Mixed feelings and thoughts about the Aquatic DLC.

I will start with the positives, the scenery and construction pieces are absolutely amazing, and exactly what we needed in this game. The amount of flexibility with these pieces is something that was currently missed with the previous DLCs. All of the scenery pieces truly complement the zoo vibe Planet Zoo should always have been after. The animals were beautifully done, they just keep on getting better with each DLC. Their animations are superb as well, very smooth transitions, both in land and water for each species. Animal movement is another area of improvement with this DLC. Excellent job.

Now comes the heartbreaking part at least for me, because it is truly a deal breaker. Many have complained about the murky new glass barriers, and yes that definitely should be improved, but is not the biggest issue for me. The depth requirements for the deep swimming animations are extremely disappointing. Basically all of the new animations are useless to me, because there is no way that I will built exhibits with that much depth, even for the Seals and Penguins. The Giant otter and Caiman are the two biggest disappointments, I have designed exhibits for both species in real life and the requirements in the game are beyond comprehension. There is nothing in the zoo world like that, so not clear where did Frontier got their reference from. An optimal design for both of these species, will have the top water mark to be at the visitor's eye level, maybe a little higher depending on the exhibit. The maximum depth of the habitat's pool should not extend more than two feet below the bottom of the Plexiglas barrier. Ideally it should be at the same level as where the visitors are standing.

So now I'm forced to choose between being able to enjoy swimming animations and realistic animal behavior in the game, against having a zoo that is aesthetically pleasing, in scale and is not cartoonish. I can not compromise on the feeling of realism that building in scale provides me, since I would no longer enjoy the game, so I'm now forced to opt out of the swimming animations. Hope at some point in the future this is addressed, because as it stands it is very unfortunate.
 
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Now comes the heartbreaking part at least for me, because it is truly a deal breaker. Many have complained about the murky new glass barriers, and yes that definitely should be improved, but is not the biggest issue for me. The depth requirements for the deep swimming animations are extremely disappointing. Basically all of the new animations are useless to me, because there is no way that I will built exhibits with that much depth, even for the Seals and Penguins. The Giant otter and Caiman are the two biggest disappointments, I have designed exhibits for both species in real life and the requirements in the game are beyond comprehension. There is nothing in the zoo world like that, so not clear where did Frontier got their reference from. An optimal design for both of these species, will have the top water mark to be at the visitor's eye level, maybe a little higher depending on the exhibit. The maximum depth of the habitat's pool should not extend more than two feet below the bottom of the Plexiglas barrier. Ideally it should be at the same level as where the visitors are standing.
I've just made a Seal enclosure and it's honestly not as bad as it seems. When I did it I thought it wasn't deep enough but turns out I dug to about 2680 or something when they wanted like 300-400.
 
I've just made a Seal enclosure and it's honestly not as bad as it seems. When I did it I thought it wasn't deep enough but turns out I dug to about 2680 or something when they wanted like 300-400.


The seals and penguins are a matter up for debate, and definitely comes down to preference. A tank/habitat for seals that has a maximum height of 10 feet is definitely not unusual. The minimum depth in the game for the animations to activate is 13.1 feet, not a big difference. The king penguin is a whole different matter, you would not find anything with this depth anywhere, is just not realistic, but again not the animal that I'm having the biggest problem with.

The giant otters and caimans at 13.1 feet of depth is definitely a problem, 6 feet for the otter would be ideal, even 8 feet I could live with if it was completely necessary, but 13.1 is just fantasy, might as well built a floating island zoo. The caiman should be at around 4 to 5 feet maximum, anything else is ridiculously exaggerated.
 
Only thing I’m disappointed in is the caimans, how they only tolerate 2 per habitat. I know they don’t need that much space but I think they could be cool if another pair were allowed to live with them. Other then that I’m liking the new additions.
 
I agree, the depth requirements really made me disappointed and it takes out all the realism. I can even understand that they wouldn't be able to do all the animations, but just swimming at the surface is something I don't understand. Let's see if Frontier will be able to change that...
 
Boi you're making up problems
I wonder, have you even read the OP?

