Another thread type for the bingo card, 'community of different people don't all think the same'.
OK Frontier, You Win
- Thread starter Vetinari
- Start date
True about the popularity of warzones.
But looking at the same type of CG with different rewards, the participation numbers speak for themselves.
Next week:
Faction A requires you to bring a commodity to station X in system Z.
Faction B (same government type, same power affiliation) requires you to bring the same commodity to station Y (same station type, same facilities available, exact same distance from star) in system Z for the exact same tier reward structure, no unique modules/decals/paint jobs/extra rewards of any kind in order to trigger the exact same story element, but for faction B rather than faction A.
System Z is permit-locked - so no carriers are allowed.
Everyone's cargo hatch will be disabled for the week to prevent unfair teabagging.
Did I miss anything?
EDIT: Oh yes: everyone has to use a stock E-rated sidewinder.
Faction A requires you to bring a commodity to station X in system Z.
Faction B (same government type, same power affiliation) requires you to bring the same commodity to station Y (same station type, same facilities available, exact same distance from star) in system Z for the exact same tier reward structure, no unique modules/decals/paint jobs/extra rewards of any kind in order to trigger the exact same story element, but for faction B rather than faction A.
System Z is permit-locked - so no carriers are allowed.
Everyone's cargo hatch will be disabled for the week to prevent unfair teabagging.
Did I miss anything?
EDIT: Oh yes: everyone has to use a stock E-rated sidewinder.
Last edited:
Yummy, I'm already looking forward to it.
Is there a penalty for playing closed?
There is ! ! !
Even better.
So what's the point of the CG then?
Other than a text wall with faction A instead of faction B?
No rewards? No thanks
I remember the old CGs, where a decal was awarded, depending on what tier you finished. Bounty hunting, trading, etc, and went from Gold/silver/bronze for top 10, 25 and 50%.
This with 2 provisos:
1. Some players (including me) jump 'roles' from week to week, from CG to CG, we participate in different CGs for different reasons if our 'primary' reason isnt 'met' - some will just complain their primary reason isnt met in this particular CG
2. Some players (me included) will do a 'type' of CG one week but not for 2 weeks running - I took a break from combat until going to the Ackwada CG on Tuesday evening just to make sure I was counted as a 'contributing player' (850K top 75%). I just wanted a break and to do my own thing. Wasn't that the CG was bad, just I personally wanted a week off from bullet sponges.
And CZs are the hardest bar Thargs, bullet sponges, Bounty Hunting CG would be 'easier' to get kills. Have they ever done a BH one of any type? Declare one side 'outlaws' for example, could do that in Chanis et al
Kind of, but written in a 'Some of us know, we know you know and have been exasperated, now you know we know and hopefully that gives you some confidence to carry on or just some ammo to argue your case'....and maybe one person will read it and go 'Oh yeah, I should just wait for 7 days til the next one instead of kicking off' but thats unlikely.
Because they said all this in the Livestreams, including in the main one that Thursday evening that announced it all and yet it still happens:
"Everything that has happened is deliberate" - said at least twice by Arf on that Thursday in response to comments in chat about AX call for defence going out. Players still complain about AX station comms response.....until its discovered the very next day the bombs were Tharg enzyme and it was deliberate that the stations misunderstood what had happened. (see ID quoted above)
"There will be something for everyone" - cant count how many times this was said and yet still.....wheres the AX, wheres Colonia, wheres the PVP etc etc because it hasnt happened yet / immediately / been the primary focus so far.
Just thought if it was written down.....well at least they'd know someone was listening coz sometimes it sure doesn't feel like it from the forums (public feedback)
You know, you may have a point...So what's the point of the CG then?
Other than a text wall with faction A instead of faction B?
No rewards? No thanks
I remember the old CGs, where a decal was awarded, depending on what tier you finished. Bounty hunting, trading, etc, and went from Gold/silver/bronze for top 10, 25 and 50%.
1. Fair point, I do the same. I got a ship for every purpose and a carrier hauling my behind and the tons of gear I have accumulated over the years.
