Ship Rebalance: A few tweaks to make some ships great again!

Hey everyone and specially Frontier Devs,

I decided to write this post because I like to use and tweak different ships to enjoy the game, and in fact the game has those ships! But some are useless by design in their specific rol (or at least a lot less useful than others). My problem is that if you want to be the most efficient in some roles, you have to choose Python (in outposts) or Anaconda / Cutter / Corvette (in large stations) over other vessels that would fit better in that role and I am a bit tired using always the same shps, to be honest. So I came across to this solution:

My idea
I underestand the problematic of adding module slots to ships because it can make them overpowered or unbalanced for other purposes. My solution for this is to create a new slot specific cathegory (like the militar ones already present in some militar ships), but for other purposes. For example, a Cargo only slot, in which you only can fit cargo racks, or a Passenger Cabin only slot, in which you can only fit passenger cabins. Then, some tweaks I would do:

Trade Vessels
Type-7:
Make it a Medium Vessel, add it a 5 Cargo-only slot, so the vessel now carries a maximum of 342T (vs 294T of the Python).
Type-9: Large Vessel, add it a 6 cargo-only slot, so you can have a maximum of 854T (vs 794T of the Cutter)

Passenger Vessels
Orca:
Make it a Medium Vessel, add it some passenger-only slots, so it can carry more than Python.
Beluga: Large Vessel, ad it some passenger-only slots, to make it able to carry more passengers than Anaconda.

This way you don't nerf ships (people hates nerfing things, you know); Python, Cutter and Anaconda would still be excelent vessels with strong combat capabilities and usable in other roles, but now you will also have dedicated ships to roles in which are better because they are specialized, but with less combat / defensive capabilities. A good trade-off that gives players more options, in my opinion.

o7
 
For years we asked they made dedicated ship to a role, better to it than multi-role ship.

But instead of making Multi-Role ships Jack of all trades master of none, they made them Jack of all trades master of all.
Therefore specialized ship became useless.

For Passenger ships it's even worse as Luxury passenger missions are rare, making more profitable to stack normal transportation with non specialised passenger ships.
It's like they release things without testing...
At the begining they even had locked slot, so they were not even multi-role. So they were mostly useless.

It's only when the Type-10 came out that they increased Type-9 capacity, by adding a 8 cargo slot, to make it still interesting and different from Type-10.
Before that they never listened to us...

Ideas like this was proposed so many times, that i'm sure nothing will be done about it... Unless new ships are released.
 
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For years we asked they made dedicated ship to a role, better to it than multi-role ship.

But instead of making Multi-Role ships Jack of all trades master of none, they made them Jack of all trades master of all.
Therefore specialized ship became useless.

For Passenger ships it's even worse as Luxury passenger missions are rare, making more profitable to stack normal transportation with non specialised passenger ships.
It's like they release things without testing...
At the begining they even had locked slot, so they were not even multi-role. So they were mostly useless.

It's only when the Type-10 came out that they increased Type-9 capacity, by adding a 8 cargo slot, to make it still interesting and different from Type-10.
Before that they never listened to us...

Ideas like this was proposed so many times, that i'm sure nothing will be done about it... Unless new ships are released.

Oh, that is sad to read. I'm fairly new to the game (I play since a month ago) and I've found that frustrating. I want to be a space trucker but the dedicated ships are trash versus the multipurpose ones. I saw Inara rankings to see build ideas and I ended watching people with 10 cutters, 10 anacondas and 10 corvettes. Even the best specific ships (type-9 and Beluga) are a bit worse than the Cutter or the Anaconda in transporting goodies or people. I saw that recently they were being responsive to the community and I thought they always have been like that, my mistake I suppose.
 
This has been a complaint for years now. Why would anyone buy one of the "specialised" ships, when the multirole can do it better. For Medium ships, the Python is better ate pretty much everything (mining, trading, combat) than eny of the specialists (except maybe the specialised killers like the FDL and the Mamba). The Anaconda was always better than the Type 9 or the Beluga, and then they introduced the Cutter, which even in a hard-asses combat fitting that is ridiculously hard to kill (I took one alone into a Class 6 non-Xeno pirate encounter and survived with basrely the loss of a shield ring) can still carry almost 400 tons of cargo...
There is no good reason to own a "specialist" now other than because you like the look of the cockpit, or it is a combat specialist, the others will always be out-done by the multipurpose ships.
 
This has been a complaint for years now. Why would anyone buy one of the "specialised" ships, when the multirole can do it better. For Medium ships, the Python is better ate pretty much everything (mining, trading, combat) than eny of the specialists (except maybe the specialised killers like the FDL and the Mamba). The Anaconda was always better than the Type 9 or the Beluga, and then they introduced the Cutter, which even in a hard-asses combat fitting that is ridiculously hard to kill (I took one alone into a Class 6 non-Xeno pirate encounter and survived with basrely the loss of a shield ring) can still carry almost 400 tons of cargo...
There is no good reason to own a "specialist" now other than because you like the look of the cockpit, or it is a combat specialist, the others will always be out-done by the multipurpose ships.

And that is exactly why I wrote this post! I don't want them nerf the multipurpose ships (that would enrage a lot of people, I know). I just want them to make the specialized ships a bit better in their specific role than the multipurpose ones (it seems logic, isn't it?). That would add variety to the game, and I think it isn't a hard change, because you already have the "militar only slots" in some ships. They only have to take that code, change militar to cargo or passengers, add them to the specialized vessels and voilà!
 
Ideas like this was proposed so many times, that i'm sure nothing will be done about it... Unless new ships are released.

