with polonium and "raw" materials etc, but manufactured materials & data materials... im skint equally if we could trade with other CMDRs it would be nice too and also solve the problem, and is probably the only worthy and palatable solution which might work for everyone? i.e ill trade you raw mats for manufactured, because i dont mind gathering raw materials i enjoy it.

and the worse bit about manufactured materials is usually when i actually want to do combat, because i hate the mechanic of killing something and then pausing for 30 seconds to hoover everything up, meanwhile the rest of the wing im killing is still trying to get through my 13kmj mat hoovers shields while turrets kill them for me.... its not even the style of combat i want! mat hoovering is basically sitting in a tank and hoovering, its lame but the drop rate is so terrible it's the only bearable way (kill lots and selectively hoover what you need)
 
1000% agree!
The monetary economy ED has been so broken though mining it 'buying mats' would further make progress meaningless. At the moment Mats re the real currency. You want an upgrade?, you should not be able to blow up a couple of rocks and have the upgrade handed to you on a plate.

But you already can anyway.

Every material type has a fast and efficient way to farm G5s, and those can be converted in the materials trader.
 
What point is there in having a currency when you can't buy things with it, that just makes the credits problem worse. (I don't think it's that big of a problem myself, but I'm a fairly new returning player and not someone that has been hoarding credits for the past 5 years)

With odyssey around the corner they are bound to be adding even more material types for different upgrades. (which I really hope they don't)
At this rate they should just rebrand credits and stick them in the materials menu.
 
1000% agree!
The monetary economy ED has been so broken though mining it 'buying mats' would further make progress meaningless. At the moment Mats re the real currency. You want an upgrade?, you should not be able to blow up a couple of rocks and have the upgrade handed to you on a plate.

Ah yes, the real currency that you can keep resetting the instance to farm over and over again. At least asteroids have a respawn timer you can't bypass.
 
But getting that rebalance right? Shhh, don't remind people like the OP that with your logic all the high end minerals should be worth less than water, completely sinking any validity of threads like this.
Not once did i mention what the price of these materials should be, i believe odyssey is bringing a new currency to use for buying your space suit and guns, maybe that currency could be used to buy materials.
 
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Not once did i mention what the price of these materials should be, i believe odyssey is bringing a new currency to use for buying your space suit and guns, maybe that currency could be used to buy materials.
Nope, but plenty of people have.

Whether it's the current [1] in game price of 400k, 10m like others have quoted, or something ridiculous like 1b per unit.... frankly you don't need to quote a price for this to be a dumb idea. It's infeasible regardless of price point without first fixing the economy, which starts by nerfing a whole bunch of broken credit spinners like mining and massacre stacking first, and knocking FCs down to 1b, maybe 2b.

Tl;dr buying materials makes zero sense in the current economy setup.

But there's already plenty of easy ways to get mats (except maybe raw) which don't require prostrating yourself before the altar of idiotic relog gameplay. Buying materials is a solution in search of a problem, but damn if it won't create a bunch of problems along the way.

Even if the Odyssey "currency" can buy these, it's just a case of whatever the best meta for that is, and if it outstrips normal collection rate, people will just do Odyssey activities... if it doesn't, people won't do Odyssey, and just do normal collection. Though I'll note your OP cites buying "for credits" which is not the Odyssey currency.

[1] for G5 materials, in this case.
 
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Nope, but plenty of people have.

Whether it's the current [1] in game price of 400k, 10m like others have quoted, or something ridiculous like 1b per unit.... frankly you don't need to quote a price for this to be a dumb idea. It's infeasible regardless of price point without first fixing the economy, which starts by nerfing a whole bunch of broken credit spinners like mining and massacre stacking first, and knocking FCs down to 1b, maybe 2b.

Tl;dr buying materials makes zero sense in the current economy setup.

But there's already plenty of easy ways to get mats (except maybe raw) which don't require prostrating yourself before the altar of idiotic relog gameplay. Buying materials is a solution in search of a problem, but damn if it won't create a bunch of problems along the way.

Even if the Odyssey "currency" can buy these, it's just a case of whatever the best meta for that is, and if it outstrips normal collection rate, people will just do Odyssey activities... if it doesn't, people won't do Odyssey, and just do normal collection. Though I'll note your OP cites buying "for credits" which is not the Odyssey currency.

[1] for G5 materials, in this case.
Well ideas change, yes i originally said credits but odyssey currency could be the solution but yes we would need to see how it would look.
 
maybe that currency could be used to buy materials.

nice try :) that would put horizons content (engineering) behind odyssey grind.

there is no way around it, credits are broken and there is only one solution: fix and balance first, then a wipe. don't expect that happening.

however, credits being broken does not justify (imo) refraining to fix the botched situation with materials. like i said, yes, they are easy to come by now, just tedious, so what's the point just fiddling around.

Buying materials is a solution in search of a problem, but damn if it won't create a bunch of problems along the way.

what problems exactly?
 
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there is no way around it, credits are broken and there is only one solution: fix and balance first, then a wipe. don't expect that happening.
Look at that, my favourite (but maybe dead) horse!
Yes, here's the big issue that needs to be understood when discussing an idea like materials for credits. Obviously it makes a lot of sense that materials, just like commodities, should be possible to trade for credits. There is no strange law of nature or legal structure in the Elite universe that would prevent us from doing this. But with the insanely broken credit economy we have, implementing a features like this will just move the taints from the credit economy to the material economy. I think that Frontier has good reason not to do something like this until the underlying problem is fixed.

