C'mon, this is faintly ridiculous.

[Noddie]

As I recall, during development fuel had a real cost to it that could be a significant problem on missions and damage was expensive to repair, to the point where sometimes it was cheaper just to buy a new ship. People complained about this (which I get) and the fuel cost was vastly reduced and repair cost vastly reduced, so you basically can't write off a hull with repair costs. That seems a sensible thing to do, really, although at the same time I quite like the idea of art imitating life a bit - most vehicles written off could be repaired but aren't because the cost of doing so is close to the cost of replacing them.

Don't misunderstand me. I don't think the new system is "bad", I just think it's quite comical "Well done, officer dibble, you've brought in Jason the shoplifter who swiped a Beano from Martin's last week .. .Here, have a brand new Ford Focus...", "uh... thanks, sarge....". "Thanks for delivering these bags of compost to the garden centre, white-van-man.. Here, have a Turbocharger for the Transit van", "Uh, thanks. but it's a sprinter...".

 

[Danieros]

Generally when people talk about this subject we DO usually talk about earnings first but what if rebuy costs were multiplied by a factor .. of 20 .. instead?

You'd still be able to progress, as fast as now, relatively quickly, follow the road to riches, good luck to you. But if rebuy costs were really punitive, the game might win back the "balance of progression"?

I feel it's not inherently a bad thing to make credits fast. It's inflation (how rich were you in 1984 with 10 million credits?). But if there's a good Ladder then probably the Snakes should be slippery-er?

It also has the advantage of being a single lever. You could add docking fees, fines in the millions but even that would be simpler than changing a whole list of commodity and mission prices on the earnings side.

I like that, removing the training wheel from the pilot's federation ship insurance, which is amazing that it hasn't gone bankrupt because of it. After you earn the ships there's very few credit spending.

Just to offer a middle ground, though - scale these according to the player's highest rank. So the beginner folks wouldn't feel those increased consequences as much, but those that are at the higher ranks (especially elite), would face the full effect of the reduced insurance and bigger fines/bounties.

 

[Drax Reborn]

You can't retain that early game experience forever, and again, try flying a corvette where even in an hour or two you can't remake your rebuy cost.

I did not mean to retain that 'early' game experience but the fact you can go from a starter ship to a Conda or a Vette in such a short time just removes a lot of playtime. Not that that grinding is expected or should be done, but the moment of 'working hard' to earn the next ship up or that next grade module is gone. I always though that it was a single pilot, alone against the uncaring universe was the heart of the Elite experience.

 

[thelion]

As I recall, during development fuel had a real cost to it that could be a significant problem on missions and damage was expensive to repair, to the point where sometimes it was cheaper just to buy a new ship. People complained about this (which I get) and the fuel cost was vastly reduced and repair cost vastly reduced, so you basically can't write off a hull with repair costs. That seems a sensible thing to do, really, although at the same time I quite like the idea of art imitating life a bit - most vehicles written off could be repaired but aren't because the cost of doing so is close to the cost of replacing them.

Don't misunderstand me. I don't think the new system is "bad", I just think it's quite comical "Well done, officer dibble, you've brought in Jason the shoplifter who swiped a Beano from Martin's last week .. .Here, have a brand new Ford Focus...", "uh... thanks, sarge....". "Thanks for delivering these bags of compost to the garden centre, white-van-man.. Here, have a Turbocharger for the Transit van", "Uh, thanks. but it's a sprinter...".

Bravo old bean, bravo

 

[Winterwalker]

Just to offer a middle ground, though - scale these according to the player's highest rank. So the beginner folks wouldn't feel those increased consequences as much, but those that are at the higher ranks (especially elite), would face the full effect of the reduced insurance and bigger fines/bounties.

Possibly but the idea - behind this thread at least - I think is to slow earlier game progression where you're probably at most Expert rank. So it would make sense for costs to be the highest at Elite (because cumulative) but the punitive increase might be better rising as a logarithmic increase, rather than an exponential or arithmetic one? Costs increasing fast through the early and mid ranks, but making Elite a horrendous thing to be might be a mixed blessing. (The idea behind progressing at all could be "why?" at that point maybe ;p)

Spoiler

 

[Mrc_NorthEast]

Telengard.

