If you are after bonds, go after weak ships like Asp Scouts but particularly Eagles in CZs. Use gimbals and never become separated from a large group of greens. All other ships will be too tanky or fast so stick to these. It will be slow going but you'll scrape by.
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Newcomer / Intro Very frustrated with PvE combat
- Thread starter AceMcKool
- Start date
There is.
The progression is:
- Navigation Beacon
- low intensity resource extraction zone (RES)
- medium RES
- high RES
- compromised Nav Beacon
- hazardous RES
- low intensity Combat Zone (CZ)
- (arguably) medium intensity CZ
- high intensity CZ
- visit Deciat in Open
You tried to jump in at the deep end and got wet.
I think the whole idea of unlocking that engineer is so you can use his skills to upgrade the combat modules he does. As they are (not all, I agree) combat related, he'll want a certain proficiency in that discipline.
What I would do is visit some RES sites (start low, progress to haz when ready). They will teach you skills so you can at least make some progress in a CZ. You never know, you may enjoy the combat side - I hated it to start with but once you blow up a few baddies, you'll get that thousand yard stare and start yelling "Get some! Get some!" to your COVAS.
EDIT Ninja'd - a good few minutes ago. I count it as a ninja as I never saw the post from Ashank. Ahem.
What I would do is visit some RES sites (start low, progress to haz when ready). They will teach you skills so you can at least make some progress in a CZ. You never know, you may enjoy the combat side - I hated it to start with but once you blow up a few baddies, you'll get that thousand yard stare and start yelling "Get some! Get some!" to your COVAS.
EDIT Ninja'd - a good few minutes ago. I count it as a ninja as I never saw the post from Ashank. Ahem.
I think across all my accounts (too many) I have only unlocked this engineer once - let's face it Ishmaak, Dekker and Sarge are not really worth the bother. Who uses mines and cannons anyway?
Cannons were fun at on time....
To me haz res seems easier than compromised nav beacon but otherwise list is about correct.There is.
The progression is:
- Navigation Beacon
- low intensity resource extraction zone (RES)
- medium RES
- high RES
- compromised Nav Beacon
- hazardous RES
- low intensity Combat Zone (CZ)
- (arguably) medium intensity CZ
- high intensity CZ
- visit Deciat in Open
You tried to jump in at the deep end and got wet.
They're still fun, just totally outclassed in most scenarios by either PAs or MCs.
It will however teach them how to fight and set up his ship to get the combat bonds he is after though...
In a relatively safe environment.
Basically op, you brought a transit van to a war zone, and are wondering why you can't do anything? Like anything in this game, if you want to do something, you really should build a specific ship for it. This doesn't mean you have to go absolutely crazy, but you can't expect a trading ship to wander into higher end combat areas and walk out unscathed, or even achieve much of anything.
This is the same build you posted above, but improved in every way possible, for very little effort, and using only the basic engineering you've unlocked thus far. See how it's faster by 80m/s and over 100m/s on a boost? Dirty drag drives, available at Felicity (and pretty much a must have on any ship, but especially on a combat ship). More speed and better maneuverability keeps you on target and out of your enemies. See how its weapons are reversed (multis in the medium slots, lasers in the smalls) from how you had them? Smaller weapons suffer damage drop off against larger ships hulls, so getting the most bang out of your more limited ammo based weaponry for dealing hull damage is usually how to do things. Your lasers can pew pew all the time for additional dps without concern, so make them small and once shields drop, open up with the multies and shred fools.
Also notice the armor? And how we're not wasting any space on cargo racks and limpets? This is a combat ship, we want to do combat. That other stuff is irrelevant, all that matters is more hp. Also switching to reactive instead of military grade has boosted our resistances significantly in areas where it matters. See those numbers at the top? We now have twice as much absolute armor. We have 5 times as much explosive. 4 Times as much kinetic. Heck, even the thermal, which we tanked into -30% in resistances still comes up double due to sheer amounts of hp. We even have room for some module protection, because why not?
This is what a combat ship looks like. All those enemies in a CZ? Yeah, they look like this. Except with even more engineering. And with tougher AI's. That's why you struggled. As others have said, you basically jumped into the deep end. Conflict zones specifically are designed to be a bit harder than regular combat, which is found in Resource Extraction Sites with bounty hunting. Ships there are lower level and they aren't as optimized, meaning a ship like the one I just posted is more at home there, especially for learning the ropes. And there's still a lot of ropes to learn; PIP management, thruster control, sub-system targeting, FA-off, these are all things you learn as you start out in combat in Elite.... but not at a CZ.