How is trying to adjust to reality making up problems? Really, it's not that the 'boi' is throwing an unjustified tantrum and saying everything regarding the DLC is bad. He made it quite clear that it's mainly the water depth requirements that troubles him, and with good reason. A person doesn't need to read too much nor visit hundreds of zoos to realize that 4m depth for dwarf caimans and giant otters is otterly ridiculous. I think Danny and those who have noticed this problem are aware that this is caused by in-game limitations to perform proper diving animations at shallow waters. But it's absolutely fair to stand up and voice what clearly is a reasonable remark that would make the game adjust to reality.

I wonder if this was again a questionable decision or if it really is impossible to make deep swimming happen at 1-2m depth. Anyhow, it is worth mentioning that, if possible, it should definetely need adjustments, even if we could live without them being made.

And btw, it's not just 2-3 zoo nerds noticing that. In just one day, at least 2 content creators have encountered the dilemma of whether to have a very unrealistic otter enclosure with diving animations or a natural, realistic enclosure with animals just swimming on the surface.
 
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To me the depth requirements are fine.
I'm still more confused about the large requirements some of the land animals have, but I've moved well ahead of that, and am not bothered by it anymore.
 
I wonder, have you even read the OP?

How is trying to adjust to reality making up problems? Really, it's not that the 'boi' is throwing an unjustified tantrum and saying everything regarding the DLC is bad. He made it quite clear that it's mainly the water depth requirements that troubles him, and with good reason. A person doesn't need to read too much nor visit hundreds of zoos to realize that 4m depth for dwarf caimans and giant otters is otterly ridiculous. I think Danny and those who have noticed this problem are aware that this is caused by in-game limitations to perform proper diving animations at shallow waters. But it's absolutely fair to stand up and voice what clearly is a reasonable remark that would make the game adjust to reality.

I wonder if this was again a questionable decision or if it really is impossible to make deep swimming happen at 1-2m depth. Anyhow, it is worth mentioning that, if possible, it should definetely need adjustments, even if we could live without them being made.

And btw, it's not just 2-3 zoo nerds noticing that. In just one day, at least 2 content creators have encountered the dilemma of whether to have a very unrealistic otter enclosure with diving animations or a natural, realistic enclosure with animals just swimming on the surface.

I have read it all
It's a game, OP's nitpicking
 
Good, I respect your opinion.
Now on to facts:
It's a game, a game about making zoos, right? Please, tell me about a single zoo that has 4m depth underviewing areas for otters or dwarf caimans and I'll be happy to move on.

There's no zoos like that. But that's what's crossing the nitpicking line for me. Devs probably couldn't make diving work in shallower water. There's 101 unrealistic thing in a game and this one is the least problematic
 
There's no zoos like that. But that's what's crossing the nitpicking line for me. Devs probably couldn't make diving work in shallower water. There's 101 unrealistic thing in a game and this one is the least problematic
I actually asked this question to Chante, as I was struggling with it during the EA testing. The choice wasn't a technical limitation by what I've been told ( as, the animals are capable of swimming underwater in shallower water if there's an area that is 4m deep) but that this was done intentionally to keep the message of healthy animals as a forefront, and that they wanted to reflect how animals should be treated in zoos.

Now, I do not mind this limit when it comes to the seal and penguin, but I do agree that the limit is a bit farfetched when it comes to the dwarf caiman and the otters. If that limit could be reduced to 2m, that would suffice for me.

However, I do not think it's your call to say this is nitpicking or not, or moreso say that the OP is making up problems. You clearly don't build hyper realistic exhibits and that's fine, you're completely entitled to do that. But there are others that are, and they are facing issues that are important to them. I don't play Franchise, but that doesn't mean that I go around and say that people are making up problems when they have issues with certain choices in Franchise. Just my two cents here, I don't see this as unreasonable feedback.
 
There's no zoos like that.
No more to be said, really.
If we cannot build a single zoo with a realistic otter exhibit, that's a flaw. Not the worst one, but still.
I really don't get this denial to see the game being improved, whenever possible. Its not like people who 'nitpick' don't play or buy the game or just want to bomb with criticism, most likely the opposite.

