What is everyones ideal credits per hour rate?

[Deleted member 182079]

No, that's my personal opinion. I've never had more than a few hundred million at any given time, due to my hobby of collecting one of each ship and then a-rating and engineering them.

I guess I just never needed more than that, but it's not a recent development at least for me. I don't see the point in grinding credits unless I need them for a specific goal. At which point I'll go murder some pirates, or do a few cargo missions in the pleiades...

It wasn't a comment on "the times we live in", just a statement of preference. Or as the cool kids say "don't @ me"

Just in case you may have misunderstood my (admittedly flippant) comment - what I meant was the problem with Elite is that it's too easy to make credits nowadays (as opposed to a few years ago when making 7-8 digits in a single mission/activity per hour was the exception from the rule; now it's vice versa), with the exception of certain roles but that seems to change now.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Also, the cynic in me can't help but think that it is indeed in Frontier's interest to make ships and FCs more easily obtainable. The more ships people can fly, the higher the chances that players spend some money on Arx.

Would at least explain why incomes have risen substantially over the years, while the expense side of things (ships & outfitting) remains untouched.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Also, the cynic in me can't help but think that it is indeed in Frontier's interest to make ships and FCs more easily obtainable. The more ships people can fly, the higher the chances that players spend some money on Arx.

Would at least explain why incomes have risen substantially over the years, while the expense side of things (ships & outfitting) remains untouched.

Thats an interesting thought. So say frontier are working that angle as well as social media and new feature engagement.

Should we just assume then its going to be increasing forever more, so this time next year we'll easily be a billion plus an hour? Should we expect it to ever stop?

 

[Ozric]

My thought would be that people boiling things down to Cr/hr is what got us into this mess in the first place.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

My thought would be that people boiling things down to Cr/hr is what got us into this mess in the first place.

Hey frontier is the one making changes to credit earnings, the discussion is just following through on their initiative.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

At the current trade CG I'm making ~30m per hour which seems a touch high. Somewhere around 10-20m per hour would be fine for me with one off high earners now and then. But then I've never really been into the Cr/hr thing.

 

[Miklos Atreides]

Thats an interesting thought. So say frontier are working that angle as well as social media and new feature engagement.

Should we just assume then its going to be increasing forever more, so this time next year we'll easily be a billion plus an hour? Should we expect it to ever stop?

This is about to find the sweet spot in attracting players to the game, because progression and rewards is pretty quick and keeping players in game that begin to doubt that there is any challange anymore for them.
I personally believe there is some point where things are better changed and balance is a higher value and attracting more players than following that path you lined out.

regards,
Miklos

 

[lordzaz]

I don't see the problem with massive c/ph oppurtunities, everything could be buffed to the point where a casual player on a couple of hours a week wouldn't be turned off by the grind to get anywhere money-wise.

You need a grind element in progression games like this, it gives a sense of achievement, but there are already so many grindy elements to Elite that I think we could stand to remove it from credit making. What difference does it make to anyone else if a player is able to get a Conda in a short period of time ? None.

Having access to all the ships is really just another starting point, pilots still need to learn and understand how to build and fly them and therein lies some of the games depth. Let players have their credit making fun and not make it a necessary evil or struggle, but a joy to see your finances grow exponentially.

Side note, bounties need a further invcease IMO, as fun as combat is you can still make as much or more in one min/max short, non-mission trading trip for minimal effort as you can in an hour of pew pew-ing pirates.

 

[goemon]

My thought would be that people boiling things down to Cr/hr is what got us into this mess in the first place.

i don't think so.
my bubble account is for BGS manipulation and testing - so its playstyle is not at all cr/h bound. especially on that account i get a good feeling how the overall payout increases. it's not an increase for cr min/max activities only.

 

[Ozric]

Hey frontier is the one making changes to credit earnings, the discussion is just following through on their initiative.

i don't think so.
my bubble account is for BGS manipulation and testing - so its playstyle is not at all cr/h bound. especially on that account i get a good feeling how the overall payout increases. it's not an increase for cr min/max activities only.

