ANNOUNCEMENT Game Balancing Pt.3

[mkizub]

Such game balancing does not makes us closer to real economic.
With reward around 400k per kill of elite NPC in combat, one will have to kill 1000 enemies to buy a top-graded (not engineered) ship, plus the same for top-graded modules.
It's not a real economic, its a mindless grinding.
Also, you have to kill 100 elite NPCs per hour (less the 1 minute for each) to make it as profitable as painite mining (assuming that after rebalansing it will yield 40 mln/hour).
This is unrealistic, even is you will one-shot those 'elite' NPC - you have to fly to him first.

Frontiers do not understand this simple truth - 'rebalancing' will not fix the major problem of ED - lack of reality.
There are no goals to reach in the game. After one has got a top-level ship / elite rank - there is nothing to do.
One type of 'balancing' will be make as hard as possible an acquisition of top-level ship / elite rank (like it's so hard for combat rank and combat money making).
But such grinding will force players to stay away from this activity.
Ok, another 'balancing' is to make it easier to get money/rank (like it's so simple for mining now).
But in this case people will get cap level fast enough, and will leave the game, since they have nothing to do in it any more.
And the only difference of 'well balanced' game - how fast players will leave. Too hard grinding or too easy leveling - and players will leave shortly.
'Good balance' - players will leave in about 3 month. Make a stack of levels (good ship, then engineered ship, then anti-xeno build, fleet carrier) - players
will stay for 1 year. That's all.

Anything beyond this (actually single-player game) will require to add real economic. In which resources, ships, plants, do not appear from nowhere.
Where money are used for exchange, not as a goal. Where one can establish a colony far away in space, and resources for that colony may be mined, or bought for money. But the money have to be acquired from selling others resources, not from nowhere. But in own colony a player faction can set whatever rules they want. Naming star systsms and planets, defining trade rules, build plants and define type of economic, define hostile or allied factions, even text and language of greetings during station landing. And rewards for assassination shell be defined by colony owner and bounty shell be taken from guild's pocket.
PP or BGS shell be just alternatives of making own colonies. So, player factions may change same rules for owned star systems (the longer they own those systems - the more control they have).

 

[Hellrider]

With reward around 400k per kill of elite NPC in combat, one will have to kill 1000 enemies to buy a top-graded (not engineered) ship, plus the same for top-graded modules.
It's not a real economic, its a mindless grinding.
Also, you have to kill 100 elite NPCs per hour (less the 1 minute for each) to make it as profitable as painite mining (assuming that after rebalansing it will yield 40 mln/hour).
This is unrealistic, even is you will one-shot those 'elite' NPC - you have to fly to him first.

Frontiers do not understand this simple truth - 'rebalancing' will not fix the major problem of ED - lack of reality.
There are no goals to reach in the game. After one has got a top-level ship / elite rank - there is nothing to do.
But in this case people will get cap level fast enough, and will leave the game, since they have nothing to do in it any more.

Why not take mission with 500k per ANY kill, and assasinations? Remember, that you can too stack missions, so with luck more then 3m per kill. Combat just has the strongest corelation between money and your ship and skill, you can mine in cobra. You can't solo 10 pirates/hydra in unengineered cobra.
"rebalncing" making by some players- 10m per pirate "cAuSe 1Oo kILLs to tOp sHiP, and, and, and mining is still good".
No goals? Yes, this game hasn't goals, AS INTENDENT, player make own goals. This isn't next rpg like "safe world and kill dragon". Problem isn't in lack of understanding truth by devs. Players just don't understand, what game they are playing This isn't next grind game "achive all ships and change game".
If ANY player think, that "after all ships 0 things to do" and change game I can say 1- bye bye, this isn't game for you.

 

[MawerNeis]

I want to say something to the balancing. I am playing this game now for about one year; so you can see me as a relative new player.

A lot of my personal goals are fulfilled (e.g. biggest ships, engineers, guardian blueprints, ranks and so on). One of my last goals is of course the carrier and for this I need cash.

Finally for me it is not relevant how to make money. I like mining, combats, killing thargoids and missions likewise. But your balancing frustrates me. Important is for me how much money I can make PER HOUR. I had the chance to make money by Borann A2 – and yes, maybe it was too easy. I had the chance to make money by deep core mining low temp diamonds and simple mining double Painit hotspots later on. And now? So from Borann with about 400 Mill/hour, down to Painit with 200 Mill/hour to EVERYTHING else with about 20-60 Mill /hour now.

So let me say so, you increased things like combat from non-non-non-profitable to non-profitable and you decreased profitable things like mining to non-profitable. Conclusion, all non-profitable. Again maybe Borann was not fair, but for all the “new” players this is now also not fair.
Maybe you can find a way between with about 150 Mill /hour or so.

