C'mon, this is faintly ridiculous.

[Madrax573]

One potential for the 'power creep' in credits I think is that ED only had a single 'progression' system. I.E. how many credits do you have (and therefore what ship can you get)

Then engineers came along to add another progression system with it's own 'currency' (the mats) which also has undergone a revamp etc and made easier.

The only other 'progression systems' were the navy ranks but those are a 'one and done' system so ultimately have a very limited value...

When you only have a small number of progression systems in a game you will get a large 'power creep' to keep the feeling of movement as player are notoriously fickle and get bored so start looking for the 'next big thing' and when that require a large 'grind' then people complain etc. The other aspect of a simple progression system is that to 'expand' the system which require more or that system then rewards often get boosted so the 'early game' pretty much becomes such an insignificant process when it used to be an actual achievement to move to the next tier or progression etc...

just my 2 cred ramble...

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

I don't get why you would come here and complain about this but that's just me.

I have a job and I don't need my games to feel like jobs. Engineering is bad enough. If it took me months to get the ships I wanted that are even worth it to engineer, I would frankly just not be playing this game.

This is just pixels guys... What do you feel you are "earning" here and whet benefit is there in making things even more tedious?

 

[Susanna]

Surely the objective of struggling is to get to the point that you don't need to, no?

 

[Vandaahl]

When I first played this game I recall spending days shooting and trading to earn enough for a Cobra III, then if I did a few missions I could maybe earn enough to upgrade the thrusters or lasers a little bit at a time, eeking out a profit, gleaning a little money here and there to upgrade the ship and keep a little back for trading. There was a real sense of "ducking and diving" and being on a knife-edge.

NOW. Well, I've reset my save and started again because I got bored. I've got a Imperial and either I'm a much better commander, or payouts are just ludicrous. I literally get enough for a/b grade a module for every mission board mission. I earn enough for a Hauler or Adder from many single courier missions, which begs the question why the company didn't just buy a damned ship and take it there themselves! - then there's combat. I - just - assist in taking down a minor league criminal and I get rewarded with enough money to buy a new ship. 20 minutes in a Nav beacon and I "earned" a several hundred thousand. It's like Dog the bounty hunter taking down some guy who didn't pay off his $100 credit card debt, and being rewarded with a new Corvette.

I know why it's been done, but seriously.....

Right, now go buy a carrier...

 

[Para Handy]

When I first played this game I recall spending days shooting and trading to earn enough for a Cobra III, then if I did a few missions I could maybe earn enough to upgrade the thrusters or lasers a little bit at a time, eeking out a profit, gleaning a little money here and there to upgrade the ship and keep a little back for trading. There was a real sense of "ducking and diving" and being on a knife-edge.

NOW. Well, I've reset my save and started again because I got bored. I've got a Imperial and either I'm a much better commander, or payouts are just ludicrous. I literally get enough for a/b grade a module for every mission board mission. I earn enough for a Hauler or Adder from many single courier missions, which begs the question why the company didn't just buy a damned ship and take it there themselves! - then there's combat. I - just - assist in taking down a minor league criminal and I get rewarded with enough money to buy a new ship. 20 minutes in a Nav beacon and I "earned" a several hundred thousand. It's like Dog the bounty hunter taking down some guy who didn't pay off his $100 credit card debt, and being rewarded with a new Corvette.

I know why it's been done, but seriously.....

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Para Handy]

..........
Fdev recently released the original ED on PC, for free. .......

It has been available to download (free) from Frontier since at least 2015.

 

[Commander Biscuit]

There's a point to be argued about making things more accessible with more content being added (although I would disagree), but why completely remove ships, ship ugrades (outside of engineering) from the progression system, and make rebuys a non-factor ? It's making the game poorer.

Probably because people complained that it was an unengaging grind, which it was. Although the current meta is equally unengaging (grinding for fleet carriers) FD consider getting the ship you want as the starting point of the game now. They don't want 8 million new Epic customers to never leave their sidewinder. Data collection has informed FD of some of their failed design decisions in the past, and ditching the things you listed probably has a lot to do with that.

By the way, rebuys still aren't a non-factor. There's been some high profile flounces caused by ship losses, not that it makes it a particularly good game mechanic. Remember that one guy that lost a heavily engineered Conda that he flew without rebuy? I haven't seen him around since that happened.

 

[antiriad]

By the way, rebuys still aren't a non-factor. There's been some high profile flounces caused by ship losses, not that it makes it a particularly good game mechanic. Remember that one guy that lost a heavily engineered Conda that he flew without rebuy? I haven't seen him around since that happened.

