Rabid Okapi is right. If we got a big 15 animal aquatic pack that would be cool but would make me conclude we will never see aquatic animals again. The fact that we got 4 tells me to expect future packs to have both aquatic and terrestrial animals.
Aviaries: what are you expecting
- Thread starter Spiderhawk
- Start date
Then what would be a solution in your opinion? Allocating additional human resources to this game does not necessarily mean hire more devs, even though that can certainly end up being the case. When the roster for the base game was conceived, I'm fairly certain a much larger team was assembled, otherwise the game would have taken 5 or 6 years, and we definitely know that was not the case. More human assets means higher DLC cost, and that is fine with me, and I hope that is the case with a large number of the almost three million costumers that have purchased this game by now.
The expectations are at times high, and that only speaks to the volume of trust deposited in the incredible team behind Planet Zoo. However for me, I would consider an unbelievably high expectation for this game to ask for every single bear species in this beautiful planet, because we know that is not what you will find in zoos. I would think that having every wolf in existence added to this game would constitute another unrealistic expectation. As much as I love big cats, to repeatedly ask for more sub species of lions and tigers would definitely be considered a high expectation. To think that a full marine DLC focusing on species mostly found in dedicated aquariums like Sharks, Manta Rays, Octopus, Sea horses, Walruses, could at some point be included in this game, is in my humble opinion a high expectation, based on how much is still missing from the zoo world.
I do respectfully disagree that having the expectation of not having to choose between a parrot or a macaw, a toucan and a hornbill, a vulture and an eagle, a pelican or a duck, a Kookaburra or a Cockatoo can be considered high. Most zoos do not have two species of elephants, or something like a Formosan bear and Himalayan brown bear, two wolves who are virtually identical might be something difficult to find, but I think that most zoos have more than four bird species, in fact, I'm almost certain they do. I just looked outside my window and saw a Peacock, a goose, mallard duck, a very annoying rooster, pond heron that eats all of my fish, cormorant that enjoys using my lake deck, and a woodpecker that is destroying one of my favorite trees. Maybe I'm just spoiled to be living in sunny South Florida, and have the great misfortune of being visited by all this birds. I find them responsible for my incredibly high expectations, can't help to love them.
For the record, I have never said we will never receive aquatic animals again, or than a bird DLC would keep Frontier from adding birds in the future, I stated nothing of the sort. However each animal takes a spot in the DLC, whether they walk, crawl, swim, fly, they will substitute something else. So when I keep on reading in this forum the magical phrases of at a later point, in the future, when all the basic features are added, Planet coaster had theirs at the end, there might be an animals only dlc. All beautiful ideas, reminds me of when I was a child, and my mother would tell me, "You can have that toy next time, just not now" "Well mom you did eventually get me a toy, but by my count it should have been a few hundred of them" Now many decades later, (more than I care to count) it is difficult for me to believe that again. Because let us say than in two years, December 2022, Frontier shocks the world and releases the ultimate animal pack to silence the world, a full unprecedented 12 species all animals. Ok, but what about the other 50 that kept on getting postponed? ( I wrote 50 to be gentle, I'm thinking more like 100, but in all fairness, and to keep the expectations from reaching that dangerous high point)
Why would it work like that? And I'm willing to bet a pretty respectable sum that you will not get an additional 11 species of deep swimming animals (that is what they call them right?) unless the say, to hell with the zoo, and this is now Planet Aquarium. Then I'm sure you will see the other 11 animals, but you will end up with an unfinished zoo game and a barely started aquarium one.
Birds are the most important group of animals, to me. Having aviaries in PZ would mean very much to me, but I am being very hesitant in my hopes and expectations. Flight mechanics might not even be possible as far as i gather, and if they make birds of flight tied to exhibits, then i don’t see much appeal, both in gaming experience but especially educational.
The flying is not the problem, is the barrier system and the calculations needed for the animals to realize each allocated space.
So, is this maybe a good way to do aviaries?
Create trees specifically for the birds, with perches (a suitable branch can be a perch). The trees can be put anywhere within an aviary. Birds will fly from perch to perch or sometimes hop on the ground (since not all species do this very often.)
This way you don't have to program in the "netting" or "roof" as a constraint for bird flight.
This is consistent with the bird's I've seen in aviaries. They don't fly around all that much, just from branch to branch or station to station.
I would think this would be far easier to program than "here's a space with a roof and the animal can fly, swim, or hop anywhere in it." The constraints are the landing points: ground, perch, or also maybe even a fence railing that lines a path. And if not too difficult, flat rocks.
Yes? No?
Create trees specifically for the birds, with perches (a suitable branch can be a perch). The trees can be put anywhere within an aviary. Birds will fly from perch to perch or sometimes hop on the ground (since not all species do this very often.)
This way you don't have to program in the "netting" or "roof" as a constraint for bird flight.
This is consistent with the bird's I've seen in aviaries. They don't fly around all that much, just from branch to branch or station to station.
I would think this would be far easier to program than "here's a space with a roof and the animal can fly, swim, or hop anywhere in it." The constraints are the landing points: ground, perch, or also maybe even a fence railing that lines a path. And if not too difficult, flat rocks.