 

[Hellrider]

Sure, because new players need 200-400m/h for shiny carrier XD
I love this. "maybe it was broken, by pls frontier, not fix, this isn't fair cause I'm new and I can't earn 400m/h".
You still can earn a lof of money, but I understand. For victims of broken mining which annihilate proper perception all things are "weak", cause carrier isn't doable in 20hrs, and the most expensive ships aren't doable in 2-3hrs. I don't care, that other people farmed money as korean bots, fact, the they did it doesn't mean, that it should be possible for all time.
100-120m/h was doable before combat buff, so if you don't care, what you do take your big, engineered ship and do some pew pew, oh, and take all missions from station (People usually talk, that "it need 1 good system, tools, rng and blah blah blah". I can say 1- if mining doesn't require it why all people mined in ONE triple ltd, why they doesn't mine in own overlaps, or just random pristine rings? ).
I saw screens of people, with 20-30m from only bounty after hour. I know, that 100m from only massacres is doable. I can connect dots. 100-150m/h (maybe more if you are very lucky/have friends/know something what I don't know, (I achieved similar ratio alone, so in wing it could be much, much faster, as should be). And people still complain on "no profitable combat".
If your goal was carrier I have sad message-You had nearly half year with "400m/h way".
Pathethic.

 

[CMDR RuIncognito]

Okay, if any of my constructive comments are considered trolling ... Then I'll write quite directly. The attitude of old players is unacceptable towards new players. There is no balance in the game, by definition it cannot be. This is a mythical thing. Anyone who wants to leave the game will leave under any circumstances. Anyone who likes to stay at least something. These are the nerfs and attitudes of old players that affect players more negatively than good and profitable mining.

 

[Ettanin]

Okay, if any of my constructive comments are considered trolling ... Then I'll write quite directly. The attitude of old players is unacceptable towards new players. There is no balance in the game, by definition it cannot be. This is a mythical thing. Anyone who wants to leave the game will leave under any circumstances. Anyone who likes to stay at least something. These are the nerfs and attitudes of old players that affect players more negatively than good and profitable mining.

It is not intentional game design to be able to obtain an A-rated Anaconda after 8-10 hours of mining or less. FDev fixed that imbalance. It used to take several months to be able to afford one of the top three. Sure, they overshot with the recent nerfs, but it's still faster than classic ED pre-2.0.

ED is primarily a single-player game with optional multi-player elements. If you can't stand being compared to other players or feel inconvenienced and/or uncompetitive due to lack of time or other circumstances, don't play in open.

 

[CMDR RuIncognito]

It is not intentional game design to be able to obtain an A-rated Anaconda after 8-10 hours of mining. FDev fixed that imbalance. It used to take several months to be able to afford one of the top three. Sure, they overshot with the recent nerfs, but it's still faster than classic ED pre-2.0.

ED is primarily a single-player game with optional multi-player elements. If you can't stand being compared to other players or feel inconvenienced and/or uncompetitive due to lack of time or other circumstances, don't play in open.

So I don’t play, they took away super-profitable mining from me! My friends and I play purely solo or multiplayer, not in an open game. Since PVP is not interesting to us in this game. I am fiercely annoyed by such nerfs out of the blue. The game is not positioned as an MMO! What are the nerfs? !!!

 

[Ettanin]

So I don’t play

Then don't. Your choice. Take it or leave it.

 

[CMDR RuIncognito]

Then don't. Your choice.

i mean i don't play open game ... so what kind of nerfs are we talking about? Why don't you sit there and kill each other in an open game, what does mining have to do with it?

 

[Ettanin]

what does mining have to do with it?

Other question: Does every game have to have an easy way out? ED is more than just mining. If you like mining, you can still do it. You just can't get overly rich quickly by it anymore.

 

[CMDR RuIncognito]

If you like mining, you can still do it.

I never said that I like mining
I said that I like the profit from mining

You just can't get overly rich quickly by it anymore.

I do not understand the essence of this problem? since the rapid enrichment of the players does not affect any in-game processes.

ED is more than just mining.

Well, to do the rest of the game, you first need to make money. And without huge profits from mining, this process simply slows down to awesome ...
.

 

[Ettanin]

Well, to do the rest of the game, you first need to make money. And without huge profits from mining, this process simply slows down to awesome ...

Maybe the game isn't intended for you at it's intended pace then.

 

[Santa de Lapland]

Anything beyond this (actually single-player game) will require to add real economic. In which resources, ships, plants, do not appear from nowhere.
Where money are used for exchange, not as a goal. Where one can establish a colony far away in space, and resources for that colony may be mined, or bought for money. But the money have to be acquired from selling others resources, not from nowhere. But in own colony a player faction can set whatever rules they want. Naming star systsms and planets, defining trade rules, build plants and define type of economic, define hostile or allied factions, even text and language of greetings during station landing. And rewards for assassination shell be defined by colony owner and bounty shell be taken from guild's pocket.
PP or BGS shell be just alternatives of making own colonies. So, player factions may change same rules for owned star systems (the longer they own those systems - the more control they have).

