ANNOUNCEMENT Game Balancing Pt.2

Nothing is perfect and nothing is going to make everyone happy, but this is a great move!
Also, I'm sure FDev does not have a blank slate when it comes to making changes. There are surely core functions that are difficult and risky to change. I assume they will be making the changes that are the easiest and safest to implement.
I don't see this as a move to reduce total income that much but rather giving us choices on how we do it. A month ago you either mined painite or made far less income. Now you can mine, trade or fight and make about the same.
I personally think easy, low risk activities should make 50-100M / hour. High risk, high skill, 100-150M / hour.
 
For now, we've opted not to change Wing Massacre Missions following reports of consistently high payouts from these but we remain open to feedback.

In terms of potential combat payouts (as of yesterday),we have, (from best to worst);

1. Pirate MM's - Easy peasy and with a bit of searching (or using link at bottom of post) you can stack missions easily. Targets are all easy and little to no engineering is required, very low risk.

2. CZ MM's - Can't be stacked, only queued. Targets are a lot tougher and some engineering is recommended. Sub missions and ship kills both pay out less than normal pirates. I also like the idea of payouts for victory.

3. Assasination - Again, very easy content (wing one's are more akin to a CZ targets). Biggest peeve is the meet a contact time sink that is no more than a pita.

4. Thargoid - Based on an average Cmdr skill level vs Cyclops killing 3-4 an hour as intended. Heavy engineering and module/ weapon unlocks advised, very high risk to ship for newcomers. Insta-gibbing needs to be sorted or any balance pass could make it a meta earner for those that get their kills this way.

In terms of risk/ skill/ effort I believe that Thargoid hunting should be nearer the top, providing of course Cyclops insta-gibbing is looked at.

CZ's should follow that as, especially for newer Cmdrs, things can go very wrong very quickly and the TTK on each ship is much higher.

Slightly concerned about the buff to current pirate MM's as they are already, by far, the easiest combat content.

I feel this may have been overly buffed as it was already possible to earn around 100m/hr and I worry this may become the new meta due to low skill ceiling vs the others.

I am currently employing this tactic at the Fed CG so will post some hard numbers tomorrow when i next get on Elite.

 
pure speculation.

End of 2020 - final changes to payouts as in OP, early 2021 Odyssey and patches, mid - late 2021 begin to look at PP properly.

This CM team seem to have the ability to follow through where others havent for whatever reasons and I dont think they make false promises or lead people on, they just say No clear and simple when it is No.

I agree on the timescale, but the reward for Powerplay overall at rank 5 should at least be adjusted now, since its a weekly reward- in comparison to the rest of the game its doing 4 high paying missions which can be done in a few hours.

The real meat of Powerplay is not the payouts but the perks which needs a good look at but is outside the scope of this phase.
 
Will we also see a buff to missions / optionals that involve combat? Such as enemy incoming or salvage missions with enemy resistance?
 
They need to seriously nerf the effect of bounties on BGS influence for this to work. Right now a measly 100k bounty grants as much influence as 1 mil in trade profit or exploration data. You also don't need to own any stations in the system to make the bounties work compared to trade/exploration.
 
Will these changes to bounties affect multicrew payouts too? Will a (multi)crew member's payout also be 4x-10x the amount based on the kill?
 
Try not to forget us poor pirates in your rebalance FDev. We get hit by any nerf you land on the LTDs pricing because we are trapped into hunting LTDs miners since years. Thats the only valuable commodity we are able to find with a sort of reliability.
Try to improve that please, it would be nice if the spawn of out targets wud be tied to trade routes or system states, while right now all we can hunt are those LTDs carring miners in some wellknow systems. Make it more interesting please (other than more remunerative)

Thx ya
 
IMHO, bounty "farming" should get less of a buff than bounty HUNTING. In other words, just shooting endless waves of pirates in a RES should be less lucrative than accepting pirate assassination missions. Because let's face it, there is very little effort in farming a RES once you have an engineered combat ship (I would argue it takes more effort to mine). At least with assassination missions, there is the effort in hunting down your target, and you don't get endless waves of targets coming in and saying, "Please shoot me!" like you do in a RES.

This is just my opinion, and not one I'm going to lose sleep over if I'm ignored. 🤷

I'd argue "bounty farming" simply shouldn't exist, as it's fairly ridiculous that these pirate ships keep flocking to places to get executed en masse.

Each one of those pirates that drop in (or the wing of them) should be nearly as powerful as one of these assassination targets of the same difficulty level -and, they should be far less frequent, and actually flee (making the wake-scanner a useful tool for bounty hunters, instead of a utility almost solely used to get specific engineering data)
 
We're discussing player bounties internally and considering an increase to the current cap on those. This needs to be decided carefully to avoid exploitation.

