After playing cyberunk, and watching the Odyssey reveal, I'm now concerned about Odyssey...

[galahad2069]

Shield Suits will be OP compared to Hull Suits

Prepare to die instantly after shield drop in poor quality instances as soon as someone walks closer than 500 m to your character.
It will be called 'shadow walk'.

 

[milligna]

Nobody is going to be building relationships with NPCs unless your requirements for "relationships" are really simple.

What game has ever had NPCs you could "build relationships with," anyway? AI has always been garbage with extremely basic scripting.

You only get a vague illusion of it with something like the Inigo mod when one guy obsessively spends years crafting thousands of scripted reactions.

 

[galahad2069]

If you can't find a real RPG, some times you just have to improvise...

Nice, it seems they finally got that model D83 Swedish sure-grip suck machine that Frank Drebin ordered.

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

Nobody is going to be building relationships with NPCs unless your requirements for "relationships" are really simple.

What game has ever had NPCs you could "build relationships with," anyway? AI has always been garbage with extremely basic scripting.

You only get a vague illusion of it with something like the Inigo mod when one guy obsessively spends years crafting thousands of scripted reactions.

Just to clarify, I'm talking about business relationships between my CMDR and the NPC's, nothing more personal than that, no flowers wine and smoochie, that's not the sort of game I'd play...

As for what other games had or have relationships with NPC's, first one that springs to mind is Civilisation 4 onwards, which has different tones of interactions with rival leaders based on the dynamic you have with them. Elite has a reputation system, dock somewhere you are allied and the traffic controller is all chatty, there is one imperial ATC who often tells me "we are honoured by your presence" - yet I still have to request docking permission ;-/ . So there is no reason the mission givers, or indeed any NPC affiliated with a BGS faction couldn't be all friendly or openly hostile depending on how you are doing with their faciton - "AH! Milligna - great to see you again, what can we do for you?" to "You've got a nerve showing your face around here, so what harm does Malligna wish to do us today?" and many many shades in between.

 

[Ydiss]

Nobody is going to be building relationships with NPCs unless your requirements for "relationships" are really simple.

What game has ever had NPCs you could "build relationships with," anyway? AI has always been garbage with extremely basic scripting.

You only get a vague illusion of it with something like the Inigo mod when one guy obsessively spends years crafting thousands of scripted reactions.

I reckon the vast majority of people playing computer games are reasonable enough to only expect simple relationships with npcs. We're talking about games. In that obvious context (or any), is it necessary to point out that video games don't contain AI complex enough to be capable of real human relationships?

Isn't that obvious?

 

[Gauntlet]

I found out at some point that the more realistic NPCs look and act, the more obvious their artificial character becomes to me. It may sound contradictory at first, but the more I have to fill the missing realism in my brain, the more these NPCs start to feel alive to me.

The 'Uncanny Valley' effect vs Imagination

 

[Sublime]

TBH it’s pretty concerning that they have released so little concrete and detailed information with only a few months until release. Especially as they are now asking for $$.

I wouldn’t say this type of secrecy builds hype. Quite the opposite, what are they hiding? Do they feel that if they give out too much information not as many people would pre-order?

I would expect at this point in the development they should be able to show some gameplay examples of a surface mission. Like actual gameplay of someone doing a mission. Taking off from a station, landing on a planet, leaving the ship and doing an FPS mission. When they said they were going to show a gameplay video that’s kind of what I was expecting..

 

[TScal12]

TBH it’s pretty concerning that they have released so little concrete and detailed information with only a few months until release. Especially as they are now asking for $$.

I wouldn’t say this type of secrecy builds hype. Quite the opposite, what are they hiding? Do they feel that if they give out too much information not as many people would pre-order?

I would expect at this point in the development they should be able to show some gameplay examples of a surface mission. Like actual gameplay of someone doing a mission. Taking off from a station, landing on a planet, leaving the ship and doing an FPS mission. When they said they were going to show a gameplay video that’s kind of what I was expecting..

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Furthermore a preorder without a release date is real strange

 

[Straha Yeagar]

Fortunately, like most other aspects of the game, it does look as if one can completely ignore FPS combat if they wish.

 

[avow555]

Comparing Cyberpunk to Elite is beyond drivel...

 

[Susanna]

Haven't you ever taken eleven rounds to the head then? It happened to me once, and I went to the pub after I'd plucked the rounds out - no lasting damage. Nobody called me a bullet sponge.

In case you're wondering, I'm not taking the pee - I just wrote a really random answer. Apologies mate

LoL you do exactly the same as I do... Write a load of garbage and hit the send button! Well done mate! Nicely done!
At least you put an apology in as well. Maybe I should learn from that... But nah...

 

[Alien]

I have played a bit of Cyberpunk, I know, don't play on launch day... But after playing it, I was a bit disappointed that the NPC's are very much "bullet sponges", like emptying a pistol clip into an NPC's face doesn't kill them, and I know about the idea that it's an RPG so there will be character stats to build up, better weapons to purchase and enhance through crafting... But still; after ten consecutive headshots, nothing should still be standing, let alone still be charging and shooting at me...