And not in a van.
This is the same build you posted above, but improved in every way possible, for very little effort, and using only the basic engineering you've unlocked thus far. See how it's faster by 80m/s and over 100m/s on a boost? Dirty drag drives, available at Felicity (and pretty much a must have on any ship, but especially on a combat ship). More speed and better maneuverability keeps you on target and out of your enemies. See how its weapons are reversed (multis in the medium slots, lasers in the smalls) from how you had them? Smaller weapons suffer damage drop off against larger ships hulls, so getting the most bang out of your more limited ammo based weaponry for dealing hull damage is usually how to do things. Your lasers can pew pew all the time for additional dps without concern, so make them small and once shields drop, open up with the multies and shred fools.
Also notice the armor? And how we're not wasting any space on cargo racks and limpets? This is a combat ship, we want to do combat. That other stuff is irrelevant, all that matters is more hp. Also switching to reactive instead of military grade has boosted our resistances significantly in areas where it matters. See those numbers at the top? We now have twice as much absolute armor. We have 5 times as much explosive. 4 Times as much kinetic. Heck, even the thermal, which we tanked into -30% in resistances still comes up double due to sheer amounts of hp. We even have room for some module protection, because why not?
This is what a combat ship looks like. All those enemies in a CZ? Yeah, they look like this. Except with even more engineering. And with tougher AI's. That's why you struggled. As others have said, you basically jumped into the deep end. Conflict zones specifically are designed to be a bit harder than regular combat, which is found in Resource Extraction Sites with bounty hunting. Ships there are lower level and they aren't as optimized, meaning a ship like the one I just posted is more at home there, especially for learning the ropes. And there's still a lot of ropes to learn; PIP management, thruster control, sub-system targeting, FA-off, these are all things you learn as you start out in combat in Elite.... but not at a CZ.
And not in a van.
I can’t remember the last time I even used that guy. Far as I remember, there isn’t much he really offers anyway.
G5 Sensors and G5 Detailed Surface Scanner are both nice if not essential and access to The Sarge who does a nice line in limpet controller blueprints.
I got the bounty hunting part covered. That is easy. What I need is the 50 combat bonds to unlock the engineer, which it says right there that they can only be earned in CZs.
Again, not interested in any of that. And it really bothers me that I will have to forcibly learn those ropes –and buy an expensive ship/build– so I can unlock a 2nd tier engineer.
A few people giving me a hard time because of the Cobra 3. I didn't pull that build out of my a**, you know? I mentioned in my OP that I had picked it up from a supposedly "expert" source (scroll down for build link). See the original? If anything, all I did was actually improve it by adding the reinforcement packages and the gimballed lasers.
Thanks for the build advise, though. I appreciate it.
The build your ship was based on was in a section on Basic combat which Conflict Zones aren’t really.A few people giving me a hard time because of the Cobra 3. I didn't pull that build out of my a**, you know? I mentioned in my OP that I had picked it up from a supposedly "expert" source (scroll down for build link). See the original? If anything, all I did was actually improve it by adding the reinforcement packages and the gimballed lasers.
Thanks for the build advise, though. I appreciate it.
Personally I like gimballed weapons (and turrets) but that improved aiming comes at a cost in damage done.
If I was going to base a Cobra 3 on that build for a CZ I would change it even more, like this one.
Coriolis EDCD Edition
A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous
coriolis.io
First off, which I did mention before, why are you bothering to open this engineer and gain access to the two more? You say you are not into combat but the only G5 mods in that lot that are not available from others are for the Mine Layer and the Cannon. Tiana Fortune does all the limpet controllers that Sarge has G5 for and the sensor G5 mods from Ishmaak are available at more than one other engineer. (Dekker can be ignored as she is useless, just an encouragement for more CZ combat.)
So why?
Second - it is all very well saying you are not interested in the combat techniques mentioned - but you are looking for advice in how to get combat bonds - so you really need to think about how to "do" combat if you are actually going to earn any. Dismissing the advice out of hand is not very good manners is it?