Yeah true. Having said that, if you lose a Viper or Cobra because of flying without rebuy, you remember that loss and don't make the same mistake again. You certainly wouldn't rage quit over it. The guy you mentioned lost his ship because he didn't understand the mechanic, not because of the cost. You'd struggle to get a 50m CR rebuy on a Conda - what's that? 30 mins mining (at most)?

 

[Old Duck]

When I first played this game I recall spending days shooting and trading to earn enough for a Cobra III, then if I did a few missions I could maybe earn enough to upgrade the thrusters or lasers a little bit at a time, eeking out a profit, gleaning a little money here and there to upgrade the ship and keep a little back for trading. There was a real sense of "ducking and diving" and being on a knife-edge.

NOW. Well, I've reset my save and started again because I got bored. I've got a Imperial and either I'm a much better commander, or payouts are just ludicrous. I literally get enough for a/b grade a module for every mission board mission. I earn enough for a Hauler or Adder from many single courier missions, which begs the question why the company didn't just buy a damned ship and take it there themselves! - then there's combat. I - just - assist in taking down a minor league criminal and I get rewarded with enough money to buy a new ship. 20 minutes in a Nav beacon and I "earned" a several hundred thousand. It's like Dog the bounty hunter taking down some guy who didn't pay off his $100 credit card debt, and being rewarded with a new Corvette.

I know why it's been done, but seriously.....

Yet another reason I prefer Space Engineers these days - that game has way more gravitas because you really need to work to get a good ship (either build or buy), and if you lose it, you really lose it. I've been playing for months and am only now getting ready to upgrade to my second Elite-like (space-faring FTL) spaceship, and it's basically something akin to a Courier - definitely NOT a Anaconda!

It makes Elite feel like an arcade game in comparison, which is ironic since people think of SE as the "Lego" space game.

 

[Madrax573]

I don't get why you would come here and complain about this but that's just me.

I have a job and I don't need my games to feel like jobs. Engineering is bad enough. If it took me months to get the ships I wanted that are even worth it to engineer, I would frankly just not be playing this game.

This is just pixels guys... What do you feel you are "earning" here and whet benefit is there in making things even more tedious?

For me it's about have an escape to a plausible game world to explore and feel a part of. If you feel you are working in any game I suggest you go play something else.

But there is also a component of feeling that I have achieved something. And just being 'given' something for little effort simply makes the thing not worth it IMO.

Elite has always been a franchise that rewards a bit of effort and focus. And recently the game has been feeling like a casual game that simply gives people too much and it simply adds to the idea that ED is a mile wide inch deep and has no depth... it doesn't have any depth if you get everything for little effort etc. It may well just be a generation thing with us older gamers...

Ultimately it doesn't bother me so much as I play how I want regardless etc but as it is a multiplayer game some will feel hard done by regardless of what the 'balance' is. I generally play it as a sometime co-op game rather than a true MP game.


Edit: it's also the main reason why I've reset my save more than a couple of times over the 3k hours I've had in game... you get to a point ever more quickly where there is little effort or risk in any activity in ED.

 

[Commander Biscuit]

Yeah true. Having said that, if you lose a Viper or Cobra because of flying without rebuy, you remember that loss and don't make the same mistake again. You certainly wouldn't rage quit over it. The guy you mentioned lost his ship because he didn't understand the mechanic, not because of the cost. You'd struggle to get a 50m CR rebuy on a Conda - what's that? 30 mins mining (at most)?

Definitely a different guy. The guy I'm talking about knew about rebuy, he just thought he wouldn't die and always flew with a wing of guys protecting him.

Yeah it's not hard to get that rebuy, but in this case the guy was a pvper and the situation of being low on cash wasn't new to him. He also didn't have time to grind money since he has to get his stream started. Like I said it's not a great mechanic and should probably be ditched if all it's going to cause at best is ragequits. I certainly don't play Elite because of the fun possibility of losing my ship, not that I ever would. Like you said, I learned my lesson early with a Viper 3.

 

[Madrax573]

Yet another reason I prefer Space Engineers these days - that game has way more gravitas because you really need to work to get a good ship (either build or buy), and if you lose it, you really lose it. I've been playing for months and am only now getting ready to upgrade to my second Elite-like (space-faring FTL) spaceship, and it's basically something akin to a Courier - definitely NOT a Anaconda!

It makes Elite feel like an arcade game in comparison, which is ironic since people think of SE as the "Lego" space game.