EDIT: Thanks fo your testimony, @Iben. So this doesn't seem to be a limitation then, and more a game decision which could be subject to (hopefully) change.
 
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I actually asked this question to Chante, as I was struggling with it during the EA testing. The choice wasn't a technical limitation by what I've been told ( as, the animals are capable of swimming underwater in shallower water if there's an area that is 4m deep) but that this was done intentionally to keep the message of healthy animals as a forefront, and that they wanted to reflect how animals should be treated in zoos.

I wouldn't mind if it was caused by technical restrictions, but that is an unfortunate design decisions that gives me flashback to the polar bears rediclious space requirements. If Frontier wants to teach us players about animals and zoos, they could start with fixing the countless errors and inaccuracies in the zoopedia, instead of putting arbitrary limits to the players creativity and experience.

And if they are done with this, they could ask some real zoologists why otters can be kept in a rather shallow tank. Giant Otters are very common in floodplains (the Pantanal), which are by definition often less than 4m deep...
 
Yes so it is the same thing as with the polar bear....And if that is any indocator, I am not expecting improvement on this. Polar bear requirements were halved, but it is still so ridiculously big, that alot of players around here admitted that they are not using polar bears just for that specific reason.
 
Yes so it is the same thing as with the polar bear....And if that is any indocator, I am not expecting improvement on this. Polar bear requirements were halved, but it is still so ridiculously big, that alot of players around here admitted that they are not using polar bears just for that specific reason.

Yeah I’m never gonna use em. It’s not that I don’t agree that certain animals should be more of a challenge to care and provide for, it’s just that it doesn’t mesh well with how the rest of the game works around that. Guests are tricky things...when you create a beautiful vista for them as well as a specific viewing platform, let’s say, and they throw nothing but shade and don’t use your viewing area at all 😅

I know people choose to ignore the guests but they’re telling you how the the code in the game works essentially. So I can’t. I want to know if what I’ve made is working.
 
The choice wasn't a technical limitation by what I've been told ( as, the animals are capable of swimming underwater in shallower water if there's an area that is 4m deep) but that this was done intentionally to keep the message of healthy animals as a forefront, and that they wanted to reflect how animals should be treated in zoos.

So like the polar bear fiasco, Frontier think they know more about animal welfare and what zoos should be doing than actual real life accredited zoos do...
 

Chante Goodman

Community Manager
Frontier
I actually asked this question to Chante, as I was struggling with it during the EA testing. The choice wasn't a technical limitation by what I've been told ( as, the animals are capable of swimming underwater in shallower water if there's an area that is 4m deep) but that this was done intentionally to keep the message of healthy animals as a forefront, and that they wanted to reflect how animals should be treated in zoos.

Now, I do not mind this limit when it comes to the seal and penguin, but I do agree that the limit is a bit farfetched when it comes to the dwarf caiman and the otters. If that limit could be reduced to 2m, that would suffice for me.

However, I do not think it's your call to say this is nitpicking or not, or moreso say that the OP is making up problems. You clearly don't build hyper realistic exhibits and that's fine, you're completely entitled to do that. But there are others that are, and they are facing issues that are important to them. I don't play Franchise, but that doesn't mean that I go around and say that people are making up problems when they have issues with certain choices in Franchise. Just my two cents here, I don't see this as unreasonable feedback.

I would like to add to this - we always look to push the conservation message in Planet Zoo, so we keep that at the forefront of our game. However, there are technical limitations that come with deep swimming too; to ensure an animal swims correctly, there needs to be enough space and depth for it to do so. I am happy to pass along feedback regarding the amount of water required for the animals, but the requirement is currently there for both reasons, not just the conservation message behind it. Thanks for providing your feedback on this so far!
 
Thanks a lot for jumping in and clarifying the whole thing. I hope all the fantastic work that has been done to achieve deep swimming animations goes even further to overcome these limitations, as long as you find it worthy, of course. If it ends up being impossible then that's totally understandable and we can move on.
 
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