Why FDev.. just why make this game so tedious on purpose?

[AkenBosch]

Oh are we back again at what i should do and not do... That is not helpful. And yes, i think a lot of decisions in this game are made deliberately to spread the gametime out.This is not good game design (you can agree or not).

Trying to passively-aggressively lecturing others on what they should find boring or not boring isn't helpful either, and yet here we are, as usual. Both sides do the same thing, arguing goes back and forth, both sides are right in their own regard and wrong about the opposite side, uselessly trying to be less wrong to gain some sort of objective victory over a subjective argument.

And someone (somewhere, in summertime) is Flimley \o/.

There are clearly decisions made to spread gametime out, some of them can be more blatant than others (and annoying as well), but that's something present in one way or another in practically every modern complex game. Aiming to remove "the filler" to get to some idealized "core of exciting gameplay, anytime all of the time" is pie in the sky, and will probably leave you either playing Tetris at max speed on last quarter of screen, or nailing grindcore tracks on Guitar Hero and Beat Saber.

Seriously, there's hardly something more silly than taking a suggestion to play something else more in one's tastes as some kind of personal attack, instead of a suggestion to not waste time and energies with something they apparently aren't enjoying as they would. Endlessly bickering about it will only bring the discussion so far.

 

[Turric4n_ED]

Also in comparision.. this is what feedback without the provocation on this forum gets you:

Comodity Delivery Mission - Deliver all items QoL request

Hey Guys, could we please get a button to deliver / receive all items at once instead of needing to constantly scroll through all the items. This should probably a pretty easy implementation. Just start the button on the maximum possible value instead of zero. Then you still could reduce the...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Nothing.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

That seems a bit of an oversimplification no? I mean, I do not doubt any company structure needs to "tick off to their bosses", that is how most companies work. But at the same time a company gets good results and survives only if the market appreciates and likes their products and those sell reasonably well to start with. I would imagine bosses also have to care about their market and those clients too.

Yeah you're right. Id like to assume that too. Its just the lack of evidence to support... them doing what it takes to actually ensure this outcome... that leaves me thinking that they may not prioritize this. Its not just the fss its with everything.

If they did care, they would make it happen. They don't make it happen, so im inclined to conclude they dont care. How about that?

 

[Kissamies]

You'd find it less tedious if you were better at it.

 

[Turric4n_ED]

You'd find it less tedious if you were better at it.

I do not think i want to master the skill to make a boring grind. So i rather watch a film while doing it and do not care for efficiency. But that is just my way of playing i guess.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Yes, the irony eludes me as much as the humour, I suppose...

No surprise that just posting a video link gets a negative reaction as all it appears to be is "look at my video" rather than imparting any information to a single line of "I Don't Like..."

I'm glad someone finds the game tedious, I'd hate to think that others play for fun, that would be unthinkable!

 

[Viajero]

Yeah you're right. Id like to assume that too. Its just the lack of evidence to support... them doing what it takes to actually ensure this outcome... that leaves me thinking that they may not prioritize this. Its not just the fss its with everything.

If they did care, they would make it happen. They don't make it happen, so im inclined to conclude they dont care. How about that?

Fair enough. I still suspect there is also a strong element of subjectivity in how you feel about it tho. Nothing wrong with it, and each of us will probably have different preferences about what needs to be done in priority etc. That is totally valid.

As for objective measures of the overall market reception we have a few, the overall financial results of FDEV for one or the fact Elite goes on the Steam top sale list every time there is a sale (after 6 years from launch that is still impressive), the more recent absolute historic record of player concurrency in Steam since it was launched in that platform back in 2015, or more generally the simple fact Elite Dangerous appears as a regular in most game press articles about "Top 10 space games" or similar etc. All those suggest FDEV indeed cares about its market and the market tends to agree.

Why then they do not do certain things me or you would like implemented or see as an obvious win? Well, that is down to the always delicate balance between priorities and finite resources. Not an easy balance.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

it’s all about opinions, obviously.

I’ve played this game since 2014, and it is without doubt, the best game I have ever played. No question.

But it’s not perfect...

And there do seem to be two distinct set of players:-
1. Just play, and what comes will come. No grind. No meta-builds, just enjoy the experience, enjoy the process. This is me, and I suspect most of you who have replied to the Op. Entering my 7th year in game, and I play a lot, but still not enough to buy a fleet carrier. This is fine, I love this game, and I love building up to the end game very very slowly.
2. Those who want quick rewards, end-game and PvP. Sack the process, it’s dull, enjoy the meta-builds, fully engineered - because that’s when the fun begins.

Probably - probably - the game isn’t well suited to player group 2, because if your target is end-game, you’ve got one hell of a journey to get there. A journey that might well be considered tedious.

As for engineering being optional. Well, everything is optional in life of course, so let’s not go down that road.
But, if you want to play PvP, then no it is not optional. You need a fully engineered ship (or ships) with lots of credits for rebuys.
This might involve rank progression, missions, material gathering, unlocking engineers, guardians and on...
That takes a lot of time!

So, you might say, well if you don’t want to do that go play something else. But the game is so good, the end-game is so enjoyable, that those seeking it put themselves through all that grind, just to get to the point that they can start enjoying themselves.

I do have some empathy here. I want to go Thargoid hunting, but right now I can’t be bothered unlocking the Gauss Cannons. And until I do, that part of the game is blocked to me.

It CAN be grindy...

I’ll get the popcorn

That is true, all of it imo. The thing which grinds my gears that what (most) of the vocal PvP players ignores is that streamlining the game to get to the Meta PvP ships quicker actively shortens the content for those who WANT to play the long game. And boosting earnings 1000 fold then adding 10 billion credit ships with passive costs is not imo the answer.