SE has some crazy deep process when you get into it... it took me away from ED for a long while as well and if it had even close to the flight model of Ed I'd be gone for good as it's one of the biggest draw cards for ED to me.

 

[Morbad]

What do you feel you are "earning" here

Verisimilitude and gameplay, mostly.

That no one can really gain or lose anything tangible for their characters eliminates huge swaths of potential.

and whet benefit is there in making things even more tedious?

Tedium is not implied by the potential for hardship.

I certainly don't play Elite because of the fun possibility of losing my ship

I would enjoy the game a hell of a lot more were this a possibility, while playing by the same rules as everyone else.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

Verisimilitude and gameplay, mostly.

That no one can really gain or lose anything tangible for their characters eliminates huge swaths of potential.



Tedium is not implied by the potential for hardship.



I would enjoy the game a hell of a lot more were this a possibility, while playing by the same rules as everyone else.

One day they will switch the servers off and poof this sense of achievement and accomplishment you are striving for? All gone. And what will you have left to show for it? Pixels are a hollow pursuit.

I've been there done that a hundred times over. Trust me, what you say the game should be will always leave you wanting. I'm playing Elite to have fun. What you and others are pushing for is decidely not fun.

 

[pnellesen]

I understand the OP's point (I still remember how happy I was when I earned enough money to buy my stock Cobra MKIII AND have enough left over for a rebuy, and then slowly running missions and doing BH in High Res sites to earn enough to A-Rate all the modules) but not sure what can be done nowadays to bring back that same "FINALLY I have enough credits for <thing I want>" feeling. I'm holding out hope that Odyssey will have SOMETHING new that can excite even a jaded semi-old-timer.

 

[[PS4] Filthymick420]

"In my day, I walked up hill to school every day, both ways. It didn't matter how deep the snow was, I'd walk back and forth every day and I didn't complain..."

Fdev recently released the original ED on PC, for free. Did you guys get your copy?

Apparently they saved all the complaining for more recent times

 

[Morbad]

Fdev recently released the original ED on PC, for free. Did you guys get your copy?

Already had a copy.

Anyway, Elite: Dangerous isn't an Elite sequel to me. I wouldn't be playing this game without the multiplayer aspect and the multiplayer aspect doesn't exist in a vacuum.

One day they will switch the servers off and poof this sense of achievement and accomplishment you are striving for? All gone.

Why would you assume that?

They switched off the servers to plenty of multiplayer video games I have fond recollections of long ago. It didn't reduce my sense of achievement or accomplishment in the slightest...it will take death or dementia to do that.

And what will you have left to show for it?

The same thing I've gotten from other games, or almost any other activity for that matter. The experience.

Pixels are a hollow pursuit.

Not if I'm having fun and/or experiencing things I find meaningful. Which are both completely subjective.

I've been there done that a hundred times over. Trust me, what you say the game should be will always leave you wanting. I'm playing Elite to have fun. What you and others are pushing for is decidely not fun.

Don't presume to tell me what I'll enjoy.

I've played plenty of games that featured meaningful constraints and consequences...enjoyed them all the more for it.

Even this game, which was never very strong on consequence, was significantly more enjoyable when not everything was free and it was possible to suffer setbacks.

 

[[PS4] Filthymick420]

Also, didn't lord Braben say if they ever shut the game off they would put the source out there for fans to make and mod or something to that effect?

 

[metatheurgist]

If by faintly you mean extremely. Used to be a ship upgrade was an investment, you worked in it until it paid off and made you enough to make another upgrade. Now it's the blip on the road to Anaconda.

 

[Fenwe]

Anaconda's suck. Now my Cutter or my Corvette, or my Krait MK 2 that I was fighting Thargoid at Wellington...

Taking 5 years to get out of your sidewinder may be fun for a small minority of very vocal players, but the majority of players think that sucks. You just can't deny the truth of that when you consider the growth of the player base. If you guys want to complain about something, it should be about the endless number of Fleet Carriers. Why anyone would buy a ship that comes with a mortgage payment is beyond me, but hey. People find different things fun, and I can respect the differences.

and there are consequences for flying stupid. I saw a 'discussion' thread the other day where a guy was complaining because his trigger control sucked and he got fined, he crashed his ship, re-bought and ended up at a penal colony without the ability to pay the 500 bucks..

The fact that no experienced person would make that kind of mistake doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Or the guy that tried to play open, got ganked and was in a swivel about how impossible engineering is. shakes head

Life is about understanding perspective.