2. I'm happy to do whatever CG there is, as long as there is an incentive to participate. I have no issues doing CGs for 4 weeks straight. Been there, done that. As long as something motivates me. An RP text wall doesn't do anything for me. If I see we can get a discount on federal ships? Sure, count me in, I'm doing my part! Faction A gloats over the defeat of faction B? Uhuuu... that's nice. You two now go back on the playground and play nice.
I would say a more accurate, but more offensive, critique is that players usually don’t know what’s good for them. gamers generally want to be as powerful (over powered) as possible. But there is a reason it’s called “over”powered: it trivializes the game. A game that has no challenges will lose most (though usually not all) its players. It’s the death-knell of a game. Seriously, there is no achievement (and thus no reward, and ur-thus no reason) playing a game in which you can do anything utterly unopposed. You can’t win...because you can’t lose. The novelty of godhood wears off quickly and all that remains is tedium.
a dev’s focus is on making a gameenjoyable and long lasting (not always in that order or in equal proportion). This is fundamentally at odds with just giving players everything they want. There are bargain bins of examples where doing so (either by giving them what is actually demanded, or by giving them in letter what they wanted but not in spirit) killed a promising game. Examples to the contrary are rare outliers; and generally regardingQoL, bugs, and content type and not balance or power changes.
so, far be it from being careful to interpret player wants, they should be screened and generally ignored. Players shouldresearch what they are getting into and come to terms with what they got, rather than every single gamer with equal or near equal rights out of the thousands each trying to change the game in different, contradictory ways.
democracy doesn’t work for game design.
well, structurally it's the typical whiteknight exercise of amplifying the comments of a minority, promoting them to false reality then use them in a fallacious confrontation to somehow throw flowers at frontier by demeaning an abstract 'teh playerbase'. so it's the standard self-help motivational drama, superficially pro-frontier but actually addressing the author's own internal frustration and echoing it on like-minded audience.
you're welcome.
Personally, I like the new CGs and the balancing attempts. This latest one is spot on so far and could be the closest one in Tier outcomes (which after only 3 weeks stats I have to say Im impressed how close this one is, could be beginners luck ofc
Yeap, I really like what they're doing currently.
And i really liked what they did last year with the Interstellar Initiatives.
Agreed.
Not really, you need to cite this interpretation. For them it is reality.
Citation needed for demeaning, the playerbase is made up of all sorts of players, I was trying to reach them all and not chase anyone off.
Nothing superficial about it. I state it explicitly in the last 2 paragraphs and in 2 further posts.
Anybody posting an opinion is addressing their own internal frustration. I tried not to talk to an echo chamber, I tried to avoid that specifically. I am trying to change minds yes, or at least offering my POV and hoping others can agree or at least see my POV (but thats not special to me or this topic)
Im sorry the subtlety missed you completely. The accurate analysis is:
Highlight the case for and against.
Try and keep the audience with you as you go through and suggest why this may not be as good as it first appears.
Highlight pros and cons and compare to previous. More of the same or something different?
Show that if you are going to get complaints anyway, and you are, then is it 'better' or 'worse' to get the same old complaints or to get some new complaints because you tried something new. I suggest it is no worse and for me is better to at least try something new.
All the time trying not to 'flame' anyone or get backs up or dismiss anyone as irrelevant.
Just trying to say, 'Have you thought about it this way?'
The fact that 2 people werent sure if it was pro or against to me means I got it right. It allowed both sides to see the same argument without being offended that I was attacking any player.
I've been enjoying the CG's, I dont find them are imbalanced nor restrictive.
-it's entirely in keeping with the scale of galactic politics that players don't have overwhelming authority.
-I expect that FDev will have planned for the various outcomes so dont kid yourself that you can redirect the narrative whenever you want. FDev hav said, however, that there are junctions within the narrative so there will be the opportunity for players to have a decisive impact.
