C'mon, this is faintly ridiculous.

[antiriad]

Frankly, no game, even mmos should have grind. Grind happens because online everlasting games and mmos don't have enough content to fill that time. So you get the same content over and over again dressed up sometimes in different ways. If an activity is fun and you can do it for a reasonable amount of time, that's not grind, that's gameplay. But no MMO/Online ever game like elite has enough crafted gameplay to fill that time. Hence, grind.

For a lot of people, it's a prestige thing. "I was able to grind and suffer to get this, so rather than being a matter of how mind numbing an investment I'm willing to make, I want this to feel like a prestige skill thing and be inaccessible to as many others as possible!"



Sure, if you're an experienced player with a big ship at which point you SHOULD be making 200 mill an hour OR MORE. Lets see, to acquire and outfit a corvette (ignoring of course the massive grind to get the rank for it) That's around a billion credits. (not to mention the time you'll spend engineering the thing.) SOOOOOooooo 2-3 hours? That's fifteen hours of gameplay to get up the billion to outfit a corvette. Many games don't even LAST fifteen hours. And that's 15 hours of doing the same repetitive thing over and over, not 15 hours of exciting missions, journeys, ect.

And to get even a base model carrier that's 75hours. If you play every night for two hours (Which is more than many people can) That's more than a month of gameplay to earn a carrier. Is a carrier worth an entire month of your free time? That's the thing: Does the time invested equal the reward, when there are lots of other things you can do with your time? That's what really drives whether or not a game is successful.

I found this post very interesting, because it describes a completely different approach to gaming than I have. I play the game and earn credits (and mats), and enjoy the experience. The credits eventually pile up. I don't play the with the sole intention of earning credits to buy x or y - it'll simply happen eventually.

I'm reminded of when Fallout 4 launched. I really enjoyed that game (for all its faults), and played around 120+ hours on my first character. Sure I could easily have completed it in far less time, but I was enjoying it so much, I didn't want to complete it, because the experience I was enjoying would have ended. A friend of mine who bought it at the same time completed the game within a few days of purchase. He probably struggled to understand why I was taking so long, but I similarly wondered why he wanted it to end so quickly. Different playstyles and priorities.

Which brings us to Elite Dangerous. There IS no end to this game. That's probably why that same friend got bored with Elite pretty quickly. This game suits my playstyle more than his, hence I'm still here 5 years later and he's not loaded the game for more than 3 years.

I'm not saying my playstyle is "better" or "worse", but it does seem to fit this game better than his.

 

[BatXDude]

I read about the iCache thing they’re struggling with atm. I don’t think that would be the final solution for them though. They have more issues to contend with, especially with their roadmap, that isn't really a roadmap... personally I think that game (or at least the guys running the show) is a scam.

But thanks for the info on how ED works

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Indeed. ED definite has the potential to encourage grind but you don't HAVE to grind. That is not to say ED couldn't have more varied game loops or more potential for gameloops to change.
ALL (ok most) games have grind to some extent but whether it is perceived as grind I suppose depends on if you enjoy the game loops you are "grinding".
The exception to this is competitive PvP. I do agree if you want to do that and quickly you will need to hammer everything and do every exploit and meta and I can see this being a chore. This comes down to ED being a game which offers PvP as an option but is absolutely not balanced around PvP.
FD introduced CQC to try to scratch that itch and it didn't really work for some. Rather than continually put all of the rest of the game under a bus I would rather they fleshed out CQC more offering super fast engineering, importing your ships etc but keeping it out of the core game.
2500hrs in and I still have not unlocked a cutter or corvette (not that I could afford one I have under 200mil in the bank). If I feel the game becoming a chore I stop.
But those are just my thoughts.

 

[Stealthie]

shakes head Every time I sit down I decide what I'm going to do.

Today it might be to take my Corvette into a compromized nav beacon after picking up some missions to kill pirates, or do it in my Alliance Chieftain instead.

Or use my Cutter and decide hauling supplies to Thargoid damaged stations sounds like a good idea.

Or fly my Krait MK2 to go hunt Thargoids...no I've been doing that for the last week in Wellington - anything but that...

Each ship provides a completely different available choice, or at least a very different feel of the stick when choosing to do something.

Your way just sounds boring to me. I know it gets your blood pumping and I respect that but fudge no.

I'm not really sure what part of my comment you disagree with, or find boring, TBH.