And this relates to Odyssey, how?

Simples - having seen the Odyssey reveal, there was quite a bit of FPS combat shown, and at one point a character light up blue, with what was presumably a shield, and in general the footage showed hostile characters still advancing despite taking direct hits from heavy fire. So even from that short clip, it looks like Odyssey NPC's, and presumably players, are going to be more akin to battlemechs than soldiers in terms of their "hitpoint" capacity, and that is frankly, extremely disappointing. I'm also a bit dismayed that there were no RPG style moments in the reveal, for example there was no dialogue interaction between CMDRs and NPC's, this points to Odyssey being what many feared, "space legs" (Odyssey) being little more than a shallow gunfest :-(

One of the biggest things I wanted for "space legs" was the roleplaying game side of it, say like GTA-V and mass effect. I wanted to walk in the starports, build relationships with the NPC's, negotiate with them even if that was through dialogue trees like cyberpunk, I wanted to get immersed in the galaxy and sidetracked on little sidequests, I wanted stealth options like splinter cell games, I wanted sharp tactical combat like the original operation flashopint or its progeny the ARMA series. I did not, and still do not want another run and gun shooter. And given that the mainstay of the reveal at the game awards was just that, run and gun bullet sponge combat, with a few landscape images, I'm now tepidly ambivalent about Odyssey, indeed, I still haven't pulled the trigger on the pre-order.

Personally, I think I need more information about the non combat aspects of the out of the cockpit gameplay that will be in Odyssey, and maybe others feel the same? Maybe they only had that couple of minutes of "air time" and went for the flashy action packed dramatic first person combat content for maximum impact in that narrow timeframe? Maybe there is a world of "immurshun" waiting to be revealed to us? But I think I'll not be the only person asking themselves is a run and gun shooter what I want to purchase? And if that is what Odyssey is, will it's new terrain / skybox rendering tech be important enough to me to buy Odyssey? And more poiniently, if after two and a half years the only new stuff is run and gun shoot shooty that I'm not interested in and some prettier, but still desolate, planets to fly / drive across, is Elite still a game for me.

There is only one thing that can answer those questions, some noncombat First Person gameplay reveal(s) -so what do you guys have up your sleaves to wow us with @Arthur Tolmie @Bruce Garrido @Stephen Benedetti And to the general forum, was there anything I missed from the Odyssey reveal video that would address the concerns I've raised in the previous paragraphs?

I can understand your concerns. I have them too. I am not a first-person shooter gamer. I don't play games that have FPS gameplay. I don't do combat in Elite Dangerous. Yet I am excited for Odyssey. I will give the FPS combat a go in the Alpha and Beta, it's possible I will like it and "get gud". I understand not liking bullet sponges, it's also one of the things I noted with Cyberpunk after watching people stream it.

I am expecting to do more exploration gameplay with Odyssey. I am expecting that I'll love flying around, landing and walking around. I'll be looking for desert planets that look like Tatooine and ice planets that look like Hoth. Yes, I am a Star Wars fan. There's more to Odyssey than shooty shooty pew pew on foot.

Would I like to see more of the non-combat side of Odyssey, yes, but we still have two dev diaries to go, the next one being about combat, so the last one hopefully will be about things other than combat? Saving the best for last maybe?

Most of all, I am reassured that you have set your expectations down a tad or two. Most people don't do that. They place unreasonable expectation on Frontier that are not what Frontier have shown us, and then rage when what they expected doesn't materialise. You have the right approach, and I hope others follow your example.

Stay positive.

 

[metatheurgist]

I think if we were going to get more sophisticated NPC interaction we'd already have it by now. There's nothing stopping us from having convos in ships, more complex missions where you interact with ships in USS and contacts in stations now. I hope to get those in the future (across the board, not just in odyssey) but I expect that will be an entire expansion. This expansion I expect is just the mechanics of getting legs in.

 

[Susanna]

I just think the combat mechanics are more finished and ready for prime time than NPC dialogue, biological sampling, scavenging, etc.

Building a polished first-person shooter that features variable gravity and whatnot is obviously the hardest and most complex part of the update to introduce with the myriad of different animations, physics, UI stuff... Combat probably relies on all the fundamental mechanics that the rest of the update uses, in the most complex and intensive way. Makes sense that that would be what has the most resources piled into it first, and therefore is in a more presentable state sooner.

The other stuff presumably builds on the same on-foot mechanics, minus the gunplay and with a few minigames and selection screens added.

We've seen distant glimpses of terminals in spaceports that show the wrong images and are generally a bit glitched. We've seen the sampling tool, but they've gone out of their way not to show it being used on actual organics.

Which all points to that stuff just not being in a finalised, public-ready state yet. I'm sure that doesn't mean the update is all combat, it just means that's the first part ready because it's the hardest part to get right.

