C'mon, this is faintly ridiculous.

As a new player I agree with OP.

I would prefer that maybe mats would be a bit easier/faster to gather but credits hard.

I miss that excitement of finally be able to buy "the next ship", flying it E rated and without a rebuy because the purchase made me broke, and that new ship smell!
And that was just a month ago or so.

It was some of the most immersive times I've ever had in a computer game.
 
As a new player I agree with OP.

I would prefer that maybe mats would be a bit easier/faster to gather but credits hard.

I miss that excitement of finally be able to buy "the next ship", flying it E rated and without a rebuy because the purchase made me broke, and that new ship smell!
And that was just a month ago or so.

It was some of the most immersive times I've ever had in a computer game.

What are you flying?
 
Don't presume to tell me what I'll enjoy.

I've played plenty of games that featured meaningful constraints and consequences...enjoyed them all the more for it.

Even this game, which was never very strong on consequence, was significantly more enjoyable when not everything was free and it was possible to suffer setbacks.

But you and others are presuming to tell me that I would have enjoyed the game more if it took me months to get my Anaconda. Or struggled to get every A-Rated module. Aren't you? That's quite the presumption.

You are making bold blanket statements about what is "more enjoyable" in this game while rebuking me for a presumption. Quite the contradiction. Maybe what's more enjoyable to you is just that: to YOU?

I find the game quite enjoyable. In fact I haven't put this many hours a week into a game in quite some time. What you and others are calling for would hinder my gameplay for no other reason than an artificial barrier so you can feel some silly sense of "accomplishment" in a video game.

Also, and I don't mean this as a slam, if you want all that stuff go play Eve Online for a month. Take it from me, you'll come running back to Elite Dangerous.
 
What are you flying?

Right now I mostly fly my jumpa-DBX, my speed-iEagle or my A rated Krait MK2.

Probably spent most hours in my ASPX

But i have a-rated iCourier, Vulture, Python (which i hate and probably will sell), all the ships that was on sale before christmas (all E rated and untouched) and probably some more i forgot.

I have never mined so didnt use that that thingy that got nerfed recently, mostly trading (boom times) and exploring.

Would not be able to buy and A rate an Anaconda right now so im not crazy rich (and im in VR so i probably never will buy an Anaconda, cant even stand the nose of the iCourier)

I guess i can partly blame myself for hoarding ships but considering the thrill in the beginning im sad that its gone.
 
I have an ENTIRE Milky Way galaxy to see and explore. Do you really think me toiling away in the bubble for credits is what's going to give me a sense of this progression?

I'm sorry some of you seem bored with the game now that you have everything and have seen everything. So this expansion Odyssey is coming and maybe it will sate you for a time. But I firmly disagree that limiting credits will make you feel any better about things. It will just make others experience of the game worst.

The credit grind didn't make you appreciate the game more. You are bored now, and you weren't back then. That's all this is imo.
Nope, not bored then and not bored now. If I was, I wouldn't still be playing the game 5 years later...

As I stated in the post you quoted, I'm fine with the status quo as far as credits are concerned. I merely said that I'm glad that I had to go through that initial stage of ship progression, whereas if I'd been able to get into whatever ship I wanted virtually straight away, the game would probably have become boring to me much quicker and I wouldn't still be playing it.

This may well not be true for you, and as I said, that's absolutely fine. Making ships easier to acquire for newcomers when time-served players are already flying around in top of the line vessels is probably a good thing for attracting and keeping new players in the game.
 
Gameplay and end game content shifted. Imagine the road new players need to take. The rest of the world is flying about in their shiny carriers

But people are NOT flying in their carriers. Carriers aren't the means through which you access the game's content, they are for the most part very expensive quality of life things. Their availability to veterans of the game should make no difference to the early game progression.

and the new ones have to grind themselves to death through ship progression ...

Which is the game.

... all the while getting jumped by to the teeth engineered ships.