I'm not talking just about this. More what I meant was that years ago when people started comparing how many Cr/h they could make with each combat vs trade, was what started the battle of the payouts. Which were left unchecked and just increased upon, getting more out of hand and out of sync with things like fuel/repair/restock/ship prices. And possibly worst of all, is the disregard for rank thresholds changing.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Should we just assume then its going to be increasing forever more, so this time next year we'll easily be a billion plus an hour? Should we expect it to ever stop?

Well, it's been steadily increasing since release.
1.0ish it felt like 5-10M/hour was the most they'd allow
By 2.2ish this was definitely up into the 30M/hour range ...
... and just before Beyond 3.3 released core mining it was up to about 100M/hour
The most recent rebalance looks to be targeting about 200-300M/hour, if not a bit more.

Since the increases have been going on long before Frontier have had any significant cosmetics to sell, it's probably not related.

Of course, something else that's been steadily increasing since release is the amount of money you need to buy everything in the first place.
1.0ish a billion credits would get you one of everything with cash to spare
By the time 3.3's ship selection was done and module choice extended you'd need closer to five billion for that (plus lots of materials, which add even more time on)
Carriers have obviously put another chunk on top of that so for a full fleet, a fully equipped carrier to put them on, and a few months upkeep, you're now needing about 12 billion credits.

Arguably the aim is to keep the "time to one of everything" reasonably constant, so you're not trying to get a carrier and an engineered 40-ship fleet with the earning rates present in 1.0 for a 16-ship (mostly cheap smalls) unengineerable fleet.

Obviously there's going to be more of this in future.

 

[Old Duck]

In my opinion, payout should scale with rank. I know it's a little bit gimmicky, but on the other hand, a movie star can sell junk jewelry and candles for a ridiculous price while the kid next door gets a buck, so reputation does equate to value. Chris Evans could probably pick up a rock off the ground and sell it on EBay for $100 just because he's Chris Evans, whereas if unfamous I take a gold watch to the local pawn shop, I'll be lucky to get $50.

This would prevent Helpless Penniless noobs from getting their Anaconda in a day while allowing Elite players to rake in the credits like they should be able to, and it would give purpose to these ranks as well.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Thats an interesting thought. So say frontier are working that angle as well as social media and new feature engagement.

Should we just assume then its going to be increasing forever more, so this time next year we'll easily be a billion plus an hour? Should we expect it to ever stop?

I could well be wrong on this but my view is that there's a new generation of players in the pipeline that grew up with games that are much more forgiving in terms of difficulty curve but also more generous when it comes to rewarding the player - look at the Forza games - after almost every race you get showered with free cars and other bits and bobs for that sweet dopamine kick.

Personally I don't particularly enjoy the "high sugar content" aspect of many modern games and prefer slow progression curves (or simply remove progression altogether and focus on skill and/or the experience itself, which is why I enjoy sims a lot), but Frontier as a business need to be mindful of that.

Elite is still a niche game with a steep learning curve, and achieving anything takes a lot longer compared to other games, but I can totally see that edge it still has eroding further. By how much I have no idea but given the recent tweaks we can see what general direction Frontier is taking.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Well, it's been steadily increasing since release.
1.0ish it felt like 5-10M/hour was the most they'd allow
By 2.2ish this was definitely up into the 30M/hour range ...
... and just before Beyond 3.3 released core mining it was up to about 100M/hour
The most recent rebalance looks to be targeting about 200-300M/hour, if not a bit more.

Since the increases have been going on long before Frontier have had any significant cosmetics to sell, it's probably not related.

Of course, something else that's been steadily increasing since release is the amount of money you need to buy everything in the first place.
1.0ish a billion credits would get you one of everything with cash to spare
By the time 3.3's ship selection was done and module choice extended you'd need closer to five billion for that (plus lots of materials, which add even more time on)
Carriers have obviously put another chunk on top of that so for a full fleet, a fully equipped carrier to put them on, and a few months upkeep, you're now needing about 12 billion credits.

Arguably the aim is to keep the "time to one of everything" reasonably constant, so you're not trying to get a carrier and an engineered 40-ship fleet with the earning rates present in 1.0 for a 16-ship (mostly cheap smalls) unengineerable fleet.