 

[Ydiss]

This specific game play (low gravity mats gathering or just any mats gathering in the srv) would be a lot better with my grappling hook idea.

I wish my SRV had a grappling hook...

Anyone who did any prospecting on a low gravity planet in their SRV will know this feeling. You blast your target and watch its ingredients spew up and up then... Slowly, gradually, drift down to the ground. Then you have to play the hoover game, snuffling up each one, a bit like this... I...

forums.frontier.co.uk

(BTW go play another game, sorry forgot my forum duties for a moment there; actually discussing ideas for improvement is not popular)

 

[Hoshizoku]

heres another fun one to watch:

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/koknua

 

[Achtung-Goomba]

I'd hate to think that others play for fun, that would be unthinkable!

Braben said if I ever stop playing he'll throw my cats out of the airlock...

 

[Achtung-Goomba]

heres another fun one to watch:

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/koknua

See, I actually enjoy making a mini-game of trying to catch the mats as they float down in low-G, but then again my mam always said I was a bit special.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

As for objective measures of the overall market reception we have a few, the overall financial results of FDEV for one or the fact Elite goes on the Steam top sale list every time there is a sale (after 6 years from lunch that is still impressive), the recent absolute historic record of player concurrency in Steam since it was launched in that platform back in 2015, or more generally the simple fact Elite Dangerous appears as a regular in most game press articles about "Top 10 space games" etc. All those suggest FDEV indeed cares about its market and the market tends to agree.

I've always accounted for the fact that elite is still operating in a market with absolutely zero competition, combined with players growing interest in the space genre and acceptance of simulator complexity games in general. All of frontiers games pretty much have zero competition, strategically as a company they pick their battles very well.

I think that gives frontier a free pass with all the issues that we plainly and passionately see, and also explain the objective successes frontier achieve.

If elite wasn't a space simulator, how would mainstream (say reddit) reception be to the existing issues? If a competing mid tier publisher released an elite clone without the issues.. would we even be playing elite?

Yeah, i would more account what you mentioned to the brilliant strategic direction of david braben more than a measure of the quality of elite's content?

EDIT2: Of course there are great things that are provided from elite. Wouldn't have found myself playing with it otherwise. But the context is very far from praiseworthy, and sadly has crossed the line where its in most advanced players interests to speak out and let them know what the reality is. Its not benign enough to just let pass and we'll be okay.. Even though from frontiers perspective they're running a business and of course that comes first.

Why then they do not do certain things me or you would like implemented or see as an obvious win? Well, that is down to the always delicate balance between priorities and finite resources. Not an easy balance.

That's a really good point, and subjective from both ours and frontiers perspective ultimately.

Since you asked though, id have to say id measure to "industry standard" in terms of completeness and quality of video game features. What is received from other games in the steam library. Personally i wouldn't have any valid gripes if it were on par with the rest i guess.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Also in comparision.. this is what feedback without the provocation on this forum gets you:

Comodity Delivery Mission - Deliver all items QoL request

Hey Guys, could we please get a button to deliver / receive all items at once instead of needing to constantly scroll through all the items. This should probably a pretty easy implementation. Just start the button on the maximum possible value instead of zero. Then you still could reduce the...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Nothing.

Perhaps because it was a well written, polite, and non-provocative post.

Of course, then you miss out on the pages and pages of amusing banter

 

[Turric4n_ED]

I've always accounted for the fact that elite is still operating in a market with absolutely zero competition, combined with players growing interest in the space genre and acceptance of simulator complexity games in general. All of frontiers games pretty much have zero competition, strategically as a company they pick their battles very well.

I think that gives frontier a free pass with all the issues that we plainly and passionately see, and also explain the objective successes frontier achieve.

If elite wasn't a space simulator, how would mainstream (say reddit) reception be to the existing issues? If a competing mid tier publisher released an elite clone without the issues.. would we even be playing elite?

Yeah, i would more account what you mentioned to the brilliant strategic direction of david braben more than a measure of the quality of elite's content?

I probably think i would not since the tedious stuff between the good pieces is just to demanding and tedious. It is not ticking my biochemical receptors as other games that are grindy do. I enjoy Path of Exile or World of Warcraft classic. I enjoy Factorio and Stardew Valley.. But had Elite not this Background Simulation and procedural generated world with the amazing looking aesthetics.. yeah i would not play. It is at its core just not a big game if you take away the stuff that conceals the emptiness and lack of actual deep mechanics.

Hauling cargo is not a deep expierience. Get a mission, load your ship, fly out, get interdicted, dock and turn in your mission. There is no variance. There is no thinking about the task like dangerous routes or less dangerous routes. there is just an interdiction waiting 100ls from the goal. Everytime.

 

[Susanna]

There was a time, I'm sure you will be pleased to hear, before crystalline shards were added to the game, when you had to gather mats by prospecting the hard way...

Consider CS sites a blessing! Because fdev are very happy to make resource gathering as arduous as possible!

 

[Madrax573]

Do you get angry when waiting for traffic lights to change colour as well?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

There was a time, I'm sure you will be pleased to hear, before crystalline shards were added to the game, when you had to gather mats by prospecting the hard way...

Consider CS sites a blessing! Because fdev are very happy to make resource gathering as arduous as possible!

Still my favourite way. I find sites like that a bit boring. I prefer driving across terrain at speed looking for the next rock.

 

[Achtung-Goomba]

Do you get angry when waiting for traffic lights to change colour as well?

Real life is soooooo tedious, I’d rather be flying pretend spaceships.

 

[Turric4n_ED]

Do you get angry when waiting for traffic lights to change colour as well?

Wonder why roundabouts where invented. Surely not to improve the traffic flow. Must be something else.