The Engineers were initially not supposed to bring pure powercreep like they currently do. They were supposed to add sidegrades, such that they wouldn't replace ship progression but complement it. The fact Frontier completely messed up on that point and turned the Engineers into the game is not an excuse for removing ships and modules as pertinent elements of the progression system. All these resources were invested in creating dozens of different ships, most of which are now completely irrelevant because their purpose as stepping stones is gone.
You would think ship variety is a pretty important thing in a game about flying spaceships, but nowadays even beginners will get their hands on an Anaconda or FDL in a matter of hours, and they'll have no reason to ever look back. Don't tell me that's not true, because I'm witnessing it right now. A bunch of gaming buddies of mine got into the game, and in a matter of hours abused wing massacre missions to get themselves Fer De Lances already. So far they have enjoyed their time as combat is the most intricate aspect of the game, but I know in a few days they'll be gone, because they're already starting to ask the "what now" question and there is no easy answer to that.

At the start of this game we had to go through ship progression because there wasn't anything else to progress through, and it made sense because we were all flying the same crap. These days are gone. The game, gameplay and its content evolved, old players should too.

We had to go through ship progression because that's the whole point of a game like Elite. Gameplay and content have not evolved in a direction that would justify reducing or removing ship progression. More things have been added to do while getting to the top, but little has been added at the top. Once you have your yeetboat, there is very little there to keep you going. Thargoids will keep you busy for a while if that's your thing, or PvP, but these are very niche interests. If you remove the whole process of getting there, there is only the shell of a game left.
Most of us who are still playing have found various ways of keeping entertained through the years (some go exploring, some hunt lore and puzzles, some do BGS), but tell me, how many of these 'activities' rely so exclusively on a high-end ship, that it would be a good idea to remove the whole early game to let the player reach that point faster?

And even if Frontier had really added more end-game content: why would that justify removing the early game at all? Surely a game having more content is a good thing, especially when it's spread out along and gated by a progression system wich introduced the player to new stuff gradually. I don't see why new content at the top should mean you should spend less time in the early game, if the early game is good. And the early game certainly used to be where ED shone.

How about just picking low paying missions that way you can enjoy the many months it will take to A rate your sidey.

Forcing myself to break character and give myself handicaps severely hurts my enjoyment.
 
Right now I mostly fly my jumpa-DBX, my speed-iEagle or my A rated Krait MK2.

Probably spent most hours in my ASPX

But i have a-rated iCourier, Vulture, Python (which i hate and probably will sell), all the ships that was on sale before christmas (all E rated and untouched) and probably some more i forgot.

I have never mined so didnt use that that thingy that got nerfed recently, mostly trading (boom times) and exploring.

Would not be able to buy and A rate an Anaconda right now so im not crazy rich (and im in VR so i probably never will buy an Anaconda, cant even stand the nose of the iCourier)

I guess i can partly blame myself for hoarding ships but considering the thrill in the beginning im sad that its gone.

You have more ships to go. Also, the speed at which you got the ships is not a problem. At the end of the day, there are only so many ships. Upgrading and improving ships and unlocking Engineers is a far longer grindier process. I can't even earn a rebuy for my corvette in an hour.

Honestly I wonder what most of the player base does for work. So many people seem to want ever games that you just grind forever at for a tiny reward. I would rather have a game where I can log in, play an hour, make significant progress, and then log out with the ABILITY to play for 5+ hours at a time if I want to but not as a requirement.
 
But people are NOT flying in their carriers. Carriers aren't the means through which you access the game's content, they are for the most part very expensive quality of life things. Their availability to veterans of the game should make no difference to the early game progression.



Which is the game.



The Engineers were initially not supposed to bring pure powercreep like they currently do. They were supposed to add sidegrades, such that they wouldn't replace ship progression but complement it. The fact Frontier completely messed up on that point and turned the Engineers into the game is not an excuse for removing ships and modules as pertinent elements of the progression system. All these resources were invested in creating dozens of different ships, most of which are now completely irrelevant because their purpose as stepping stones is gone.
You would think ship variety is a pretty important thing in a game about flying spaceships, but nowadays even beginners will get their hands on an Anaconda or FDL in a matter of hours, and they'll have no reason to ever look back. Don't tell me that's not true, because I'm witnessing it right now. A bunch of gaming buddies of mine got into the game, and in a matter of hours abused wing massacre missions to get themselves Fer De Lances already. So far they have enjoyed their time as combat is the most intricate aspect of the game, but I know in a few days they'll be gone, because they're already starting to ask the "what now" question and there is no easy answer to that.