Yes? No?
Then what would be a solution in your opinion? Allocating additional human resources to this game does not necessarily mean hire more devs, even though that can certainly end up being the case. When the roster for the base game was conceived, I'm fairly certain a much larger team was assembled, otherwise the game would have taken 5 or 6 years, and we definitely know that was not the case. More human assets means higher DLC cost, and that is fine with me, and I hope that is the case with a large number of the almost three million costumers that have purchased this game by now.
The expectations are at times high, and that only speaks to the volume of trust deposited in the incredible team behind Planet Zoo. However for me, I would consider an unbelievably high expectation for this game to ask for every single bear species in this beautiful planet, because we know that is not what you will find in zoos. I would think that having every wolf in existence added to this game would constitute another unrealistic expectation. As much as I love big cats, to repeatedly ask for more sub species of lions and tigers would definitely be considered a high expectation. To think that a full marine DLC focusing on species mostly found in dedicated aquariums like Sharks, Manta Rays, Octopus, Sea horses, Walruses, could at some point be included in this game, is in my humble opinion a high expectation, based on how much is still missing from the zoo world.
I do respectfully disagree that having the expectation of not having to choose between a parrot or a macaw, a toucan and a hornbill, a vulture and an eagle, a pelican or a duck, a Kookaburra or a Cockatoo can be considered high. Most zoos do not have two species of elephants, or something like a Formosan bear and Himalayan brown bear, two wolves who are virtually identical might be something difficult to find, but I think that most zoos have more than four bird species, in fact, I'm almost certain they do. I just looked outside my window and saw a Peacock, a goose, mallard duck, a very annoying rooster, pond heron that eats all of my fish, cormorant that enjoys using my lake deck, and a woodpecker that is destroying one of my favorite trees. Maybe I'm just spoiled to be living in sunny South Florida, and have the great misfortune of being visited by all this birds. I find them responsible for my incredibly high expectations, can't help to love them.
I’m not of the opinion it needs a solution. Do I want more animals? Absolutely. Love the game. Is that possible? Seems like it isn’t quite possible at the moment with wanting new features, building pieces, uniqueness, and all other demands. We paid for a base game and I loved that base game. Anything else they give the consumer is icing on the cake(and money in their pocket of course) at this point, and I’d love just about any and all DLC.
I’m just certain that saying hire more people to give me what I want is a bit entitled. We are free to voice our wants, but telling Frontier to hire more people or comparing them to grade schoolers is a bit much. It’s like telling a university to hire more professors because your child wants to take courses they don’t offer and expecting them to do so. There are more things for Frontier to worry about when considering hiring new people.
If you’re expecting or think that there will be more than 50-100 birds cause so many zoos have birds, I think you will be disappointed.
And I get that you, and others, greatly enjoy them, but another reason zoos have so many a birds is the space requirements compared to the bigger ticket animals. I’m sure people would love a zoo with two elephant species. It’s not as though birds are everyone’s favorite animals. It’s fantastic you have such a passion for them.
I enjoy birds as well, but zoos have hundreds of reptilian species as well, and some people want reptiles. People want all sorts of animals, and I think the requests or expectations are getting out of control.
I imagine they will add 3-5 animals to each DLC when new mechanics are done being introduced. If not, well...I’ll still buy the DLC and be happy with what I get.
Based on what I know, they have been working on it since before the base game was released, and still continue to do so. So I would think extremely difficult, but not impossible because they would not be working as hard as they are on something that can not be added to the game. Definitely it seems more troublesome than their deep swimming animations.
Oh they ARE working on it? Whaaat
I'm curious about this, too
A while back I proposed something very similar to this, there have been a multitude of discussions here in reference to it. At this point the route chosen would have already consumed considerable resources and it is not likely to be changed in my opinion. I do know for certain they are not exhibit animals, but as far as the level of animations in comparison to other habitat animals we have in game, that is anyone's guess at this point.
One thing to consider, based on what you wrote, not all birds behave in the same manner, in fact most of them interact with their exhibit in completely different ways. I was part of one of the largest avian zoological projects in North American history. The American Banker's Family Aviary, Wings of Asia, located at Zoo Miami, is the largest open-air Asian aviary in the Western Hemisphere, and presented during its construction a great number of challenges because of the great variety of birds being displayed in it and how totally different from each other they were as far as exhibit behavior. There are currently over 400 birds in that aviary, representing over 80 species. I spent a considerable amount of time at the San Diego Zoo before embarking on this great project just trying to understand the immense variety of behaviors that I was supposed to cater to.
So no, is not as simple as just flying from one perching station to another. Many birds, specially the little ones you will find soaring at visitor level, and often spending a considerable amount of time in low branches. Other species like storks will prefer canopies and might soar/fly at high altitudes. There are birds that will spend most of their time on the ground, and will sporadically hop and fly short distances (similar to the flamingoes in the game) other birds will have odd behaviors, and rituals, this can be quite complex. When I was designing the aviary, great emphasis and funds were placed on the underwater viewing station, and at first I was clueless as to why focus on fish and turtles on an aviary, what was the point? However, I soon learned that some of the duck species and other bird species in the aviary dived, and it was amazing to see them in action underwater. My point here is that, it is far more complex than just flying from perching station to station, there are number of variables and behaviors to be accounted for. But yes it is possible, and if done correctly, could definitely be the right compromise in the game.