Third - people are telling you that the NPCs in combat zones are built for combat - they have a higher "hit point" count than run-of-the-mill NPCs plus there is a greater amount of engineered NPCs you can encounter. So hoping to defeat a strong NPC when you are limiting yourself to 2xmedium and 2xsmall weapons in a multi-role small ship without having the skill and knowledge (as per the hints you are not interested in) is going to end in frustration. - As it so obviously has.
The Ishmaak tree of engineers is either a troll by F D as the three are not that useful or is specifically produced to encourage players to gain proficiency in combat so as to get those G5 modifications on their cannons. - You decide. - In any event I would suggest that these three are not suited for someone who is "not in this game for the combat".
Enjoy the game, don't let this issue spoil things for you.
Well, to be honest, that's kinda the point of the engineers really. All of them make you jump through hoops to meet their requirements and play different aspects of the game. Some require you to trade, others explore 5kLYs away, one wants you to rank up with the Empire and another with the Feds, and some require combat. They do this deliberately, to force players to partake in all aspects of the game, like an extended part of the learning curve. Some people may not like it, but that's just how it is. Want better armor? Best get mining those 500 units. Want improved thrusters? You got some travelling to do, etc. Are you gona get locked out of certain engineers if you don't wanna break the law and smuggle stuff, or only want to support a certain power? I guess so, but then, why deliberately nerf yourself? Why not play all that the game has to offer?
Basically FD want you to play (or at least, try) all the parts of their game if you want to unlock all the little boosts that make life easier whilst playing.
A few people giving me a hard time because of the Cobra 3. I didn't pull that build out of my a**, you know? I mentioned in my OP that I had picked it up from a supposedly "expert" source (scroll down for build link). See the original? If anything, all I did was actually improve it by adding the reinforcement packages and the gimballed lasers.
Thanks for the build advise, though. I appreciate it.
Well, I can't speak to what Exigeous was doing with that build (and I ain't watching a 2 hour video to see if he explains it), but I can tell you straight off that whatever that build he posted there is, it's not a combat build. Going by the title of that vid, I'm gona guess he was out doing some mining, then jumped over to doing some bounty hunting, probably just on a whim for fun, so swapped out his mining gear for guns, which, sure, I guess works if you have combat experience and don't care about how good it is. And sure, it might work... for bounty hunting, but certainly not for CZ's. Just because an "expert" posts a ship build he's thrown together on a whim doesn't make it any good, especially if you take it and then do something entirely different with it.
Thargoids aside, because I wouldn't know, CZs are the hardest form of PvE combat. Enemies are at least fully A-rated, smaller ships are proper hull tanked and bigger ships are shield AND hull-tanked.
If you have the credits (22m), buy a Vulture and build it like THIS. I'd need to see video evidence that a Cobra can last long enough in even a Low CZ to get more than one kill, with minimal experience and/or no more engineering than this Vulture build. Don't discredit the Multicannons, they are perfectly fine for this method. You'll need the 5A shields (not bi-weaves, the Vulture doesn't make use of quick recharge). You don't need heavy weapons for this: read on.
Before entering the CZ, make sure you have buttons mapped to quickly activate shield cell bank AND heat sink. Make sure you have multicannons set to primary fire and chaff to secondary, then arrange your pips as per the above link.
Now, enter any Low CZ, move to about 6km from the fighting, stop. Wait a few seconds for the inevitable handful of extra ships that will drop in. THEN choose your side - making sure the enemy isn't the controlling faction of the nearest station. THEN - would be best to map to buttons/keys - scroll through enemy ships using 'Cycle next hostile target'. Keep scrolling until you find one with no shields, head quickly for that enemy, ignoring any fire you take for now. Make sure your ally is still firing on the enemy ship, wait for the hull to drop to maybe 15% for smaller ships, under 10% for biggest ships, and start firing. The enemy won't last long so if they decide to turn their weapons on you quickly they won't have time to do too much damage. Repeat, find enemy with no shields, wait for low hull %, finish them off. As long as you hit them with at least one bullet before their hull reaches 0% you'll get the kill.
Watch your shields (you may have picked up a tail on your boost to the shield-less enemy) and if you face heavy fire from an enemy pop chaff and a shield cell bank (and heat sink at the same time!) straight away. Even if your shields are full, the cell bank takes a few seconds to activate and by then you could very well have lost a ring or two.