Not if you just make sure no money is ever generated from player to player kills - keep it a zero sum situation and don't worry about this discouraging criminal play - try it and see how much effect it truly has. My guess is a negligible effect.
 
They need to seriously nerf the effect of bounties on BGS influence for this to work. Right now a measly 100k bounty grants as much influence as 1 mil in trade profit or exploration data. You also don't need to own any stations in the system to make the bounties work compared to trade/exploration.

If you want that, you're probably not defending a system's security state against an attack. You have to go out, get one or more bounty claims, fly back to the station, and cash in your voucher: meanwhile a CMDR on a murder spree has been killing the whole time.

So consider asking for a that plus a matching reduction in negative effects, but be prepared for @Jmanis to appear in a scarlet cloud of smoke to consign you to the nether hells.
 
Increase in credits will no doubt help the noob but those of us that have been playing for longer and have every ship in the game(some more than one) a FC and more credits than they can spend, what are we gonna do with all those extra credits? Because I kind of feel I've reached end game and I hate that feeling, hope Odyssey changes that feeling because I love this game
 
One observation to do here:

Don't make everything pay exactly the same, as this will mess up other kinds of game play.

While bounty hunting right now is ridiculous, I had a 30 minute session right now where I either got insanely lucky (or the changes outlined are in place). Just over two million credits. This is in a scenario, where 2.3 milliion credits in bounties (note that I get a small part of my bounties from other factions than the CG faction) currently puts me solidly in the 50% group that will gain a bonus of 12 million credits.

But unless these changes are permanent, this was most definitely a fluke. I have two three ships winds of high bounty target without taking damage thanks to (in part) very responsive system security.

But bounty hunting is very much about skill, knowledge and gear.

Skill in the form of avoiding having your shields damaged so much you have to retreat and recharge, as well as not getting outright blown up or get hull damage.

Knowledge in as knowing where the best hunting grounds are and to some extent how to build your ship.

Gear, as in having the right ship for the job, including engineering.


Skill comes with practice. It does improve your time in the area and increases your average earnings.
Knowledge is shared, that is what the community is four. Anyone can have access.
Gear requires credits, but credits are not that hard to come by, unless you go all Bobba Fet and want to play the whole game as a bounty hunter.
Gear also requires engineering materials, and that is a hurdle and a few hoops to grind through, if you have your eyes set on a single target.

Compare this to the cargo CG:
4000 tonnes of cargo delivered, again solidly in the 50% group. I deal exclusively in building fabricators and I would say about 30 minutes per 1000 tonnes (2 trips) and six milliion credits in pure profit. So I already made 24 million credits, and the bonus is 12 million.

Yes, this is not optimal, my Cutter lacks a guardian FSD booster so I need 2-3 jumps to get between a decent selling station and the CG station.

I also play these CGs less intensively than I did the previous ones, I am not pushing for top 25% or top 10%, just going along in the upper part of top 50% (say top 30%?) so I can feel relatively safe about those decals.


The point?

The point is that there should be other motivations than pure credit per hour to do various activites.

BGS and minore factions - to some extent will affect what goods are available, and it is fun to have a player faction that is present in the game in many systems. BGS is influenced by just about anything anyone does, but it would be prefarable if the actions of those caring about it has the most impact. Of course, the most obvious BGS activities are conflict (military as well as politics), so conflict zones (combat) and missions (where you give up part of your reward for influence). Combat will always pay, but if it pays too much it will be hard for players interested in the politics to influence the outcome, given that a lot of mercenaries will fight for either side.

Powers - almost everyone will do a stint of four weeks for each power to get access to their special gear (prismatic shields, packhound missiles etc). You do a quick stop, buy your way to rank 3 for 7.5 million credits and two trips in a large cargo ship and that is it. However, if you start to make money fast this way, those interested in the politics involved will be overrun (again) by opportunists that will just milk the system for as much credits as possible.

Bounty hunting I think I covered. It needs to pay better, even if it will influence the BGS to a larger extent, having more players actively hunt those pesky NPC pirates and (eventually) improve security in a few systems is not a bad thing in my opinion, even if it solidifies the current controlling faction.

Mining and trade are basically the same, it is just a difference in gear and profitability. Trade uses small differences in prices and high volumes for good profits, while mining is about time in the field and then selling in the right place at the right time for maximum profits. So part of mining has a trade aspect, and both will, again, solidify controlling factions.