If earnings, in ED, were more modest I'd still have a fleet of ships for different activities - It'd just be a smaller fleet, and I wouldn't have a duplicate of it permanently based in Colonia.

I really enjoy building specialised ships.
I just think even that would be more rewarding if it wasn't just a case of rocking up at Jameson Memorial with, effectively, a blank cheque every time I decided to build a new ship.

 

[Reggit]

My observation at this particularly Grindy bit of the conversation....

...But instead of being told how to fit an SRV, what types of bodies, how to identify which ones are landable or even what 3rd party tools are available to find the nearest body with the mats he needs he was bombarded with advice to travel 12,000 lys to the shards. Sure that is one way to get RAW mats but the poor guy probably hadn't traveled more than a 100lys or so...

My account is 5 years old now - and I've never been to The Shards.
I know what/where they are, and I've been tempted to visit them in the past...But I haven't. The fact of the matter is, I can 100% of the time (and using in-game tools yay!) find a landable body and, within an hour or so, be Engineering using my newly acquired Raw Materials! (Meanwhile, the other Cmdr is only half-way to The Shards)
I'm not saying a Cmdr shouldn't go there - I'll be refilling my mats everytime I Engineer and it's not very efficient, while the other Cmdr will have many ships worth Engineering materials stashed.
(Also worth mentioning, I rarely scan stuff - I usually just drop into the Nav Beacon and be done with it)

I guess my point is, there's more than one way to skin a c̶a̶t̶ Beluga!
Some ways may be more efficient - but discovering what you find enjoyable about your individual playstyle, should be a very very subjective decision.
(Basically, I 100% agree with @M00ka - each Cmdr should do their own research and decide how much Grind™ they want to put in.)

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Guess that is just differing opinions . FD could give us multiple options to get some of the gear but sure, ultimately it would come down to supplying the materials as well as food and equipment for the workers..... To me that is a gameplay loop and I wouldn't see it as grind.myself so long as the numbers made some sort of sense.

To each their own.

I mean, it could work, depending on how such a "road to FC" is structured. Unfortunately based on Frontier's track record I don't think it'd be anything but a tedious grind of "go 500ly in that direction, repeat activity 100 times, rinse repeat".

So with that in mind, leaving it as a pure credit grind at least allows for some flexibility in terms of how you want to accumulate those credits, and with combat and AX income buffed, it doesn't have to be just mining anymore.

 

[Christopher Roberto]

I'm looking forward to having all my engineers unlocked so I can begin playing the game.

 

[Quantis Trap]

I agree OP. There's no challenge to getting ships any more and it's very sad!

There's far far less challenge to getting to Triple Elite any more. I know because I did it once in the first year or so (when it was super hard) and then twice again and each time it was far easier.

The only things which are truly challenging now are learning to fly 100% FA-off and learning to fight Thargoid interceptors.

If you don't do those things or are not an explorer off by yourself, this game is no longer a challenge whatsoever.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

Can’t we just all enjoy flying pretend spaceships and be done with it?

Nope apparently the game needs to change so they can feel special.

 

[Voidwizard1]

I am being paid too much.

Game was much more interesting (better) before all the crazy easy money was handed out.

No I do not use mining to make my money or use any in game exploits.

Will never buy a fleet carrier as they exist now and not just because I cannot find a use for them.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Nope apparently the game needs to change so they can feel special.

See it's post like this which makes things get salty. people were just discussing something agreeing or disagreeing but some one always come in with the personal attacks.
BTW in terms of earnings I would have been perfectly happy if the game DIDNT change

So is that your vote? Go back to the balancing BEFORE people complained ? (Becareful what you wish for but I would be ok with it)

It took me over 20 hrs to A rate my sidewinder... It was brilliant.

 

[Quantis Trap]

Can’t we just all enjoy flying pretend spaceships and be done with it?

Nope apparently the game needs to change so they can feel special.

I see comments like these often when long time players like the OP myself and others have legit concerns. Comments like these serve no purpose because they don't explain why the commenter agrees or disagrees with the original post. They simple serve to devalue the original post without stating and opinion. In other words they're week and trollish comments!

Edit: o7 Mad Mike! I see we were kind of channeling the same thought in parallel to some extent!

 

[thelion]

I see comments like these often when long time players like the OP myself and others have legit concerns. Comments like these serve no purpose because they don't explain why the commenter agrees or disagrees with the original post. They simple serve to devalue the original post without stating and opinion. In other words they're week and trollish comments!