We had to go through ship progression because that's the whole point of a game like Elite. Gameplay and content have not evolved in a direction that would justify reducing or removing ship progression. More things have been added to do while getting to the top, but little has been added at the top. Once you have your yeetboat, there is very little there to keep you going. Thargoids will keep you busy for a while if that's your thing, or PvP, but these are very niche interests. If you remove the whole process of getting there, there is only the shell of a game left.
Most of us who are still playing have found various ways of keeping entertained through the years (some go exploring, some hunt lore and puzzles, some do BGS), but tell me, how many of these 'activities' rely so exclusively on a high-end ship, that it would be a good idea to remove the whole early game to let the player reach that point faster?

And even if Frontier had really added more end-game content: why would that justify removing the early game at all? Surely a game having more content is a good thing, especially when it's spread out along and gated by a progression system wich introduced the player to new stuff gradually. I don't see why new content at the top should mean you should spend less time in the early game, if the early game is good. And the early game certainly used to be where ED shone.



Forcing myself to break character and give myself handicaps severely hurts my enjoyment.
Like I said, old players should evolve too :)
 
To me this sounds like players feeling like they aren't special anymore because other people have the same prestige ships as them. This feels like nothing more than "I'm the only kid on my block with a SNES!"

No.

But you and others are presuming to tell me that I would have enjoyed the game more if it took me months to get my Anaconda. Or struggled to get every A-Rated module. Aren't you? That's quite the presumption.

I personally couldn't care less what Frontier does to your game, all I care is what they do to mine. I have long since given up on ED having any value as an MMO, but Morbad still seems to think it's salvageable, and in that optic he logically wants everyone to obey the same rules, so what he wants for his game would have to be what you get too. But noone here claims to tell you what it is you like.

Like I said, old players should evolve too :)

The game was changed once based on the feedback of players who wouldn't adapt, why should I not try the same? That is after all part of the normal cycle of feedback.
 
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You can't say no. "To me this sounds like" means, this is what I perceive. You can argue that the situation is not that, but you can't tell me what I'm seeing.

Honestly, all the resetters in this thread illustrate the wrong direction. The beginning of the game is fun because rewards come FASTER. Always been the case, the earlier ships are easier to get and require less grinding. The early game has more excitement because there are more meaningful rewards that are easier to get, and the upgrades you get early on are huge.

This is true of most games where you can aquire things. I remember this exact feeling from Diablo 2: early item upgrades felt huge even though they were of terrible quality by endgame standards. But when you go from 1 damage to 2 damage that feels gigantic and has a big impact, because you've doubled your damage. Compared to the end game where you go from 16 million to 17 million damage on an upgrade. It just isn't as big a leap anymore and never can be.

TLDR; the people saying the later game is not as good as the start don't realize its because you get more stuff faster for less effort. That's not an argument to make the game more drawn out and harder.
 
When I first played this game I recall spending days shooting and trading to earn enough for a Cobra III, then if I did a few missions I could maybe earn enough to upgrade the thrusters or lasers a little bit at a time, eeking out a profit, gleaning a little money here and there to upgrade the ship and keep a little back for trading. There was a real sense of "ducking and diving" and being on a knife-edge.

NOW. Well, I've reset my save and started again because I got bored. I've got a Imperial and either I'm a much better commander, or payouts are just ludicrous. I literally get enough for a/b grade a module for every mission board mission. I earn enough for a Hauler or Adder from many single courier missions, which begs the question why the company didn't just buy a damned ship and take it there themselves! - then there's combat. I - just - assist in taking down a minor league criminal and I get rewarded with enough money to buy a new ship. 20 minutes in a Nav beacon and I "earned" a several hundred thousand. It's like Dog the bounty hunter taking down some guy who didn't pay off his $100 credit card debt, and being rewarded with a new Corvette.

I know why it's been done, but seriously.....

They haven't scaled the rewards dependant on the elite ranks you have. This has been a serious problem with the game as a newbie can get to the big ships to quickly and IMHO miss out of some of the best ships and gameplay there is.
 
