Yoga pants and griefing.

Chrystoph

Chrystoph
Crimson Kaim said:
You do seem to understand it better than most but comparing it to bullying is just wrong. On a school yard, bullying takes place without the victim being able to do something about it. There is consequence for not visiting the school yard and being exposed.
Gaming, however, is purely optional and everyone has a choice and can take appropiate actions to avoid unpleasant gameplay (this is subjectively defined and thus, a general objective solution is impossible too). In the case of Elite, players do have the choice of not playing in open but choose PG or Solo instead... Or not play the game at all. Actual and real victims of bullying don't have a choice, griefer victims do.

Or in other words: Video Game Griefing is a first world problem and thus, no problem at all. Players do have a choice and they do know the consequences. There is absolutely no need to waste resources for that matter, especially not if the "victims" are rarely the ones that play b the (game-)rules.

Lastly, griefers follow the gamerules, period. Most of the "victims" do not. And bullying doesn't exist in Elite. It simply doesn't even to a degree where you could consider calling it like that.
And no, this is not subjectively defined. If it would I could potentionally call anything bullying.

It's a video game, as you have realized, so treat it like that. If the griefer's victims don't treat a video game as a video game then that certainly isn't the problem of the griefer.
Oh, and the reason why harrassment isn't reported is because FDev barely takes action on reports of any kind. Maybe cheaters but that's it. Combat logging, harrassment, exploiting etc. Doesn't get punished. Noone reports because quite frankly, noone takes FDev seriously when it comes to consequences and this has been tested by the griefer community multiple times with the same result.

Griefers are good if you look at it rationally, without emotion.
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Your entire post is a fallacy in that griefers are not playing the game. They are using the game as a tool to create emotional distress in the person they attack. The fact that you went into the level of detail you did to defend the activity means you know it, and that means you refutation is, bluntly, a rationalization.

As to motivations, since there is no in game value in their activities, and people do not play games without a motivation unless they are compelled, the motivation must be outside of the game. If they are not being bullies, then mayhaps you'd care to explain the motivation which they are acting upon?

Oh, as a final thought, and for reference, the definition of Bully:
www.merriam-webster.com

Definition of BULLY

a blustering, browbeating person; especially : one who is habitually cruel, insulting, or threatening to others who are weaker, smaller, or in some way vulnerable; pimp; a hired ruffian… See the full definition
www.merriam-webster.com www.merriam-webster.com
bul·ly | \ ˈbu̇-lē
, ˈbə- \
plural bullies
Definition of bully
(Entry 1 of 4)
1a : a blustering, browbeating person especially : one who is habitually cruel, insulting, or threatening to others who are weaker, smaller, or in some way vulnerable
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It would seem at least one of our planet's definers of meaning disagrees with you.
 

Screemonster

Screemonster
Chrystoph said:
Your entire post is a fallacy in that griefers are not playing the game. They are using the game as a tool to create emotional distress in the person they attack. The fact that you went into the level of detail you did to defend the activity means you know it, and that means you refutation is, bluntly, a rationalization.

As to motivations, since there is no in game value in their activities, and people do not play games without a motivation unless they are compelled, the motivation must be outside of the game. If they are not being bullies, then mayhaps you'd care to explain the motivation which they are acting upon?

Oh, as a final thought, and for reference, the definition of Bully:

It would seem at least one of our planet's definers of meaning disagrees with you.
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lmao did you just go digging up sources to throw your armchair psych nonsense at a post made nearly two years ago
 

VR StarLightPL

VR StarLightPL
Now now, let's keep it on topic:
1603813972-cn19467426.jpg

Now does it look like a griefer to you, ha? Don't see griefers everywhearrr :D
 

VR StarLightPL

VR StarLightPL
Karsdorp said:
I have been looking through all the replies to this thread, and I am a little bit frustrated, to be honest... There are many articles that don't have an attitude to this particular discussion. I registered here in order to find assistance. I really want to start practicing yoga, but I don't know what to start with. Do you have any experience in this regard? I have a few friends who regularly meditate. They say that it is affecting their mental condition in the proper way. One of them suggested me to visit this curious resource yogapractice.com and find all the useful information I need. Can you recommend me any other identical sources? Thank you in advance.
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That's the kindest spam bot ever :love:
 

Commander Biscuit

Commander Biscuit
Sooden said:
I watch a lot of elite steams, closets I get to seeing real people: P don’t like to go near them in RL. With DW2 underway It’s been interesting to watch the gankers (not all gankers grief).

Ganking has a place too, in fact, I been happily playing a new account in open only, to see if there really is an issue. There was little point in going into open with my main account and seeing what happens… Being elite in combat, even in a shield-less eagle seems to put half of the gankers off (not that the ranks shows your fighting skill, but does show you have been around a while)

First thing I noticed was, if I’m not at a CG/ Starting area or Engineer, then I seem to encounter no hostiles. Even went looking for them (not to snipe, but to see if I got targeted – I don’t have a good ship anyways) but was hard to instance half the time, and if they where sniping another streamer, they would be gone as soon as the streamer left open.

If your gonna play in open, some people will hunt you down, just for the luls or for a deeper reason.

If you’re in open, you need to learn you can’t be a’ carebear’, all safe in space. You must become elite! Well, at laest know how to put on the correct modules and high wake… and luckily, there are people out there willing to show you the error of your ways… but what I have notice is an underlying reason and it’s not about getting GUD

Yoga pants… yes, if you’re a group making yoga pant merch, playing with your passive social group and happen to venture into open, you may be destroyed… the gankers must show that they are better than you, and that you are space scum (It really eats at their soul, in the same way some streamers go nuts at gankers, the gankers seem to be hurting on the inside). Seem a bit hyperbolic, but this seems to be a psychological drive.

Most of the yoga pants ‘hide’ (not really hiding, they just don’t have time for the riffraff) in groups, so the gankers need to feel they are still able to attack them (but they can’t directly). This is done by clubbing seals and ganking any pilot that looks like a 5 second kill (not all gankers/PvPers are like this, infact, I had some good fun with ‘The Code’ 3vMe, they would have let me go if I didn’t try to run :p, that was a different acount)

There are streams out there that are ‘salt’ mining, well they think they are, but most of the salt is in their mind. I have watch hours of it, and no salt. Sure they manage to kill some easy targets, but these targets say nothing back, probably just getting on with their game. But the ganker feels they have got some salt… it quite interesting.

They are role playing their own salt mining, creating personalities for their random victims and generating reactions that never happened… then they all get excited and feel they have achieved something… well, each to their own, we all like to RP, even if the salt miners pretend they don’t (well they ironically RP in a sarcastic way, to belittle people that RP… yet they have built their own world in their head)

Some of the Gankers are happy with their RP, It fulfills their needs , their need to destroy possible yoga pant wielding private groupers, by swathing random open player targets… but some get frustrated, and start to act beyond reasonable game play.

What would this ‘beyond reasonable’ game play be?

Such things like joining a multi crew, to attack the host. Just to teach the host a lesson for being in open and offering up their ship to random player. Damaging the opportunity for others… and the reason they do this? Not to really teach them a lesson as such, but to show who is in control, who calls the shots in game play, as they can’t get into the yoga pants, they need to find the next best target… anyone willing to participate in the community in a constructive way (such as big events, sharing ships via crew).

Such griefing (yes, these are not gankers any more) is aimed at a mindset and not a player type. The griefer needs to ‘harm’ the yoga pants, who they find distasteful.. who they have a burning hatred for, but cannot harm (as they are in private). The Griefers are lashing out, trying to make change in a destructive way because they can’t make positive action, like a vandal.

Such people hide behind… ‘it’s just a game and anything goes in open’… yes it’s just a game, but they are looking for any hole that lets them cause problems….

Yes, it is just a game, but to such grifers its also a tool, to try and upset the people they dislike on a personal level, hate because of who they are and how they act… and the frustration they have, watching these yoga pants having a good time , safe from gankers and grifers, well it just drives them nuts.

It’s just a game guys, let them have their yoga pants :p

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'care-bear', what they like to call the people that really wind them up... if you have grifers call you one, you know you have really hurt them, on a very deep level :)
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I play in open, bubble only. Last time I encountered a player was Dec 4th.
 

Bottom Hat

Bottom Hat
VR StarLightPL said:
Now now, let's keep it on topic:
1603813972-cn19467426.jpg

Now does it look like a griefer to you, ha? Don't see griefers everywhearrr :D
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I could imagine being griefed by that, especially if sat in economy on a long haul, or just on the average bus or train. I also have an unpleasant suspicion that there may be odour involved as well.

My mind is griefed already. Thanks mate :(
 

TheChosen

TheChosen
Seems to me a lot of people are speaking about something without much personal experience. I used to be a big time griefter/ganker whatever you wanna call it in Ultima Online.. Why I did it? Because the AI in online games doesn't offer much challenge.. hunting real people was always unpredictable with a lot of 'reaction' from those I hunted down. It was also part role playing becoming a notorious character that everybody feared. It was not about hatred or bullying or whatever.. at the end of the day realize this actually really is just a game. The hunted in a video game always have many choices... unlike real victims in real life.
In Ultima Online everything was in open but here they can:

a) Play solo
b) Play private
c) Play open & defend themselves
d) Rebuy and try again

What do I do these days? I just play solo unless I am in my G5 FDL.. I have no interest in being somebody else's content and I also see no value or interest in ganking in this wonderful game that offers a whole lot more than just PvP... Ultima Online was different that it was much more personal (you would loot the poor soul's corpse while their spirit cursed you next to it). It was like opening Christmas presents.. you never knew what goods you might find.. sometimes you got real lucky and hit the jackpot.

Are there griefters out there with serious psychological problems? Yeah.. sure.. But most I've met in online games are just playing another aspect of the game. They are pretty cool people once you get to know them. Some I met in Ultima Online are still my RL friends to this day.
 
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Gunther_Bladderburst

G
You can be whatever you want in open, it’s not like it is insanely risky. True you should be careful visiting some parts but it ain’t terribly dangerous.

I am really not getting people talking about open like it is detroit or johanesburg...

I got ganked a couple of times. Never felt like the other guy was some sort of crusty basement incel sociopath looking to inflict the most suffering online before commiting suicide by police.
 
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