Obviously there's going to be more of this in future.

Okay sure, well i guess i am projecting a bias in my own view on the topic..

That the game.. should at least take itself seriously.

With current earnings the way they are, the costs for all but the big 4 and carriers are a complete joke. Its humor not real.

... id like to concede, but no.. because there are mechanisms we discussed in earlier posts that provide mechanics so that earlier balanced content as well as newly introduced and balanced content could coexist and still provide a gradual experience. There's a bit of inevitability considering frontier and all but at the same time one shouldn't give up if its possible.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

I could well be wrong on this but my view is that there's a new generation of players in the pipeline that grew up with games that are much more forgiving in terms of difficulty curve but also more generous when it comes to rewarding the player - look at the Forza games - after almost every race you get showered with free cars and other bits and bobs for that sweet dopamine kick.

Personally I don't particularly enjoy the "high sugar content" aspect of many modern games and prefer slow progression curves (or simply remove progression altogether and focus on skill and/or the experience itself, which is why I enjoy sims a lot), but Frontier as a business need to be mindful of that.

Elite is still a niche game with a steep learning curve, and achieving anything takes a lot longer compared to other games, but I can totally see that edge it still has eroding further. By how much I have no idea but given the recent tweaks we can see what general direction Frontier is taking.

When i first processed this stuff going on in 2016 was exasperated because:

- Simple communication, if not built in game systems to add dopomine to partial progressions would have also solved the problem without having to resort to invaliding credits. Its industry standards too.. frontiers approach is arguably less common. Actually i don't know of any other game that simply gave up without saying a word (or building a certain missing feature) and just turned the system off as an answer to feedback.

- Frontier seem more professional than "gamer". While they may have not noticed at the time, things like "Dark Souls" were becoming increasingly popular, and arguably mainstreaming gaming can at least identify again with challenge. The need for casual is for more the absolute mainstream, teenagers playing mobile apps and grandmothers playing warcraft etc. Elites offering hasn't reached out that far, where the game nerfing did.. imo anyway. It doesn't match.

EDIT: How hard would it have been for frontier to just go in and add the sparkles like everyone else?

 

[Deleted member 182079]

I reckon a lot of that has to do with how the game is designed 'under the bonnet' i.e. leaning heavily on proc-gen and a complex BGS, both of which can yield unexpected results due to its complexity, and cause limitations in terms of what they can add to it. Comparing it with games like Dark Souls (which I love by the way) is a bit unfair imo as that is a 'hard-coded' world (struggling to find a better term for it), i.e. essentially a single player game despite the multiplayer component it offers.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Actually, the biggest faceplam when this all started was..

So many people had actually made it through. While there was a demographic who liked whining and asking.. it didn't make sense because maybe half the players at the time, maybe more? had gotten their heads around progression.

It just didn't feel right to because you can! It was possible! All you had to was change your thinking and expectations.

"But but but.. i did it.. so did all these other people.. we're helping people when they ask.. but you just turned it off!? WHY!? Just educate people." They never did and just turned it off. Side effects of the community team not playing the game until Arthur i think.

 

[Bigmaec]

Min-max I'd say 100 million / hour,

for things like mapped lasermining or stacked wing massacres in a 4-wing.

Normal without min maxing about 50-60 million.

Newcomers should have the ability to get a big three in a reasonable time frame for example.

 

[Vetinari]

Trade - 10-25% Profit with occasional 40-50% Gold Rushes.
Combat - About 50% the new payouts, probably less to start, tagging a few ships for an Asp is just daft, paid more for own rank than for enemy rank, with bonuses for certain types.
Explo - About 10% of what it is now.
AX - Nothing, coz its cruel and vindictive, leave the poor creatures alone!

Make the rest optional, either from buying Credits through limited gameplay earned ARX only or from missions or from somewhere, just give me the chance to have a hard game if I want one.

Not popular Im sure. But it is in spirit with original Elite and the original vision of ED.

 

[Zieman]

Newcomers should have the ability to get a big three in a reasonable time frame for example.

But what is a reasonable timeframe?