I'm glad you have made this point because I feel it's a very valid one. Given that the gravity on the low atmosphere planets will be generally low (probably circa 0.3-0.5g) I'm expecting most of the walking to be bouncing along like Neil on the moon... Not the earth like gait that we have seen in the trailers to date...
So will combat be a (arguably laughable) bouncy castle affair or just more earth gravity pew pew?
I for one am way underwhelmed atm...

Yeah save your investment in the game. If you expect anything more than an fps version of horizons its only your time and kittens on the chopping block. Its frontier developments. You need to think differently, to match how they do.

Think about every single headline feature for elite frontier has ever released. What percentage of them was below expectations. Not even close to meeting them. Its been so long the only thing you can do is delete the white knights, wonder how frontier can act like they do, and accept the reality of each patch as it is.

And yes, the number of new features that have entirely missed the mark is surely breathtaking. From CQC, tele-presence (cmdrs firing at cop npc's and firing off all your heat sinks) to the AX missiles (that were immediately nerfed 50 fold after the weekend Goid bunfest)... The number of these incidents is too many to recount! Fdev have a knack for underestimating the ED community by a country mile!

So my expectations of Odyssey are rock bottom. Simply because of the years of experience I have with FDev's lack of imagination, buggy coding and mismanagement of the role out of new features.

Bouncy Castle Pew Pew anyone?

 

[Susanna]

Just to clarify, I'm talking about business relationships between my CMDR and the NPC's, nothing more personal than that, no flowers wine and smoochie, that's not the sort of game I'd play...

As for what other games had or have relationships with NPC's, first one that springs to mind is Civilisation 4 onwards, which has different tones of interactions with rival leaders based on the dynamic you have with them. Elite has a reputation system, dock somewhere you are allied and the traffic controller is all chatty, there is one imperial ATC who often tells me "we are honoured by your presence" - yet I still have to request docking permission ;-/ . So there is no reason the mission givers, or indeed any NPC affiliated with a BGS faction couldn't be all friendly or openly hostile depending on how you are doing with their faciton - "AH! Milligna - great to see you again, what can we do for you?" to "You've got a nerve showing your face around here, so what harm does Malligna wish to do us today?" and many many shades in between.

May I mention the ATC dialog from your own FC... Keep expectations low people... Two years they worked on the FCs...

 

[Susanna]

I reckon the vast majority of people playing computer games are reasonable enough to only expect simple relationships with npcs. We're talking about games. In that obvious context (or any), is it necessary to point out that video games don't contain AI complex enough to be capable of real human relationships?

Isn't that obvious?

Perhaps that's why people play the forums instead
Just saying!

 

[Susanna]

TBH it’s pretty concerning that they have released so little concrete and detailed information with only a few months until release. Especially as they are now asking for $$.

I wouldn’t say this type of secrecy builds hype. Quite the opposite, what are they hiding? Do they feel that if they give out too much information not as many people would pre-order?

I would expect at this point in the development they should be able to show some gameplay examples of a surface mission. Like actual gameplay of someone doing a mission. Taking off from a station, landing on a planet, leaving the ship and doing an FPS mission. When they said they were going to show a gameplay video that’s kind of what I was expecting..

This be cautious people... Fdev have a great hype train but very little in the delivery dept.

 

[Ydiss]

Perhaps that's why people play the forums instead
Just saying!

Elite and cp2077 are both way more fun than their respective forums!

 

[Danieros]

The video doesn't show combat from 100% shield to 0% health, only brief moments of different combat cuts. It's too soon to know how spongey we will be.

Considering how engineering made our ships spongey, like 5-minutes-of-continuous-damage-to-kill spongey, I do think we will get very spongey... unless we get proper shield counters for suits. Or the shield engineering for suits introduces proper weaknesses - something that doesn't really happen for all those shield boosters you fully engineer.

 

[dm0815]

One of the biggest things I wanted for "space legs" was the roleplaying game side of it, say like GTA-V and mass effect. I wanted to walk in the starports, build relationships with the NPC's, negotiate with them even if that was through dialogue trees like cyberpunk, I wanted to get immersed in the galaxy and sidetracked on little sidequests, I wanted stealth options like splinter cell games, I wanted sharp tactical combat like the original operation flashopint or its progeny the ARMA series. I did not, and still do not want another run and gun shooter. And given that the mainstay of the reveal at the game awards was just that, run and gun bullet sponge combat, with a few landscape images, I'm now tepidly ambivalent about Odyssey, indeed, I still haven't pulled the trigger on the pre-order.

Given the procedurally generated nature of this game, this is a somewhat hard thing to do without giving those NPCs the same canned dialogue options. Makes them feel shallow, too. It would be cool if they at least do this with the Power Play leaders. But why would those characters talk to lowly pilots like us? (Let's just forget the countless wars won in their favour and other god-like feats done for them ...)

Frontier talked about hubs where players could meet. I assume the character interaction will be - for the most part - a "multiplayer only" feature. Doesn't help the PvE or Single Player community, but there you go ...