This game has a very strange relationship to grind. Sometimes you can get ultrafast progression if you follow the right meta and play according to the rules and some times you are basically timewalled - it's 20 hours of gameplay to proceed, no matter user skill, how much risk they are willing to take or what approach they have. I don't like grind. I also don't think that this game should be a sandbox mode experience where you can gain everything practically immediatly. The real (and difficult) solution in my opinion is to make the basic game experience meaningful and have progression being something that happens on the side. What's meaningful, of course, differs between people. I think that features that would make the game meaningful to me would be more challenge and variation from the surroundings (stronger NPC, more NPC character archetypes, more complex and difficult missions, more basic 'scenarios' if that makes sense), a working economy (where it feels like commodities actually partake directly in production chains, and rewards scale with risk and investment) and a general feeling of a 'living' universe (numerous things connected to how factions work, news, ingame events, background lore and even things like system/planet/station names and system flavour descriptions). Oh, and more engaging multiplayer gameplay, PvP needs to feel better. Commodity prices and player bounties have pretty much not scaled at all despite the massive inflation that the credit economy has undergone since the beta.

Another interesting approach could be to drastically reduce the permamence of all assets. In a game like DayZ, one sniper or 3 seconds of disorientation can be enough for you to lose everything and start over from the beginning. Then, it does not matter much that you, with some luck or taking a few risks, can get well on the way back to the top in a short time. I'm not suggesting this for Elite, I just wanted to bring it up as another approach to try and shed some light on what I think this problem looks like.

Instead of fixing this (to be fair, complex, difficult and of subjective nature) problem, we have frontier introducing new ''currencies'' (can they even be called that when they are not interchangeable with the other currencies and only substitutable for a very narrow category of goods/services?). Congratulations! The grind is saved, by compartmentalizing the game economy. Ultimately I think that it would be better to attack the big underlying problems, but you can't put a name on that and sell it as DLC...
 
I have a lot of ships, and without a loadout system, switching modules between them every time is a huge pain. So, I engineer the core internals of each individually. It isn't a place you just happen upon, either. Pharmaceutical isolators are also a nightmare to find, and can only be found by actively looking for them.
Been saying this since I bought the game, the Outfitting screen needs a complete makeover - a proper management screen where you can see all your ships, where they are, what modules they have and be able to manipulate them at will; send them to whatever destination you like, rip out modules and put them in other ships (as long as they're on the station you're on).
Having to click on something 3 or 4 times just to install it is ridiculous: 'Are you sure you want to do this thing?' 'Are you definitely 100% sure you want to do this thing?' 'Wouldn't you rather have a nice cup of tea and think about it before following this course of action?' <Redacted> Off!!!!

On topic: I vote for fixing the economy and folding mats gathering into it.
I've done crafting on a few MMO's and this is the first time I've been so frustrated that on buying the Mamba I just went around cannibalising my old ships modules rather than start fresh - and I've happily started a completely new game of NMS several times over even knowing the grind that's to come. I'm guessing the pleasure / pain threshold is better done in that game.
 
im sure combat folk feel the same, as my pockets are filled with polonium and "raw" materials etc, but manufactured materials & data materials... im skint equally if we could trade with other CMDRs it would be nice too and also solve the problem, and is probably the only worthy and palatable solution which might work for everyone? i.e ill trade you raw mats for manufactured, because i dont mind gathering raw materials i enjoy it.

Or, and this might just sound completely crazy, you could just make use of existing gameplay to provide all the mat's you could want.

Tag along with somebody for an hour in a CZ and you can fill up almost all your G1-G4 mat's without firing a shot.

Alas, it seems like both the dev's and the players often overlook the co-op aspect of the game. :(
 
Or, and this might just sound completely crazy, you could just make use of existing gameplay to provide all the mat's you could want.

Tag along with somebody for an hour in a CZ and you can fill up almost all your G1-G4 mat's without firing a shot.

Alas, it seems like both the dev's and the players often overlook the co-op aspect of the game. :(

Unless i know the person well im sure "hey let me hoover up mats while you kill everything and i don't contribute nothing to the wing" sounds about as appetizing as bacon cooked on a radiator, or at least that's a similar more political response to what i just got on Discord to test your theory and back up my own experience.

and typically we hang around in communities with similar interests, so yes majority of my friends list are dotted about the galaxy with no interest in combat other than when they're after mats themselves at which point we dont need to be fighting over PI's and its more efficient to do it solo. if drops were doubled in a wing it might encourage co-op play but until then... (and even then two ships harvesting with limpets will get very messy indeed!)

so its not that players overlook co-op its that it offers no benefit, even in the scenario you highlighted its all one sided, if it offered benefits for both players then people would be more inclined to let you tag along. (for example 'reward = Bounty X players in instance'.. who knows, or combat EXP = NPC Rank X player number multiplier) therefore the other player can earn more money or more exp for letting you tag along, (and those are just examples of rewards)

A good example was EXP leaching in Diablo 2 (IIRC), it was acceptable because more players = more loot & more EXP so there is incentive there to add them to a party both players gained something, but the minute the 'noob' started steeling unique loot then a new party quickly formed. its just human nature.

point is while there is no incentive to let you sit there hoovering mats up while not contributing, therefore co-op relies on an existing relationship or rare in game opportunity which isn't common practice, and probably why co-op doenst happen between strangers, but you're correct in the fact the dev's have overlooked the co-op potential here.
 
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