Telegard, now there is a great game. Yep you never knew how long each character would last... If you have not already you can track down a copy that will run on Win10. I have a shortcut for it on my desktop. And I do not remember the last time I played it. Thanks for reminding me, I am going to go fire it up.

Ok, back on the current topic of this thread: I do not think being able to earn 5 billion in a years time is too much, in roughly 4 hours of play time per week. I will let someone else do the math for the cr/h. However that would mean I would have to spend a full year doing nothing but grinding credits for a FC, which I will not do. And that does not account for roughly 1 billion to fill the hold of tritium, and another 1 billion roughly for the services and a years worth of weekly upkeep... I believe that is the reason for the inflation and the much higher payouts, but you still have to be elite-elite-elite to get the massive payouts, I am not currently.

And yes I do plan to buy a FC, fill it with Tritium, load in up with services, and head out into the black, with as many ships and modules as I am allowed. No bubble system map carrier spam for me

edited: cause I cant spell

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Fleet carriers are the outlier on cost Tho. On one hand of course a ship that big should cost billions on the other hand you shouldn't wreck the whole economy for them. Which is why they should be salvaged wrecks that we fix up A team style rather than stuff we buy.

(Or make them squadron only content which I personally would not vote for unless there were NPC squadrons we could join.

 

[Caydran]

You can get whatever you like in Elite Dangerous Horizons by setting the "Options/Credits/David Braben/God Mode" to "Enabled".

 

[Crimson Kaim]

Ah, the good old days ...

 

[Christopher Roberto]

Out of curiosity what is it you plan to do when playing the game AFTER all engineers are done.

Well in the immediate future I'd really like to be learning how to fight the various interceptor variants, my Chieftan's all ready to go after a lot of grinding to make the build work, but as the AX CZs are fleeting I feel like I should tediously grind scouts for Lori Jameson while I can in order to minimize that tedium in the long run, especially since combat rank gain rate is under fire. She's the last one I have left.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

Actually most people are simply saying they preferred the game the way it used to be, not suggesting it be reverted to that state. Many people in this thread, myself included, simply enjoyed the initial progression and feel it's a pity that newer players don't have the same opportunities we had.

There's always a contingency of players who say that. Even if a game is a steaming pile at release,they'll say it used to be better.

I made a little list here that people can do to get that "feeling" back and it doesn't require the devs to do more nerfs that people off.

1. Never engineer your ships ever.
2. When the rebuy screen comes up, pick the Sidewinder not Rebuy. Instant "consequences" for dying.
3. Only complete 20 missions a day and never "stack" the same kind.
4. Limit yourself to the Asp Scout and only the Asp Scout for an entire month. Don't skip "progression"!
5. No powerplay/guardian modules.

Call it the self-help guide for those who feel the game should change for them because it's too easy or whatever. I thought of a few more but forgot lol

 

[Caydran]

There's always a contingency of players who say that. Even if a game is a steaming pile at release,they'll say it used to be better.

I made a little list here that people can do to get that "feeling" back and it doesn't require the devs to do more nerfs that people off.

1. Never engineer your ships ever.
2. When the rebuy screen comes up, pick the Sidewinder not Rebuy. Instant "consequences" for dying.
3. Only complete 20 missions a day and never "stack" the same kind.
4. Limit yourself to the Asp Scout and only the Asp Scout for an entire month. Don't skip "progression"!
5. No powerplay/guardian modules.

Call it the self-help guide for those who feel the game should change for them because it's too easy or whatever. I thought of a few more but forgot lol

"Original" Mode. I like it.

 

[Jukelo]

There's always a contingency of players who say that. Even if a game is a steaming pile at release,they'll say it used to be better.