Exploration, the art of putting an ASP in front of things, does have its own rewards. You put your name in the game for everyone (well, those that happen to pass through that same distant corned of the universe at least) to see. The money is secondary, unless you are remapping the core for the 5678th time using road ro riches to FSS earth like worlds. And you get awesome screen shots.

Piracy? Let's just say that these crimes don't pay. Should they? Shold you be able to park next to an uninhabited star and wait for a steady stream of NPC trade ships to drop in and lose cargo? Perhaps, there are certainly enough NPC pirates around every time I move a ship with a decent cargo in the holds.

Smuggling? It is fun. It is not profitable, except for the rare time you find "illegal salvage" at a crash site and have to fence it. But most of the time it is not worth the effort, honestly.


So try to remember that we do things in game for other things than the credits per hour, and except for racing and blowing yourself up trying to fit sideways through the mail slot in an Asp, it is impossible to not make at least some money doing whatever you feel like doing.

And occationally profit will be a hindrance to those that want to partake in an activity for non-profit reasons, such as the endless stream of players doing "power play stuff" to gain those 750 merits so they can buy stuff. And yes, I am one of those players this week, going to get my prismatics on Thursday.


Did I not mention PVP? Well, pvp in this game is a bad joke. Gankers and griefers that come in wings of ships that individually outclass the trading ship they attack at least as much as my partly engineered Viper outclasses an E-rated Sidewinder. Except the odd occation when someone decides to have a duel between friends.
 
Such a wall of text and I forgot one key aspect:

Missions.

Missions should be the extra in game incentive to engage in certain activities. They should put that activity into supreme money making mode.

But for that to work, we will need to be able to search for missions, rather than have a tiny random selection that we try to stack up.
 
Greetings Commanders,

Last week we posted this announcement about our plans for game balancing. Make sure to give it a read for information on the changes that were implemented last week and an overview of our plans.

A lot has happened in the short amount of time since then. We've collected and analysed your feedback and are happy to confirm that Anti-Xeno combat and Powerplay (the most frequent topics in your replies) will be part of our long term plans as well as many other aspects of Elite Dangerous that were mentioned. On Monday we rolled out the Mining and Trade changes described in the post and made some adjustments which we'll continue to examine and tweak as necessary. For now, they seem to have had the expected impact but your continued feedback is welcome.

This past week we've been discussing and preparing the combat changes described in our previous post. The following changes can be expected later today alongside a GalNet article:

Bounties
Bounties from NPCs will see significant increases from approximately four times as much for the highest paying ones to ten times as much for the lower paying ones. Please note that the number of credits shown immediately in your HUD when you destroy a criminal ship won't display the newly increased amounts. This will need to wait until we're certain of the final numbers. Accurate bounty figures can be found in the Transactions tab in your left panel.

Solo Combat Missions
We're also increasing the payouts for Massacre and Assassination missions. Several economic factors affect the pay offered, but we expect these to grant around twice as many credits as before. For now, we've opted not to change Wing Massacre Missions following reports of consistently high payouts from these but we remain open to feedback.

For both Bounties and Solo Combat Missions, the changes will be carefully examined throughout the following days and weeks to review their effects and allows time for feedback.

Next Steps
Next, we'd like to carry out plans to improve the pay from other elements of Combat, including Combat Bonds and Anti-Xeno combat. More information on these can be expected soon in a post similar to this one. The changes are likely to happen before the end of this year and are likely to be the final ones before 2021 where we'll continue by moving onto other areas of gameplay.

Thanks as always for your support and feedback!

o7

I think now would be a better time than ever to bring up the removal of bounty caps rewarded upon killing player with more than 2 million cr bounties. This would validate PVP bounty hunting as currently the only PvP viable ships face upwards of 4 million cr rebuys for at most a 2 million cr bounty. It's very un-abuse-albe because players already pay the bounties they have when they are scanned and sent to a detention center. I would love to see it come about and validate lawful PVP
 
I dont see the diference befor and after combat balance ??? Its same... killing the pirate for "elite" rating was about 2-2,5 mil, and its same now ... So what is changes ?
 
After doing a bit of Bounty Hunting in a Haz Rez, I still feel like it needs to be bumped up to reach what you would get from Core Mining (if they intend to have Core Mining on the same skill/reward level as Bounty Hunting (imo combat is more skillful). In the time I felt I would have earned around about 30-50 mill of void opals (at 1.3m/ton) I earned about 8-10 mill Bounty Hunting. Idk maybe Conflict Zones might offer more credits.

Ill do another run and time it this time
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom