Viper IV - Opinions?

[Madrax573]

Can you easily and quickly solo High CZ each time in a Viper IV like you can in pretty much any medium ship? Can you kill Hydra? Can you beat any Medium-Large ship in PVP? Doubt so. Viper III is fastest ship in the game. Even under the weight, it will leave MkIV in dust and outmaneuver it at every turn. This is the only advantage of any small ship can have in combat. Vulture is much tougher, and x2 C3 hardpoints is a serious argument, but still it is far from even PVE meta or being efficient much, it's just a better option for small player budget. Haz RES is not really an argument either, since people go there on stock Sideys to make early bank, and learn combat - training wheels.

PvP I don't know as I don't do it. ED isn't built for it IMO.

All the other stuff, yup Viper IV can easily do it.

Talking about small/new player budget yet you pick a ship that cost 2-3x the Viper IV, doesn't handle as well and in PvE the small fast 'advantage' pretty much isn't there as nothing the NPC's can throw at you will come close to beating a V4.

If you want to talk about V3 vs V4 there is only 2 outcomes from that match up. V3 runs away or gets smashed. Simple. Once you start loading up the viper 3 the 'speed advantage' quickly disappears, ask any racer or hooner as they know this very intimately.

The Vulture yes has the higher damage potential vs the V4 but it's bigger (easier) to hit has a crap boost profile compared to V4, meaning it gets outflown easier and the effects of 2x the weapons will easily make up for any damage advantage.

If you want a small ship that CAN seriously kick ass and fly like a deamon then the Viper V is a superb ship for it. Vulture is also a good ship but IMO the V4 still wins.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

I still have a shieldless Viper 4, originally built for light PvP shenanigans (against a wing of 4 it managed to escape twice, in short succession) but more to withstand an attack as opposed to win engagements. As said before, even against NPCs shieldless is a problem due to the missile spam, and if you run into players with missiles and/or scramble spectrum you're in trouble.

It is pretty good in terms of combat, the primary issues I have with it are HP placements (the ones underneath mainly) and damage output depending on weapons. Against large strong targets (pirate lords etc.) that use SCBs combat can be a chore because you run out of ammo rather quickly, and/or don't do enough damage to drop their shields. I used to have 4 fixed, sturdy (because shieldless) MC's with 3x incendiary, 1x corrosive, and while it can hurt it has its limits.

These days, I use it for ground attack missions, fitted with 4x dumbfire missile racks to take out defenses. Small ship so can land easily, with close to 3k hull it can also last long enough to escape under fire. Major downside compared to the Cobra 3 is speed - the C3 even fully loaded can still do ~600m/s boost, whereas the Viper 4 (or mine, rather - it's not quite fully G5 iirc) tops out at 530/540 or thereabouts. Definitely a problem for PvP when most of your opponents will have faster ships (at least those in mediums).

I much prefer my Courier these days for Open CG CZ combat - speed is important with these ships in order to get in and out of the action fast, and the 3 medium hardpoints allow for some flexibility.

The Vulture is my go-to ship when in comes to dipping my toes into PvP (not that I win, but I don't have to run immediately either). Twin fixed rapid fire phasing pulse lasers are fun on larger targets at least (I'm rubbish when it comes to aiming, but I dislike chaff and the effect it has on gimballed weapons more).

 

[goemon]

I don't understand why so many people love the cobra 3 but hate on the viper 4.

because many people do not take advantage of the viper(s) crazy strong and agile lateral thrusters imho.
i'm saying this as a cmkIII lover and an ex-speedcourier cmdr. if you want a ship which is very agile in all six directions, the vipers are amazing.

still flying my cobras though - but not because they are "better" ---

 

[Cmdr Snuffler]

If you want a small ship that CAN seriously kick and fly like a deamon then the Viper V is a superb ship for it. Vulture is also a good ship but IMO the V4 still wins.

Do you have shares in Faulcon Delacy?

I used to have 4 fixed, sturdy (because shieldless) MC's with 3x incendiary, 1x corrosive, and while it can hurt it has its limits.

That's a lot of thermal damage. Do you not find hulls take an age to take down?
Getting past the SCB is pretty easy with the right loadout. You could try:

Class 1 MC with corrosive
Class 1 MC with overcharged
Class 2 MC with incendiary
Class 2 Beam with thermal vent

All short range...imo best mod for MCs.

To save ammo, which makes the fight a little longer, just use the beam until they fire off a SCB then let loose with MCs.

because many people do not take advantage of the viper(s) crazy strong and agile lateral thrusters imho.
i'm saying this as a cmkIII lover and an ex-speedcourier cmdr. if you want a ship which is very agile in all six directions, the vipers are amazing.

still flying my cobras though - but not because they are "better" ---

Viper Mk3 yes, but the Mk4 is like a tug boat compared to almost all my other combat ships.

 

[Deleted member 121570]

Viper III is fastest ship in the game. Even under the weight, it will leave MkIV in dust and outmaneuver it at every turn

This isn't quite right. I have nothing to say on combat performance tho - I'm strictly arguing about the maneuverability point.

Yes, the Viper 3 with EPTs is fast and awesome. At high speed, it's definitely the most maneuverable around - when you're flying it on boost and using its verts/lats effectively.
Adding lots of weight in the form of components, armour and weapons though will rapidly drop that speed and thruster performance down, impacting on maneuverability. Even so, 650-750+m/s are realistic with non-race builds. Viper 4's gonna struggle to get 550 even stripped, and it's got slightly less rotational ability anyway than the V3.

But...the two ships have pretty much identical boost/thruster profiles, and both can permaboost. So, V4 boosts as long as the V3, and the thrusters accelerate as well as the V3, only with a slower max. speed. V4 will therefore reach its lower max speed (or scooped max) faster, leaving more of that boost available for maneuvering with verts/lats at that lower speed. It's more weight friendly too, so it retains more of its profile with more kit on it. Rotational differences begin to evaporate once you're comparing a near-max V4 with a heavy V3.

So, this all means that if you're flying in the kinda 250-520ish zone - the V4 can use more of it's boost profile to turn, and cos it's going slower - it can turn tighter.
I know you can also get it way tougher with HRPs etc - my racing V4 has nearly 3.5k absolute hull vs my race V3's paperness.

TLDR: Viper 4 is more maneuverable than the Viper 3 at lower speeds.

 

[Phongsalt]

Because probably they never really flew one seriously,I love my Viper MK IV when I take abreak from my mediums.

I don't understand why so many people love the cobra 3 but hate on the viper 4. They're essentially the same ship except the viper is much much better at combat.

As for the OP, I would drop the heat sink for another PDT and drop the beams for anything else. Even rails are better, you won't overheat the viper 4 much with 2 small rails or 2 packhounds (assuming you're not shooting both at the same time). I would also consider replacing one of the packhounds, most PvE targets you can either completely debilitate with 1 packhound mounted or not get anything done even with 2.

I was talking of Cobra iv. Viper iv is a completely different kettle of fish.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

That's a lot of thermal damage. Do you not find hulls take an age to take down?
Getting past the SCB is pretty easy with the right loadout. You could try:

Class 1 MC with corrosive
Class 1 MC with overcharged
Class 2 MC with incendiary
Class 2 Beam with thermal vent

All short range...imo best mod for MCs.

To save ammo, which makes the fight a little longer, just use the beam until they fire off a SCB then let loose with MCs.

I find getting through shields slowly a worse experience than through hull, given shields replenish as opposed to hull. Also, it was more of a meme build to see how it coped - I don't really put too much thought into builds being the most optimised, but I don't really seriously bother with PvP as I realise you'd have to in that area. Having said that though, despite the incendiary effect MCs are crazily OP'd - I'm running a gimballed all incendiary MC Mamba (except one of the small HP's carrying a corrosive one) and it absolutely ravages anything that it encounters (PvE at least, though I think it'd fare decently in PvP also), regardless of shield/hull. It's ridiculous but fun.

 

[goemon]

... the incendiary effect MCs are crazily OP'd - I'm running a gimballed all incendiary MC Mamba (except one of the small HP's carrying a corrosive one) and it absolutely ravages anything that it encounters (PvE at least, though I think it'd fare decently in PvP also), regardless of shield/hull. It's ridiculous but fun.

yeah ... i have a trading corvette running that setup on ligthweight MCs. it's ridiculous!

 

[Cmdr Snuffler]

I find getting through shields slowly a worse experience than through hull, given shields replenish as opposed to hull. Also, it was more of a meme build to see how it coped - I don't really put too much thought into builds being the most optimised, but I don't really seriously bother with PvP as I realise you'd have to in that area. Having said that though, despite the incendiary effect MCs are crazily OP'd - I'm running a gimballed all incendiary MC Mamba (except one of the small HP's carrying a corrosive one) and it absolutely ravages anything that it encounters (PvE at least, though I think it'd fare decently in PvP also), regardless of shield/hull. It's ridiculous but fun.

I run a Chieftan with a similar loadout...great for shield stripping and great if they are running reactive armour, without the thermal res increase.
However, in CZs it's a diff story...I found it incredibly slow to chew through the hull (I think due to their military armour) , so much so that I switched back into my Vulture...which does less dps that the Chief...but takes down CZ targets in a 3rd of the time.
A good few gankers uses this loadout to toast unarmed traders/explorers....which is one reason why on all my ships I have thermal res on shields and hull at around 40-50%

yeah ... i have a trading corvette running that setup on ligthweight MCs. it's ridiculous!

Lightweight on a corvette? Does that really give you that much extra jump range??? Almost like someone driving a large 10 tonne truck and saying they don't want fluffy dice in it because the extra weight affects fuel efficiency...or is their another reason for lightweight?

 

[Oytis57]

Can you easily and quickly solo High CZ each time in a Viper IV like you can in pretty much any medium ship? Can you kill Hydra? Can you beat any Medium-Large ship in PVP? Doubt so. Viper III is fastest ship in the game. Even under the weight, it will leave MkIV in dust and outmaneuver it at every turn. This is the only advantage of any small ship can have in combat. Vulture is much tougher, and x2 C3 hardpoints is a serious argument, but still it is far from even PVE meta or being efficient much, it's just a better option for small player budget. Haz RES is not really an argument either, since people go there on stock Sideys to make early bank, and learn combat - training wheels.

Yes...yes...yes.. and yes,and keep reading Yes for every other argument you can find.About going in HazRes with stock Sidey,I suppose you had too many drinks for Christmas,Happy New Year

 

[Hoshizoku]

The sweet joy of PvE: Every ship is viable, difficulty can be adjusted through ship choice and loadouts.
Fly whatever u enjoy the most..

 

[goemon]

Lightweight on a corvette? Does that really give you that much extra jump range??? Almost like someone driving a large 10 tonne truck and saying they don't want fluffy dice in it because the extra weight affects fuel efficiency...or is their another reason for lightweight?

• lightweight less powerdraw allows me to run a 6A powerplant
• lightweight less distributor draw allows me to run a 6A powerdistributor
• plus the weight loss from ligthweight.

in total that's 2,5 ly and brings up the corvette to almost 30ly laden jumprange and 38ly unladen - perfect for BGS focussed mission trade.

is it much? no ... but as that trading corvette easily dispatches elite missionconda - why not (i have a bit of a fetish to run the most lightweight build of the wrong ship which gets the right job done... shall i tell you about my courier fer-de-lance ...)

 

[Cmdr Snuffler]

Fair points on the light weight Corvette...I only have weapons on combat ships and if I get attacked in my trader I just jump out...allows for more bespoke custom builds for a specific task instead of worrying about weapons and sacrificing some other aspect of the ship.

shall i tell you about my courier fer-de-lance ...)

?! For fun do you rub 5m scoville chilli sauce into your eyes while in SC?

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

I generally don't do this but this is completely WRONG...It most certainly can murder things with abandon. I taught myself how to kill thargoids in a V4.

It's only slightly larger than the Viper 3. Simply one of the most agile ships in the game. Tough as nails and can pack a punch.
Will outfly a vulture, have more 'effects' and will be harder to hit.

Viper 4 is one seriously underrated ship because for some strange reason people look at 1 number stat and put it in a box.

Sometimes I wonder if we're talking about the same ship.

I really hated the Viper 4 but I wanted to love it. It's a bad shield tank, and if you try to armor tank it you'll just end up weighing it down so it flies like a brick. And all that's irrelevant anyway because the CONSTANT module malfunctions on this ship in any meaningful combat were enough to drive me mad.

Maybe as a vet with engineering, in time, I could come to appreciate the Viper 4 but for a new player? You're much better of with something not so...confused about what it's supposed to be. It doesn't have Eagle speed or handling. It doesn't have Vulture DPS or it's tank. It's not better than a Cobra in multi-role use. It's just so....BLAH.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Sometimes I wonder if we're talking about the same ship.

I really hated the Viper 4 but I wanted to love it. It's a bad shield tank, and if you try to armor tank it you'll just end up weighing it down so it flies like a brick. And all that's irrelevant anyway because the CONSTANT module malfunctions on this ship in any meaningful combat were enough to drive me mad.

Maybe as a vet with engineering, in time, I could come to appreciate the Viper 4 but for a new player? You're much better of with something not so...confused about what it's supposed to be. It doesn't have Eagle speed or handling. It doesn't have Vulture DPS or it's tank. It's not better than a Cobra in multi-role use. It's just so....BLAH.

This sounds like "new player talk" to me. Of course hull tanks require engineering to be viable, I wouldn't recommend running one with stock modules, that'd be silly.

Engineered though it is very much a good hull tank - given its size (or lack of) 3k hull points (with 2 MRPs) is pretty decent in my book. As I said, I managed to escape two wing-of-4 ganker attempts in a row (mix of small and mediums including FdLs, the usual) during a prior CG, with about 80% hull intact.

It's also a great multipurpose ship, on a previous iteration of my alt CMDR I used one to travel to Colonia, 40+ LY jump range with all mod cons included. While I love the Cobra 3, the optional internals of the V4 are slightly better, and it's more agile even fully loaded, compared to the C3 (which is faster in a straight line).

 

[Deleted member 121570]

Sometimes I wonder if we're talking about the same ship.

I really hated the Viper 4 but I wanted to love it. It's a bad shield tank, and if you try to armor tank it you'll just end up weighing it down so it flies like a brick. And all that's irrelevant anyway because the CONSTANT module malfunctions on this ship in any meaningful combat were enough to drive me mad.

Maybe as a vet with engineering, in time, I could come to appreciate the Viper 4 but for a new player? You're much better of with something not so...confused about what it's supposed to be. It doesn't have Eagle speed or handling. It doesn't have Vulture DPS or it's tank. It's not better than a Cobra in multi-role use. It's just so....BLAH.

Sorry, I know this is still kinda off topic, but all these misconceptions about V4 flying like a "brick" are nonsense. Put bluntly, if you think this - it's probably you, not the ship, unless you've skimped the distributor down to non-boost levels.

Viper 4 is significantly more maneuverable than the Eagle at lower speed. Like...a lot. Doesn't rotate as fast, but moves way better. Just gotta fly it right.
Nobody mentioned thread being about V4 for new players specifically, so ? Engineered, even just with G5 dirty drags, it's a complete beast.

I've armoured my race build up hugely (which has beaten engineered//EPT Eagles competitively), and can guarantee that it flies nothing like a brick - For example.

Might be worth giving it another go once you've engineered a few mods. It's one of the best ships you can fly, if flying's your bag.
Could even put an engineered prismatic on that build and only lose a couple m/s, for at least 2-3x more shield. Really no need for racing tho.
Really is one of the best small ships imo, and definitely amongst, if not arguably the most agile.

 

[goemon]

its size (or lack of)

also makes it a perfect ship for evasive flying - and a very good guardian ruins and structures ship to find a landing spot anywhere.

 

[Oytis57]

Sometimes I wonder if we're talking about the same ship.

I really hated the Viper 4 but I wanted to love it. It's a bad shield tank, and if you try to armor tank it you'll just end up weighing it down so it flies like a brick. And all that's irrelevant anyway because the CONSTANT module malfunctions on this ship in any meaningful combat were enough to drive me mad.

Maybe as a vet with engineering, in time, I could come to appreciate the Viper 4 but for a new player? You're much better of with something not so...confused about what it's supposed to be. It doesn't have Eagle speed or handling. It doesn't have Vulture DPS or it's tank. It's not better than a Cobra in multi-role use. It's just so....BLAH.

Sometimes I wonder if you know how to fly and engineer a ship,all the rest of your comment is just so...BLAH.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

Sometimes I wonder if you know how to fly and engineer a ship,all the rest of your comment is just so...BLAH.

There's no point because there's nothing I can do to the Viper 4 that I wouldn't be better off doing in a bunch of other ships. Yeah I get it, you like the Mark 4. Well cool, but I don't. And that doesn't mean you have to be all aggro over it.

Do you also spend $50k making that Kia Optima a real killer on the streets? Asking for a friend.

 

[Oytis57]

There's no point because there's nothing I can do to the Viper 4 that I wouldn't be better off doing in a bunch of other ships. Yeah I get it, you like the Mark 4. Well cool, but I don't. And that doesn't mean you have to be all aggro over it.

Do you also spend $50k making that Kia Optima a real killer on the streets? Asking for a friend.

Aggro? But.but...you said it all by yourself,it's ok that someone don't like a ship,it's wrong listing "fake" reasons,It's also obvious you don't have much exeprience..hence learn how to use your tools before spitting sentences out.