UNDER HEAVY FIRE = chaff, boost, shield cell/heat sink, full throttle, second chaff, boost, boost, boost. The enemy will usually give up the chase once you're 10km away.
One kill = one combat voucher. You can claim bounty vouchers in the same system the Low CZ is in, it doesn't matter who owns the station, including if the enemy owns it. If you run out of ammo or cell banks, simply boost out of the fighting zone and low wake to the nearest station for re-arm/repair where you can claim the vouchers you've earned so far, at the same time.
Good luck.
If you have the credits (22m), buy a Vulture and build it like THIS. I'd need to see video evidence that a Cobra can last long enough in even a Low CZ to get more than one kill, with minimal experience and/or no more engineering than this Vulture build. Don't discredit the Multicannons, they are perfectly fine for this method. You'll need the 5A shields (not bi-weaves, the Vulture doesn't make use of quick recharge). You don't need heavy weapons for this: read on.
Before entering the CZ, make sure you have buttons mapped to quickly activate shield cell bank AND heat sink. Make sure you have multicannons set to primary fire and chaff to secondary, then arrange your pips as per the above link.
Now, enter any Low CZ, move to about 6km from the fighting, stop. Wait a few seconds for the inevitable handful of extra ships that will drop in. THEN choose your side - making sure the enemy isn't the controlling faction of the nearest station. THEN - would be best to map to buttons/keys - scroll through enemy ships using 'Cycle next hostile target'. Keep scrolling until you find one with no shields, head quickly for that enemy, ignoring any fire you take for now. Make sure your ally is still firing on the enemy ship, wait for the hull to drop to maybe 15% for smaller ships, under 10% for biggest ships, and start firing. The enemy won't last long so if they decide to turn their weapons on you quickly they won't have time to do too much damage. Repeat, find enemy with no shields, wait for low hull %, finish them off. As long as you hit them with at least one bullet before their hull reaches 0% you'll get the kill.
Watch your shields (you may have picked up a tail on your boost to the shield-less enemy) and if you face heavy fire from an enemy pop chaff and a shield cell bank (and heat sink at the same time!) straight away. Even if your shields are full, the cell bank takes a few seconds to activate and by then you could very well have lost a ring or two.
UNDER HEAVY FIRE = chaff, boost, shield cell/heat sink, full throttle, second chaff, boost, boost, boost. The enemy will usually give up the chase once you're 10km away.
One kill = one combat voucher. You can claim bounty vouchers in the same system the Low CZ is in, it doesn't matter who owns the station, including if the enemy owns it. If you run out of ammo or cell banks, simply boost out of the fighting zone and low wake to the nearest station for re-arm/repair where you can claim the vouchers you've earned so far, at the same time.
Good luck.
G5: Sensors
G5: Detailed Surface Scanner
Both immediately available by unlocking just this one engineer (I never said anything about any others).
All other engies who offer those two mods are locked behind a whole other bunch of stuff (go to Colonia, deal with black markets, mine 500 tons of crap, high combat rank, etc).
Oh dear. You seriously think that gaining loads of combat bonds is less of a chore than selling stuff at 5 black markets or mining some junk? Lei Cheung is usually fourth on my list for the shields after his qualifier (Dweller) who is important for the PD mods. I don't usually bother with Bill Turner (who also does both of your scanners) as his other mods are not important to me but chewing through 500 tonne of mining at some point to get Selene's heavy duty armour mod is well worth while (adds no mass to a ship's lightweight armour).
P.S. I have never been to Colonia.
I did some CZ,s in an unengineered Krait 11 all A Rated and it was not simple and Ive spent a lot of time in Cz,s in an Engineered ship so the difference was very noticable
If I could afford a Krait I would get one collect bounty,s at a low res site fit a collector limpit and cago rack for limpits hoover up the mats from the ships you kill and open Tod and get 3 large multi.s overcharged , that and a couple of lasers on the two mediums get the FSD and Dirty Drives Power Plant and Shield Boosters done then go for CZ,s chalk and cheese
If I could afford a Krait I would get one collect bounty,s at a low res site fit a collector limpit and cago rack for limpits hoover up the mats from the ships you kill and open Tod and get 3 large multi.s overcharged , that and a couple of lasers on the two mediums get the FSD and Dirty Drives Power Plant and Shield Boosters done then go for CZ,s chalk and cheese