-The Eurybia CG wasnt unbalanced: the engineer offered an engineered reward, the Empire offered much more money (I didnt realise initially that the reward 'levels' were different for Mafia/Empire). This is a credible way for both parties to react. It says more to the credit imbalance in the game that the engineers reward was seen as more valuable than the Empire's credits.
-it's been fascinating to see the interaction of various Elite groups/modes: ganker & anti-ganker drama happening around the AX CG for example. It would have been great, and consistent with the game, to have more high-grade emissions appearing in the aftermath of AX combat: this would then have created more action in the system.
It would have been interesting to have 'third way' outcomes accommodated by FDev: the delivery of relief supplies to persecuted systems in place of Attack/Defend refugee ships or, in the most recent one, to have another option other than just combatting Thargoids: what if scanning an interceptor would allow peaceful interaction such as trading of commodities or a way to reduce antagonism? This, however, isnt realistic: there's quite a sharp distinction between 'personal narrative' (wander around doing your own thing) and CG's (carefully plotted storyline). I think that the current plotlines being developed by the CG's and Galnet are great; this does seem like a new initiative by FDev to bring some narrative to Elite and does seem to have required a lot of investment in planning, creating and running them. Let's see how this goes, maybe the next step will be for FDev to allow more interactive/responsive narratives.
-it's entirely in keeping with the scale of galactic politics that players don't have overwhelming authority.
-I expect that FDev will have planned for the various outcomes so dont kid yourself that you can redirect the narrative whenever you want. FDev hav said, however, that there are junctions within the narrative so there will be the opportunity for players to have a decisive impact.
-The Eurybia CG wasnt unbalanced: the engineer offered an engineered reward, the Empire offered much more money (I didnt realise initially that the reward 'levels' were different for Mafia/Empire). This is a credible way for both parties to react. It says more to the credit imbalance in the game that the engineers reward was seen as more valuable than the Empire's credits.
-it's been fascinating to see the interaction of various Elite groups/modes: ganker & anti-ganker drama happening around the AX CG for example. It would have been great, and consistent with the game, to have more high-grade emissions appearing in the aftermath of AX combat: this would then have created more action in the system.
It would have been interesting to have 'third way' outcomes accommodated by FDev: the delivery of relief supplies to persecuted systems in place of Attack/Defend refugee ships or, in the most recent one, to have another option other than just combatting Thargoids: what if scanning an interceptor would allow peaceful interaction such as trading of commodities or a way to reduce antagonism? This, however, isnt realistic: there's quite a sharp distinction between 'personal narrative' (wander around doing your own thing) and CG's (carefully plotted storyline). I think that the current plotlines being developed by the CG's and Galnet are great; this does seem like a new initiative by FDev to bring some narrative to Elite and does seem to have required a lot of investment in planning, creating and running them. Let's see how this goes, maybe the next step will be for FDev to allow more interactive/responsive narratives.
1. If players don't have any authority, why are we the ones doing all the heavy lifting? Let the NPCs stay in line and wait 10 mins for a new batch of rum and cigars. Let the 'overwhelming authority' fight the thargoids, risk their life and ships. Those poor people trapped in burning stations? Yeah, let the NPCs do that too because you know... we don't have any authority here.
2. That's called railroading. Those who play D&D or even are a DM: We know this is bad. Give the players a false sense of freedom to do what they want, only to make them go your way because every other way is blocked by an insurmountable obstacle.
3. But credits are meaningless. Ever since passenger missions, credits had less of an impact as a reward, and since mining got changed in 2018, it lost all value. You can become a billionaire in less than 24 hours if you go mining. (blah blah, not everyone enjoys mining blah blah). Well you won't get rich risking your life as a combat pilot or as a pirate.
Unless you raise the CR rewards into very high (and probably unreasonable) brackets, people will go for what they cannot buy with credits.
Why are many choosing a mission reward with 5 exquisite focus crystals over an extra 4m credits? Because there is no place I can buy the 5 crystals with any kind of money.
6m reward or 2m reward and some G5 data? Data please!
Frontier, the Killer DM.