I made a little list here that people can do to get that "feeling" back and it doesn't require the devs to do more nerfs that people off.

1. Never engineer your ships ever.
2. When the rebuy screen comes up, pick the Sidewinder not Rebuy. Instant "consequences" for dying.
3. Only complete 20 missions a day and never "stack" the same kind.
4. Limit yourself to the Asp Scout and only the Asp Scout for an entire month. Don't skip "progression"!
5. No powerplay/guardian modules.

Call it the self-help guide for those who feel the game should change for them because it's too easy or whatever. I thought of a few more but forgot lol

You've described what I do already. It's obviously less than ideal or else I wouldn't be asking for a change. I'd rather play the game I was sold, to the fullest, than have to handicap myself in artificial ways which hurt my enjoyment.

 

[killerofstars]

I did not mean to retain that 'early' game experience but the fact you can go from a starter ship to a Conda or a Vette in such a short time just removes a lot of playtime. Not that that grinding is expected or should be done, but the moment of 'working hard' to earn the next ship up or that next grade module is gone. I always though that it was a single pilot, alone against the uncaring universe was the heart of the Elite experience.

Elite isn't "One pilot struggling to survive." It's a game of progression, from a one pilot struggling to survive, to the captain of a large vessel, making his way across the galaxy.

If you want a progression curve more like the early game progression, they need to flatten out the cost of later game items where they cost totally absurd amounts of credits compared to early game ships. Even so, I'm tired of people whining about how much money they make just because later on they feel like they lack challenges. Take on more challenging jobs, engage in more dangerous pursuits. Believe me, they exist.

 

[M00ka]

Elite isn't "One pilot struggling to survive." It's a game of progression, from a one pilot struggling to survive, to the captain of a large vessel, making his way across the galaxy.

If you want a progression curve more like the early game progression, they need to flatten out the cost of later game items where they cost totally absurd amounts of credits compared to early game ships. Even so, I'm tired of people whining about how much money they make just because later on they feel like they lack challenges. Take on more challenging jobs, engage in more dangerous pursuits. Believe me, they exist.

The thing is a lot of those 'people' you are talking about have already done most of the main activities in the game, they have explored to the outer reaches of the galaxy, they have fought Thargoids, they have flipped systems, they own every ship, often multiple versions of the same ship just to find a use for all their credits. Some have even reset their accounts, starting afresh but because they know the game they can't just act like a newbie, it doesn't work like that. But what they are finding that whatever they do they are earning obscene amounts of credits.

Now I am not in that class but I just finished a very simple 'mining' mission. The faction wanted 675T of Bertrandite, the mission was ranked Elite and the reward was 50,000,000 credits. Because I am a smart player and I know my own little sphere of space, I knew that one of the systems 16ly away have 5 stations that all sell Bertrandite (and at a price below average). So two quick runs in my Corvette, four destroyed Deady/Dangerous Anaconda's (which netted me an additional 2,160,000 credits in the bonus plus around another 5,000,000 or so in bounties and the mission was done. Second run back with with half a hold full of silver, can't fly empty right. Total time was around 20 minutes, mainly waiting for the damn Anacondas to spawn and not run away (one waked out twice as soon as I opened fire, damn chicken livered NPCs lol). Total profit was just over 50m. The thing is I could have damn near doubled that by stacking additional high value fetch missions, going out in the Mamba first to get rid of any mission generated targets, then take the Cutter (704T versus 400T for the Vette). I know from experience that for roughly the same amount of time I could have easily made 75-90M credits. And I am taking the biggest challenge for that type of mission, the are Elite rated and have more than better chance of generating mission ships plus the odd random Elite T10 that seems to drop in on the fun. Sure I could do these in an unshielded T9 whilst wearing a blindfold with the screen turned off, but that is just a bit silly isn't it!

Moral of the story, just because you think there are dangerous pursuits out there doesn't mean they are considered dangerous to someone else.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

There's always a contingency of players who say that. Even if a game is a steaming pile at release,they'll say it used to be better.