....and there are a lot of high end ships being flown by complete novices!

Mwhahahaha!
Time to take my PvP Sidewinder out of storage - never fails to amuse me seeing a 'Big 3' run from a starter ship! 😜

(Then again, a new Cmdr crushed me to death in my SRV yesterday - it's all part of the fun!)
 
I have long since given up on ED having any value as an MMO, but Morbad still seems to think it's salvageable, and in that optic he logically wants everyone to obey the same rules, so what he wants for his game would have to be what you get too. But noone here claims to tell you what it is you like.


Then the solution is simple: Better connect the individual player, through quests or something, to what is happening within the BGS.

The solution is not making us all serfs.
 
Pfft, what's the problem.

If I'm not earning enough credits to buy at least 150 Cobra mkIII's an hour (conservative estimate) I'm not happy.
At one point it was a shade over 700 Cm3's per hour, which I felt was about right, 'balance' wise.

I've started trading in interstellar capable starships, credits are so 3306.


Digriz
 
Honestly, all the resetters in this thread illustrate the wrong direction. The beginning of the game is fun because rewards come FASTER. Always been the case, the earlier ships are easier to get and require less grinding. The early game has more excitement because there are more meaningful rewards that are easier to get, and the upgrades you get early on are huge.

This is true of most games where you can aquire things. I remember this exact feeling from Diablo 2: early item upgrades felt huge even though they were of terrible quality by endgame standards. But when you go from 1 damage to 2 damage that feels gigantic and has a big impact, because you've doubled your damage. Compared to the end game where you go from 16 million to 17 million damage on an upgrade. It just isn't as big a leap anymore and never can be.

TLDR; the people saying the later game is not as good as the start don't realize its because you get more stuff faster for less effort. That's not an argument to make the game more drawn out and harder.

You nailed it. I don't understand what they hope to "feel" by doing the reset. OFC the game is easier, they already know how to play it! So much time and effort is spent when we're new just learning all these mechanics, how to fly, how to dock etc etc.

They are chasing the dragon man. They will NEVER get that new-player feeling back by doing a reset no matter how hard credits are to earn.
 
I miss the earlier days, I know I sound like an old man complaining 'That back in me day...'. But I do miss when doing a trading run worring about fuel costs and ship damage could make the whole trading run a bust as you end up losing money.

It sucked but it was fun, now as many have said I jump into a sidewinder and by the end of the day I have a fully A grade Anaconda. What is the point the journey from the sidey to the conda was part of the gameplay.

I personal think that all payments need cutting or/and maintenance costs need increasing.

I will get back in my old man cupboard now.
 
You nailed it. I don't understand what they hope to "feel" by doing the reset. OFC the game is easier, they already know how to play it! So much time and effort is spent when we're new just learning all these mechanics, how to fly, how to dock etc etc.

They are chasing the dragon man. They will NEVER get that new-player feeling back by doing a reset no matter how hard credits are to earn.

I have been regularly resetting my characters since 2015, because I enjoy, or used to enjoy, the struggle of the early game: not learning to work around all the idiosyncrasies of the game, but the having to make do with a crap ship, not having enough to even A-rate it, and needing to worry about paying for the running costs and above all worrying about the rebuy cost.
The problem is, and this is divorced from the issue to which you allude (that veteran players can't exactly unlearn what they know) every time I do it my options become more and more limited, because every other update Frontier increases the rewards for this or that activity or mission to crazy levels. I'm not talking about very specific gold rushes and exploits which you need to be in the know to make use of, the most basic game loops around the starting station will let you skip what I consider the interesting bits of the game.
You don't need to be a veteran to do those assassination missions for 800k to kill a harmless Adder, or to scan a public terminal at some planetary outpost for the same reward, and yet these will put you, in the span of an hour or two, into a ship which no NPC you're likely to encounter as a beginner is going to kill (and that measly 5% rebuy was never adjusted for the payouts increase). I should also mention the couple millions you now get, passively, just for flying by unexplored bodies in the course of those missions. You literally get millions just for flying around.

I sometimes like to claim the game showers you with credits just for undocking: I used to know I was being hyperbolic, but nowadays it's getting ridiculously close.
 
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