The reason why it's not going to happen is a result of what happened when they added specialist military slots and passenger slots. Ever since then we get forum requests that the military slots be able to be used for other things, Fuel Scoops, Cargo and etc. People get quite upset about it and I doubt whether FDEV will ever go down that path again, it's just not worth it!
 
The reason why it's not going to happen is a result of what happened when they added specialist military slots and passenger slots. Ever since then we get forum requests that the military slots be able to be used for other things, Fuel Scoops, Cargo and etc. People get quite upset about it and I doubt whether FDEV will ever go down that path again, it's just not worth it!

I can't underestand why people would complain about that, for me it's a good design decision. If you make the military slots all-round slots, you are making the multipurpose ships even more overpowered. So, for example, the Cutter could carry 64T of cargo in addition to the 794T it can already carry, so it ends with a total of 858T. That would make Type-9 even more useless. Then, you end with end-gamers with a fleet of 10 Cutters, 10 Corvettes and 10 Anacondas, ignoring the other 35 ships. With my way, you buff a bit the ships in they specialized roles, but without making them all-rounders in the process.
 
they had passenger only slots for a long time in the Beluga and the Orca, the problem with that it killed their use for anything other then passengers. with the restriction lifted now they are decent exploration ships as well. Instead of reformatting ship construction Fdev could just boost the rate you see those luxury missions, so even though other ships can cram more economy passengers the specialized ships get consistent high end missions (in areas that are suited for it).

the cargo ships are in a good spot already, their low comparable price allows a player to access them much sooner. However that relies on credit income getting sorted out.
 
Ironically, with the passenger slot deresticted the Orca is now much, much better than a FAS in combat fit :D

I would love the Alliance ships to have more delicate engines, so the FAS has the advantage of being less vulnerable.
 
Heh, I can relate so much to you, OP. I've been playing for 6 months and my biggest gripes is the pointlessness of many specialized ships, dedicated cargos especially.


the cargo ships are in a good spot already, their low comparable price allows a player to access them much sooner. However that relies on credit income getting sorted out.

But you can balance ships in a way that both keep the sense of progression (so players will see pricier ships as an upgrade) AND still gives cheaper ships an objective reason to be played even after you bought something more expensive by giving them a niche where they can shine.

ie that's why the ability to land on medium pads would be great for the T7, and eventually the possibility to land on small pads for the T6 (maybe a couple other "small medium" ships) if FDev ever add some sort of small pads only "stations" (something that's been proposed quite a few times, things like tiny smuggling bases carved into asteroids, militry listening posts, etc).

And even if credit income gets "sorted out", you're better off with the meta jack of all trades at various price points (ie the whole Cobra -> AspX -> Python/Krait -> Conda/Cutter thing)

tl;dr "balancing" ships on price alone just doesn't work, and even if it did it would still be incredibly boring (yay Cutter/Conda for everything)
 
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The reason why it's not going to happen is a result of what happened when they added specialist military slots and passenger slots. Ever since then we get forum requests that the military slots be able to be used for other things, Fuel Scoops, Cargo and etc. People get quite upset about it and I doubt whether FDEV will ever go down that path again, it's just not worth it!

To be fair I think this was more of a UI issue than anything. Presentation is very important. When first introduced military slots were at the very bottom of the Core modules list, which had one simple problem: people weren't scrolling down far enough to see them.

As a result frontier moved them to the Optional internal slots in the UI... People saw them, but the trouble is having them smack dab in the middle of the optional list while not being actually optional made people think it was a restriction rather than a bonus and, in some cases, probably triggered people's mild OCD tendencies.

If the UI had been made differently and there were clear demarcations between different types of slot I don't think it would've generated so many complaints. You don't get people asking to put cargo racks in utility slots, because they're presented to the player differently.
 
The post-buff T7 is in a good spot, and before you could be a billionaire in a day, it was a good stepping-stone ship.

If any changes were made to the T7, it needs to have some medium hardpoints for core mining. That, or we need small core mining gear.
 
It's a good stepping stone, but it could be a good stepping stone that retains some utility after you buy a T9/Cutter/etc.
Like the Python does, simply because it can land on Medium pads.

I mean cargo ships give up A LOT, yet they're generally worse (or only marginally better at best) at their specialty than some other multipurpose ships that are slightly more expensive.

Just let me deliver cargo to outposts with my T7 :cry:
 
It's a good stepping stone

I think there's a case to be made that stepping stone ships are just not a great idea in a ~10+ year 'live service' game that both Frontier and its fans want to be played for hundreds or thousands of hours. There's definite, simple satisfaction in 'number-go-up', 'mo' money better ship' type progression, particularly in the early game. However, if a bunch of hulls are only useful for tiny fraction of playtime that's a shame, both in terms of end-game variety and Fdev having bothered to carefully render all those cockpits and sounds.

Obviously veteran players do dress down in less-good ships for RP or memes, which is fine and deserves praise, but I think Elite would be a better game if the ecosystem were a bit flatter and more ships had something to do.
 
The funny thing is: "FDEV making the game the way they want" also applies to balancing and making the game feel alive. They have their vision, which is at times really stuck up the Rectal defecation hole and they will go through hell and high water to push it through. I can understand it when it comes to having a solo and private mode, i can not understand it when it comes to fundamental gameplay and balancing.
But good luck trying to get anyone to listen, they're in their stupid ivory tower and there's no getting in there.

Edit: The swear word filter here is ridiculous. F*ck it.
 
Yeah, I would like it better if the Python or KraitII were not the only ships you ever really needed for everything in this game except PvP. You could even argue that the KraitII is acceptable for PvP if you are a decent enough pilot.

It's boring when the answer to almost every, "which ship should I get for use X", question that pops up, can legitimately be, "Python".
 
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