I made a little list here that people can do to get that "feeling" back and it doesn't require the devs to do more nerfs that people off.

Wow... Wasn't it you belittling the players by accusing them of "change the game to make me feel special"

But now you are saying players who liked the game BEFORE it was changed (largely because of whining) are oddballs who enjoy playing steaming piles of Pooh.

So what you are really saying is ...Make changes but only if they are ones I like... And if they are not then the players asking for changes are whining weirdos trying to spoil your game.

Got it!.
Hypocrite much?
BTW the entire pitch FD made about self publishing ED was because they knew a major publisher would demand changes to make ED fit a generic trend to appeal to the masses.

Where as they (claimed at the time) that they knew Elite was a niche franchise but DB wanted to make it the game he wanted to play without being Watered down to appeal to the passing player who wanted to put a few 100 hrs in and be done.

IF FD had fulfilled their original pitch and the game was failing I may see your point.... But the game still is missing a lot of the features and so I feel could get better even WITH a robust economy.

 

[Commander Biscuit]

1. Never engineer your ships ever.
2. When the rebuy screen comes up, pick the Sidewinder not Rebuy. Instant "consequences" for dying.
3. Only complete 20 missions a day and never "stack" the same kind.
4. Limit yourself to the Asp Scout and only the Asp Scout for an entire month. Don't skip "progression"!
5. No powerplay/guardian modules.

Call it the self-help guide for those who feel the game should change for them because it's too easy or whatever. I thought of a few more but forgot lol

Self imposed rules are the way to go when playing a game that's too easy and isn't moddable. For some reason, Elite players don't want to make the game harder for themselves, they want the devs to force them into it. Some kind of fetish or something, I'm not sure. They'd probably still complain after getting what they wanted anyway. Humans amirite?

 

[M00ka]

There's always a contingency of players who say that. Even if a game is a steaming pile at release,they'll say it used to be better.

I made a little list here that people can do to get that "feeling" back and it doesn't require the devs to do more nerfs that people off.

1. Never engineer your ships ever.
2. When the rebuy screen comes up, pick the Sidewinder not Rebuy. Instant "consequences" for dying.
3. Only complete 20 missions a day and never "stack" the same kind.
4. Limit yourself to the Asp Scout and only the Asp Scout for an entire month. Don't skip "progression"!
5. No powerplay/guardian modules.

Call it the self-help guide for those who feel the game should change for them because it's too easy or whatever. I thought of a few more but forgot lol

Wouldn't an easier option be:

1. Don't go on the forums, REDDIT or Facebook then you will never know how good or bad you are going.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Self imposed rules are the way to go when playing a game that's too easy and isn't moddable. For some reason, Elite players don't want to make the game harder for themselves, they want the devs to force them into it. Some kind of fetish or something, I'm not sure. They'd probably still complain after getting what they wanted anyway. Humans amirite?

I have a lot of self impose rules. It is why even after over 2500hrs i still have a bank balance under 250 mil..... But it is.getting harder and harder to dodge the watering down of the economy without simply NOT doing anything in game or without deliberately doing stuff badly.

My in game character WANTS to earn his fortune as quick as possible.
My out of game player WANTS the game to give me hurdles to achieve that goal . Is thar really so hard to understand.?
Resetting my save or ejecting half of my money in canisters of gold is just not a good game mechanic.

 

[Commander Biscuit]

My out of game player WANTS the game to give me hurdles to achieve that goal . Is thar really so hard to understand.?

Sure I have problems with it a lot, but I mostly play single player games. But demanding a game like Elite be more tedious is something that affects everyone. So in cases like Elite, FD has to think about everyone that plays the game and not just those that want to struggle more.

FD do a lot of data collection on this stuff, and doubtless have found better player retention when progressing through ships doesn't take as long as it used to. That's why things are they way they are. Still, for long time players, the credit sink of FC's was introduced. Despite that, and despite no longer having a dog in the fight, you still see people petitioning for the early game experience to be as tedious for new players as it used to be for them.