Welcome to the grown up version of Tumblr old bean, what what

 

[Achtung-Goomba]

I see comments like these often when long time players like the OP myself and others have legit concerns. Comments like these serve no purpose because they don't explain why the commenter agrees or disagrees with the original post. They simple serve to devalue the original post without stating and opinion. In other words they're week and trollish comments!

I haven’t stated whether I agree or disagree with the original post, so don’t presume to know my opinion please (I somewhat agree, for the record). As for trolling, any opinion I had to contribute to this thread would either be ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ depending on which side of the line you fall on, and do nothing to change the course of discussion. So you’ve got me there!

Playfully disrupting threads since sometime last year, but do feel free to continue the discussion so I can skim through it when I’m not enjoying flying my pretend spaceships for the pleasure and not for the credits.

EDIT: reading back through this it sounds more confrontational than I intended and for that I sincerely apologise.

 

[Hoshizoku]

I see comments like these often when long time players like the OP myself and others have legit concerns. Comments like these serve no purpose because they don't explain why the commenter agrees or disagrees with the original post. They simple serve to devalue the original post without stating and opinion. In other words they're week and trollish comments!

You all just now on the complaining site. Few month ago half of those "long time players" mobbed away everyone that didnt want to grind. Now the table just have turned.

Legit Concerns
As if newplayers dont have them or yours are more valuable..

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

I see comments like these often when long time players like the OP myself and others have legit concerns. Comments like these serve no purpose because they don't explain why the commenter agrees or disagrees with the original post. They simple serve to devalue the original post without stating and opinion. In other words they're week and trollish comments!

But I have explained several times here why I disagree.

And no I don't believe this is the a legit Concern because it's flawed and based on emotions. These guys want the wonderment of going out in a Sidewinder and slowly "progressing" again. Which they can never feel again because it was all so new and exciting and adventurous.

Like new relationships, that euphoria phase with new games can never last.

Nerfing everyone's wallet won't make them feel what they want to feel. But they will try anyway. To me it's pretty selfish to hurt other players and dictate that all our game play will be a grind to get those new shiney ships. But I guess that's just me being "week".

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

You all just now on the complaining site. Few month ago half of those "long time players" mobbed away everyone that didnt want to grind. Now the table just have turned.

Legit Concerns
As if newplayers dont have them or yours are more valuable..

No he didn't say that and neither did I or..... Discuss away , just don't be a prat about it.

And like I said the post I quoted was having a pop at people asking for change. Inwas just countering that if you want to go with that opinion you need to own it, and can't pick and choose who is wrong for complaining and who is right.

ED at launch was how FD chose to balance the game before people complained. Same with engineers in horizons (now THAT was brutal complete with gambling mechanics), same with the cost of ships like the vulture and FDL

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

ED at launch was how FD chose to balance the game before people complained.

ED at launch wasn't exactly setting the gaming world on fire so maybe those people had a point? It's a much better game now.

 

[Hoshizoku]

Ive seen more people leave the game than people wanting the grind in the last few years. (I was in a 400+Member squad)
Gee i got tired of explaining FDevs weird decisions to nearly every new player..
FDev had to switch gears because the playerbase was shrinking to much.
What ever you care about, FDev dont, they care about makin money and this is the way now.
Who knows how "big" the game would be now if they did that earlier.

Well my 2Cents about this topic. Enjoy the discussion folks

 

[Cohen the Worrior]

When I first played this game I recall spending days shooting and trading to earn enough for a Cobra III, then if I did a few missions I could maybe earn enough to upgrade the thrusters or lasers a little bit at a time, eeking out a profit, gleaning a little money here and there to upgrade the ship and keep a little back for trading. There was a real sense of "ducking and diving" and being on a knife-edge.

NOW. Well, I've reset my save and started again because I got bored. I've got a Imperial and either I'm a much better commander, or payouts are just ludicrous. I literally get enough for a/b grade a module for every mission board mission. I earn enough for a Hauler or Adder from many single courier missions, which begs the question why the company didn't just buy a damned ship and take it there themselves! - then there's combat. I - just - assist in taking down a minor league criminal and I get rewarded with enough money to buy a new ship. 20 minutes in a Nav beacon and I "earned" a several hundred thousand. It's like Dog the bounty hunter taking down some guy who didn't pay off his $100 credit card debt, and being rewarded with a new Corvette.

I know why it's been done, but seriously.....

I agree, and this is how I solved that problem.