Again I think you have misunderstood me for the second time, lol, but no worries, I do write a lot, so some things might get overlooked. I'm not suggesting that Frontier hires more devs, even thought they are perfectly open to the idea as stated by Chantee in a previous thread I created. What I suggested was to allocate a couple of more devs already at frontier and that have experience with the animal models to further bulk the roster in the game. The compromise here would be that future DLCs that are bigger than four animals and commissioned a higher number of resources to create, would cost a little more.
An example, the current Aquatic DLC has 4+1 animals at $9.99 (using the USD price point to simplify it) an alternative DLC that would have included 7 habitat animals plus 2 exhibit ones would not have been an unreachable or unrealistic expectation with a few more resources devoted to it. The price could have been 16.99 usd, an insignificant amount of money for most adults, and children I'm assuming still would have to go thru their parents, so I hardly think that a few dollars more would have made a difference. The game and all its DLCs are still completely undervalued. Maybe the money difference would not have been substantial, but the three extra habitat animals and one exhibit animal would have made a world of differences.
As far as comparing Frontier to grade schoolers or being entitled for suggesting they add more resources to the game at a higher price point, you lost me there, not sure where you got that from, but it is not what I wrote.
Not my place to comment on it, at least in detail. But yes, it has been on the works since before the base game was released, at least in concept, research and theory. In recent times, they definitely seemed to have come very close to finishing what they started. Based on what I know it would not surprise me for it to be the next DLC. Even though if it is going to be another four birds, I much rather they take their time and release it when they have more to offer. That is just my opinion, it would be better received then.
While most people on this thread might pay more, the thread does not represent the majority of consumers. Maybe they would not pay an extra 7-10 dollars for a pack. I would, but I’m not willing to throw around how inconsequential doubling DLC prices would be for adults.
And where do they pull these resources from to nearly double the animal output? Those working on Bug fixes? Building pieces? Diving/flying/climbing mechanics? Take devs from another game because you think this game matters more?
They just move enough human resources to research, create rigs, illustrate, and the sound department to double the output? I have a feeling that might impact development in other areas.
The grade school comment was in the announcement thread. Perhaps I did misunderstand, but you stating “adding more Human Resources to the game” seems more synonymous with “hire more people” than it does with “move resources around”.
There's also the performance issue to consider - no point in having a 100 more species if no computer can run the game properly and conceivably diving and flying would introduce even more navigation calculations to a game which is already very process heavy. Doesn't mean we can't want it but it is another element that Frontier have to balance alongside marketing, finances and dev resources. The discussion on wanting more clone animals also tends to ignore this point (for the most part). I would love many more species and birds are high on my list but I'd rather get a really good system and a few of them than a lot of them and a franchise market that can't run.
I think you definitely did, my comment there has nothing to do with that. But I do understand that some players do take a bit far, not passing any judgement. But I try to keep it objective and reasonable. My only suggestion was to consider moving resources around for at least one larger DLC, try it out. The price point is still not significant, double the price would definitely be a problem if we were talking about the gaming equipment as an example. But a few dollars more for something that comes every four months, and gives so much more in return, is it really that much of a big deal?
The resources come from where the same team that worked on the base game, and if it makes sense economically, everything else falls into place. That is a concept that some in this forum never seem to grasp, Frontier has to see the results, financially speaking for them to dedicate more resources to the game, it is that simple. My understanding is that the last two DLCs did not do as well as expected, a major complain has been the lack of animals and volume of content, not the price point.
I have never understood why this is an issue with so many, but then again the technical aspect of the game is still something I continue to learn. In addition I play with a close zoo, only in ultra settings, as I do try to dedicate the maximum amount of performance to the graphics and animals. I have been able to include up to 600 animals (every species currently in the game) without any visible lagging or serious performance issue. So a 100 species if I was to keep the animal specimens at a relatively low number should have no meaningful impact, and work just fine. I think that when you do take the game's pathing system and visitors out of the equation the performance enhancement is substantial. That is a shame because, I do perfectly understand that for most people this is not a logical compromise. For me is a non issue, but even if I was a player that had trouble keeping every animal species, having the choices available would be beneficial, as not every zoo has the same species in display.
If this doesn’t mean add more people to the game, then well, okay I guess. Seems like you were critiquing when the birds would come out and said more resources need to be added, not moved. But if you didn’t mean that, okay.
And not everyone plays on a closed zoo on a system that doesn’t experience lag. You’re tailoring your argument based on your system, how you play, and the animals you want. Frontier has to cater to all types of players, systems, and animal lovers, not just closed zoo, high spec bird lovers.
If it made sense economically, they would have already done so. If Frontier could make larger packs, at a higher price point, appease their audience, and improve their finances, I am fairly certain they would do so.
Somewhat tired of how “simple” and “easy to grasp” all your points are.
Best of luck in your endeavors for all the birds.