Player driven economy would force to ignore all npc´s pretty much, but ain´t that the given state already?
Markets or BGS is not affected by NPC´s in any way, they just land on pad and leave with same cargo.

So if some kind of player driven economy is possible (fingers crossed players mining Trit for carrier fuel will be one with right price balance on npc stations from other mineables) I really do hope more.

Also NPC trade could be fixed, in a way, if it would better/much more reflect in markets and npc ships (+cargo) the BGS states/percentages these systems and stations are in.

 

[CMDR RuIncognito]

Maybe the game isn't intended for you at it's intended pace then.

So you and the hellrider allow yourself to kick players out of the game on the forum? By asking similar questions. Moderator can you do something not only with my posts.

 

[Achtung-Goomba]

Well, to do the rest of the game, you first need to make money. And without huge profits from mining, this process simply slows down to awesome ...

No offence intended because you can play the game however you like, but I’m genuinely baffled by that statement. My space-bank balance tends to hover around 150-250 million, once hitting the glorious height of 350m before I impulse bought a couple of new ships that I have no idea what I’m doing with. All that after about a year and a half of just doing whatever I felt like at the time, still mostly flying a DBX, Keelback or AspX none of which is a particularly expensive ship. I’m honestly not sure what I’d do with any extra credits now, apart from waste them on ships I’ll never fly or drinking myself into a stupor when the space-bars (cantina?) opens when Odyssey lands.

All those mega-bucks let you do is exactly the same things you’re already doing, from what I can tell you either enjoy doing those things, or you don’t...

Edit: I’m now tempted to launch the game and check my total playtime so I can work out an approximate Cr-per-hour rate based off my current balance, but I can tell you now it’ll be waaaaaaay behind the ‘meta’ and it hasn’t stopped me having fun. I even still take the AspX mining when I fancy and yes, that’s post nerf... or post-post-nerf if you want to get technical.

 

[Lankspeed]

I am now going to add to the discussion, What are you wallies playing at.

Yes Combat Bonds and Bounties could have done with a boost.

But the trade missions and extra missions offered after doing said missions are RUBBISH as this screen shot shows.

I am used to doing missions in excess of 1.5 Mill so to be offered a preferential mission for 12000 cr is a joke.

 

[CMDR RuIncognito]

No offence intended because you can play the game however you like, but I’m genuinely baffled by that statement. My space-bank balance tends to hover around 150-250 million, once hitting the glorious height of 350m before I impulse bought a couple of new ships that I have no idea what I’m doing with. All that after about a year and a half of just doing whatever I felt like at the time, still mostly flying a DBX, Keelback or AspX none of which is a particularly expensive ship. I’m honestly not sure what I’d do with any extra credits now, apart from waste them on ships I’ll never fly or drinking myself into a stupor when the space-bars (cantina?) opens when Odyssey lands.

All those mega-bucks let you do is exactly the same things you’re already doing, from what I can tell you either enjoy doing those things, or you don’t...

Edit: I’m now tempted to launch the game and check my total playtime so I can work out an approximate Cr-per-hour rate based off my current balance, but I can tell you now it’ll be waaaaaaay behind the ‘meta’ and it hasn’t stopped me having fun. I even still take the AspX mining when I fancy and yes, that’s post nerf... or post-post-nerf if you want to get technical.

It's good that it didn't stop you. And such a nerf basically hinders me. Despite the fact that in principle I already have everything I need except for the little things ...

 

[pault]

I am now going to add to the discussion, What are you wallies playing at.

Yes Combat Bonds and Bounties could have done with a boost.

But the trade missions and extra missions offered after doing said missions are RUBBISH as this screen shot shows.
View attachment 199753

I am used to doing missions in excess of 1.5 Mill so to be offered a preferential mission for 12000 cr is a joke.

Exactly what I have been saying, follow on missions are bonus missions. Before that would of been 150,000 credits. To prove its broken if you had opened that mission for 10,064, that is the credits you would receive with 2+ for rep, or you can get 10,000 credits and 3+ for reputation, that is totally wrong. It used to be 150,000 and 2+ rep or 100,000 and 3+ rep. There is no financial incentive in cargo delivery missions now

 

[sgto_york]

Is inflating the price of Tritium part of the "balance sheet"?

 

[Achtung-Goomba]

As a little exercise as per my last posting on this thread I've just checked my Inara stats. Total assets are listed as 515,422,620cr and approximate time played is 403hr, which through the magic of mathematics (unless I'm totally thick...) gives us a whopping great grand total of... 1,278,964cr per hour

Guess I was having too much fun to notice I wasn't making bank! I'll probably just have to stay out of financial balancing discussions as I'm clearly so far behind the meta I can't even see it.